PSA: Incredibly Rare Alfa Romeo Berlina For Sale

"Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available" (whoistheleader2)
11/03/2020 at 13:22 • Filed to: unnecessary car shopping without E90M3, Alfa Romeo Berlina

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I have to find out more about this car. I doubt you would be able to find another Alfa Romeo Berlina for sale anywhere near here so you’d better jump on this one.

Here’s the full ad:

71 Berlina with 2000cc engine. Very solid project car. I recently had the dellortos rebuilt. Needs fine tuning. Brakes iffy. Bring a trailer.Body very solid. Minor rust spots on door bottoms. Bill of sale only. Comes with spare trunk lid. Serious inquiries only please. If ad is up it’s still for sale.

The paint seems a little rough, perhaps rougher than you would expect given the clearcoat peel seems to date it to being an older respray, but the body seems to be in great condition.

Not much rust from the underbody pictures and the drivetrain seems fully intact. Parts will obviously be hard to source but I assume it has quite a lot of commonality with the relatively common Alfa Romeo Spiders.

And all the unobtanium interior bits appear to be present. You could do a lot worse for $7,500 for a rare and classy ride. I also love the Alfa dash mounted shifter.

Here’s a better picture of one that doesn’t have terrible compression:

While digging up more information on US market Berlinas I found this website dedicated to the cars.

http://www.berlinaregister.com/

Their description of the car is reassuring for being able to keep it on the road, citing parts commonality with cars with aftermarket support.

In style and general arrangement, the Berlina was based heavily on the Giulia sedan, though the body was restyled, by Marcello Gandini at Bertone . The Giulia had been styled in-house by Alfa Romeo. By modern standards, the Berlina would probably be considered a restyle of the Giulia, rather than a new model, because the mechanical components are functionally identical and interchangeable, and because the basic structure is very similar, the only significant change being an additional two inches in the wheelbase.

In general, the major components of the Berlina, including the engine, transmission, brakes, suspension, drivetrain, electrical systems, and switches and controls, are identical with those same components of the contemporary GTV and Spider models. However, the body, interior, lighting, details, and trim of the Berlina will be distinct from the GTV and Spider in most cases. And a few items, related to the longer chassis of the Berlina, such as the exhaust system, fuel lines, parking brake cable, and driveshaft, are identical in concept, but slight longer and different in execution, than in the two-door models.

So what say you, Oppo? $7,500 for a good driving piece of Alfa history? The price is towards the top end of what the Alfa Berlina Register says the car is worth but where are you going to find another one?

DISCUSSION (47)

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 13:40

MUCH WANT! Bill of Sale only means no title though...? :/

If so, that makes it useless here in Canada as it could never be registered. At least here in Nova Scotia, a title is required.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
11/03/2020 at 13:45

There’s no process to title a car with a BoS?

I think most, if not all, US states have some process (since each state is different, some are more byzantine than others) to use the BoS to obtain a title. The system is expressly for cars like there where, due to age, neglect, etc. there is no title available.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 13:45

> Bill of sale only

Hard pass

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
11/03/2020 at 13:47

You can get a title re-issued from a bill of sale in a US state and then transfer that to a Canadian title though. I wouldn’t mind holding on to it until you drive down and pick it up along with that Fiat 500 outside the restaurant in Midtown ;)

I mean, where are you going to find another Berlina body that solid? I saw no notable rust in the underbody photos.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Snuze: Needs another Swede
11/03/2020 at 13:51

Surely once a title is lost the car doesn’t become worthless, right? Perhaps a different province could issue a title that could be transferred?

MandatoryCake > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 13:51

As the owner of a 1969 European market 1750 Berlina, I can say with confidence that these cars are a blast. Small, light, comfortable and with a lot of the lovely handling characteristics of much more expensive GTVs. Parts tend to be quite available (you’re right that they share a lot with every other Alfa of the period) from Centerline in Colorado and Classic Alfa and Alfaholics in the UK. OKP in Germany has body panels for most Alfas. This one looks like it’ll need rust repair in the typical spots (rockers and doors etc) which can get very expensive fast, but it doesn’t look un- drivable by any means. Also, has carbs instead of the spica fuel injection system that US cars got and is a bit more complicated to set up. Very cool car for not a ton of money if you have some mechanical ability to sort the stuff that needs attention.

Kinja'd!!!

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
11/03/2020 at 13:51

And you are going to find another Berlina where exactly? A title can be reissued even if it is not the easiest thing to get done.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 13:59

My Dad’s family had one of these as a new car in the 70's when he was of driving age. Said it was an interesting car, and as unreliable as to be expected. Being New Mexico, they referred to it as a more regionally appropriate moniker of the Alfred Romero.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 14:00

Seems like the metal worms have got to it a bit, not terrible, but this thing will need the full body and paint makeover. I guess I’m not sure what a perfect one goes for so I can’t say if it’s worth it. If they’re 100,000 dollars, then go for it. If a perfect one is 20,000 I’ d say pass.

Kinja'd!!!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 14:01

I don’t know Canadian law, but I’m sure there is a way to get a title. If you throw enough paperwork at something, anything can happen (eventually)!

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > MandatoryCake
11/03/2020 at 14:16

Thanks for weighing in. It appears to very similar to a Giulia but obscure enough to be less valuable from what I understand. How do they stack up to the contemporary Giulia and even the Spiders in handling/driving enjoyment? Because I just love how these things look too. Good to hear they have a larger parts network than I initially expected. Fortunately the unobtanium interior and trim bits all appear to be present and in good condition.

I do think this one is a bit overpriced for the attention it needs. Paint, rust repair (mostly on the panels it seems) , mechanical overhaul (maybe?), and a new title. But you also want only someone who will really appreciate it to buy it so I get it.

By the way, give Party-Vi a shout in the comments of this post and he’ll give you posting rights to Oppo if you like. It’s a great community here and I’d love to learn more about yo ur Berlina.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/i-a-glutton-for-punishment-want-you-to-be-on-opposit-1844164784

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI
11/03/2020 at 14:20

I think the main problem is finding one for sale at all. Paint and body work is expensive and this one seems a little too rough on the exterior for what they are asking.

I do think the price is a bit optimistic but the rust seems to be almost only on the panels. The underbody photos didn’t show anything that I could see on the frame and floors.

Kinja'd!!!

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
11/03/2020 at 14:23

I wonder how many of them actually survived. For a long time they were just cheap old cars that weren’t well suited to daily transport. That said, they share a lot with Alfa Spiders and those are pretty well understood mechanically.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 14:23

There’s been a much nicer one for sale forever up the road in Lompoc... $17,500.

Don’t know if he finally got a taker.

old-busted-hotness-still-cant-comment > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 14:28

Maybe the rust came from driving it across a weir, chasing some Mini Coopers loaded with stolen gold?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
11/03/2020 at 14:30

That is a whole lot more than this one but once you factor in the cost of repainting it and replacement panels for the slightly rusty ones (the actual frame is very solid) it is probably pretty close. Not sure of the mechanical condition of this one.

$17,500 is in the territory of much more desirable and well known cars similar in form and function though.

I even found this rusty GTV for the same price.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/alfa-romeo/gtv/2406342.html

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > old-busted-hotness-still-cant-comment
11/03/2020 at 14:31

I have never seen The Italian Job . I should fix that.

MandatoryCake > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 14:38

Spot-on - they’re sort of a weirder rarer Giulia and trade hands for less. For example, my Berlina is pretty well sorted and very original and has (almost) no rust (impossible to know without cutting into the rockers/sills) and I paid mid-20s. A Giulia super in similar condition would be at least 10k more. Berlinas are several inches longer than Giulias so they handle a little slower and more stately (they were the executive class car). On the highway my Berlina is more planted and less of a handful than my Giulia, but on tight turns at speed, it feels slower and like I have to wrestle a bit more. You definitely feel the length behind you more in a Berlina o n tight twisty roads than in the Giulia. That said, both are a ton of fun and get way more attention than cars that cost 10x as much. I haven’t done enough miles in spiders to speak knowledgeably about the differences.

If you’re after more info or looking for one, I’d recommend the AlfaBB.com classifieds. Pretty sure there’s a perfect Berlina in Vancouver for sale on there now. I general, I’d recommend buying the very best one you can find because you’ll quickly eclipse the purchase price of a great one in rust repair on a bad one unless you are gonna do the work yourself.

I’ll try to get some posting rights and post about my Alfas. It’s kind of a problem (but a fun one)!

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > MandatoryCake
11/03/2020 at 14:51

I don’t think a slightly more stable and composed ride is necessarily a bad thing. I’m sure it is still plenty lively for a weekend cruiser but would make longer drives a little more appetizing. Being the executive saloon, does it have more sound insulation, better NVH, and nicer interior materials than the Giulia?

It’s also interesting to say you feel the length and then compare it to a modern Giulia in length. Google says l ength is 163.0 in and a modern one has a length of 182.5 inches. 20 inches shorter is a whole lot. Modern cars are just frickin’ enormous.

less of a handful than my Giulia

post about my Alfa s

Multiple Alfas! Do tell!

I don’t think Vancouver is somewhere I could make the trek out to for a wallet ruiner. I’m a broke college kid in Georgia so any Alfa is probably not advisable. I will be replacing my Chevy Cruze soon but I can’t afford a cheap Alfa. Pictured, my car:

Kinja'd!!!

Yes, please gift us with photos of your Alfas if you have the time. This community is great and I know we have some Alfa enthusiasts here.

MandatoryCake > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 15:13

Sorry, I thought you meant the Giulia that was contemporary with the Berlina. I was comparing my 69 Berlina to my 75 Giulia Nuova Super (very similar to Giulias going back to mid-60s). The modern Giulia could not be more different! I drove a friend’s 2018 quadrifoglio and it was hilariously fast but too quick to have much fun without quickly being in illegal/foolish territory.

I really can’t recommend vintage Alfas enough once you have a few bucks to throw at an old car that isn’t a daily driver. They’re really cheap to buy and maintain compared to other classics (looking at you, Porsche), the community is great and very unserious in a good way, and parts are not too hard to get and even fools like me can do most of the maintenance. Also, they’re remarkably reliable if maintained properly (despite the cliches).

Here’s a pic of my Giulia and Berlina on the ends and a Giulia in the middle that is owned by the guy who runs the Berlina register website (a super nice guy and easily among the most knowledgeable Alfa people out there).

Kinja'd!!!

MandatoryCake > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 15:16

As for noise, etc. the sound deadening is minimal and not great in both cars and the interior materials are really similar My Berlina has wool/velour seats because it was a Euro model and that was an option. The Giulia has vinyl, which is the same that the Berlina got if you didn’t pick cloth.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 15:23

I bought a re-titled car once.

Once.

Not a difficult process, but it is a hard rule for me.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
11/03/2020 at 15:24

Harsh but fair.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > MandatoryCake
11/03/2020 at 15:41

Oh, that is really a wonderful photo. Just some classic Alfas hanging out in the shade. I imagine quite a few of the Giulias here were imported from Europe as the knowledge and enthusiasm required to keep them from the scrap heap wasn’t very widespread in the US.

compa ring my 69 Berlina to my 75 Giulia Nuova Super

Are those the only two Alfas you currently own? I especially have a soft spot for the 60s-70s Alfa Romeo sedans. There’s just something about their styling. I love the way they do the rear end treatment especially. Just something about the proportions too.

My personal experience with Alfas is pretty much just sitting in a modern Giulia and Stelvio at the Atlanta International Auto Show a few years back and the modern ones are shockingly tiny on the inside. I rarely see them on the road and I’ve never seen a Quadri folgio on the street. I’m always surprised by how many more Stelvios I seem to see than Giulias. That’s one case where the extra interior room really makes a difference.

As much as I love classic Alfas, if I wanted to drive a slow car fast for not too much money, I’d look to the French.

Kinja'd!!!

I’ve only ever seen a few classic Citroens in person (two 2CVs and an HY Van food truck) but I really am quite in love with them. Even more so after I sat in one at a car show a few years ago. I have yet to see a DS or SM though.

And I definitely need to learn some mechanical skills if I hope to one day own a classic. I’ve not done anything more demanding than an oil change on my Cruze but I want to branch out into trying to do some more maintenance items myself. I bought brake pads to change but I left for college before I tried.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 15:47

I only noted it because it ALWAYS turned up on all the usual sites in every search for Alfas in the area. Obviously too much for the market, but it had zero rust and interior in great shape.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 15:48

The original. The only...

My friends in Italy detest the Marky-Mark Remake.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
11/03/2020 at 15:54

Any idea of where I could watch it?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish
11/03/2020 at 15:55

But too much for the market. I also think this rough one I posted about is too much for the market. Because they're a more obscure and less desirable Giulia basically with less sportiness.

MandatoryCake > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 16:54

Yeah, I think a lot of Alfas in the US rusted away and were sent to the crusher because owners were pretty much unsupported by the factory or importers. Alfa never really worked to build strong dealer networks and parts suppliers in the 60s and 70s. Old Alfa guys talk about how much easier it is now than 50 years ago to get parts and decent knowledge. I’m in Berkeley CA where there’s always been an Alfa (and weird foreign car) scene, so I’m a bit spoiled. As of now, I have those two Alfas and an 82 Mercedes 240D 4 speed, which is comically slow (67 HP when new!) and pretty much the opposite of an Alfa.

French cars, especially Citroens, are extremely cool and the 2CV is probably the embodiment of driving slow cars fast. There used to be a great video on YouTube of pre-Top Gear Chris Harris reviewing his 2CV and it’s a riot to watch him chuck it into turns at top speed. SMs and DSs are really amazing vehicles and brilliant examples of Citroen’s engineering prowess, but in my opinion lack some of the quirky charm that the 2CV and HY have. I hope you get to see some in person because they are somehow even more unbelievable than in photos. Here’s an SM that was at the Monterey Historics a few years ago - the hood vent is too cool.

Kinja'd!!!

Most of the mechanical stuff I know is just from watching videos and reading forums and asking guys I know and then doing a lot of trial and error and swearing a lot! Brake pads are a great place to start because it’s a very achievable repair and if you’re like me you’ll feel like a hero for having done it and like a genius for having not paid someone else. Older cars are less intimidating than new ones to me because no computers and you can usually just look at something and know what it does (and often have room to reach it).

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > MandatoryCake
11/03/2020 at 17:22

Once you leave SoCal support for quirky foreign antiques pretty much vanishes. I am not surprised at all the owner of two Alfas lives in Berkley. I’ve never been out west, or really north either, but at the very least I live in a pretty good place for spotting rare and unusual stuff. You get the proximity to Europe for some of the imported stuff on that front and there’s enough money around Atlanta for at least a few people to have the means and the desire (Automobile Atlanta is the Porsche 914 place and is a ton of fun to visit). Though most people just donk perfectly good classics for literally no reason.

Believe me, you are spoiled with the West Coast lowrider scene. The donk scene in Atlanta is kinda obnoxious sometimes. Lowriders are a rare treat compared to the usual fare of bro trucks, ruined Polaris RZRs, random inner city quad bike stunts, and ruined classic American boats.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/the-worlds-largest-drive-in-fast-food-restaurant-on-a-s-1844972765

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/i-like-lowriders-and-donks-can-suck-it-1844750289

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/dots-poor-poor-gladiator-edition-1844986271

Kinja'd!!!

I couldn’t believe my eyes when this food truck parked up only a short walk away. My brother sent the location to me not knowing I’d drop everything and rush there.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/citroen-hy-van-food-truck-on-campus-1844930157

Kinja'd!!!

Hydropneumatic Citroens are a whole other ball game than the more crude 2CV and HY Vans (plus things like the Ami and other 2CV derivatives). The SM has got to be one of my favorite cars of all time but I’ve never seen one. Someday, someday.

I really want to make the trek up to the Lane Motor Museum in Nashville. I was supposed to make it in time for their Citroen Centenary celebration but COVID put the kibosh on that one.

I’ve watched a few videos on brake pad replacement but I don’t have a great place to work or good tools. My floor jack is so crap I have to drive on wooden blocks to get it under the front air dam. At least I have rear drums so I can’t take out the entire braking system at once. I enjoy doing hands on stuff but I haven’t built up enough confidence to try much mechanical stuff. At least I have some mechanically minded family friends who might be able to rescue me.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Snuze: Needs another Swede
11/03/2020 at 18:59

There might be, but if there is, I am not aware of it, at least here in Nova Scotia!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
11/03/2020 at 20:34

https://www.reddit.com/r/halifax/comments/65drda/registering_a_motorcycle_with_no_papers/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

This is with regards to a motorcycle, but I imagine the process is similar.

RacinBob > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 23:06

$7500 For a Berlina that is intact seems like a steal. Granted you could buy a better spider for less but hey it is an acquired taste. I owned a 69 and regretted selling it about 30 years ago. If it was a BMW it would be 30k.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > RacinBob
11/03/2020 at 23:10

If it were a Giulia it would be worth a good bit more. They are basically a less sporty and more obscure executive version of the Giulia from what I understand so the price seems about right. You wouldn’t see another one on the road, that’s for sure. Very solid body with a few easily fixable spots of rust on the panels but none on the frame. Needs a repaint but that’s built into the price and the perfect interior makes up for that. I really am loving this thing.

RacinBob > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 23:11

Ps it is a stupid ironic fact that I am driving through Atlanta tomorrow but no as tempting as it is the 74 Spider is enough Alfas for me

RacinBob > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 23:12

However it would make an excellent vintage car.....

RacinBob > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/03/2020 at 23:16

By the way, if you are going to garage it so when did a little Bondo on a $7500 CAR become a horrible thing?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > RacinBob
11/03/2020 at 23:20

No one will know except you and the rust can be neutralized without any long term issues.

I mean you could pick it up tomorrow as you drive through. Hehehehehe. Oppo is such a bad influence but do it! You can never have too many Alfas.

RacinBob > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/04/2020 at 18:44

Go to Bring a trailer for recent listing. Granted this one probably needs work but they sell for a lot more than 7500

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > RacinBob
11/04/2020 at 19:03

Sadly I cannot take in an obscure Alfa in the near future considering this is basically the very top of my budget for a car that I actually need to drive long distances every day. I'll probably be replacing my Cruze soon so I can get something more fun but I can't quite go that extreme.

RacinBob > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
11/04/2020 at 21:40

Yep, that Berlina is not a real car. You would probably spend 2k just on getting the brakes and fuel system to current working condition. You can’t trust 50 year old rubber. It is a very neat car and could be a cool vintage racer but unless you are willing to spend a lot of sweat equity it makes no sense. Plus driving it 365 would be kind of a waste of a 50 year survivor.

How about a Mazda 3 sdn? Or a civic si?

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > RacinBob
11/04/2020 at 22:23