"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
10/31/2020 at 10:34 • Filed to: None
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"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
10/31/2020 at 10:34 • Filed to: None | 1
| 19 |
This was sort of interesting. This sort of gimmickry might do something for a car with a poorly designed air intake setup, but with engineers these days tweaking every iota of performance and efficiency out of the newest engines, maybe better to trust the engineers?
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vondon302
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 10:41 |
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All the low hanging fruit has already been picked in this day and age.
facw
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 10:43 |
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Yeah, I’m quite sure that if you could get more power even if it’s only like 2% more from using a slightly more expensive air filter setup without any downsides beyond cost, every manufacturer would be doing so from the factory.
Wacko
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 10:50 |
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It’s not the filter that gives more power it’s the K&N sticker that gives +5hp
Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 10:55 |
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Some cars can benefit from a CAI, depending on the shape and flow of the OEM, if they also get a tune to tell the ECU that there’s more air available to breathe
KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 10:57 |
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I switched to an AFE dry, washable filter mainly because I wanted a lifetime one that removes need for regular replacement , a nd I swear it gets extra +10HP per my butt-dyno
Roadkilled
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 10:58 |
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If you are going to add forced induction to a naturally aspirated engine, or if you are going to boost the pressure on a turbocharged or supercharged engine, there is a rationale for increasing the airflow.
However, many people conflate the new filter alone with the increased power. I would guess that they go to car shows and see engines with these filters and then assume that the filter is giving the car more power.
Jb boin
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 11:04 |
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As i answered there (still grayed out...) :
I think that the differences on a stock engine will be minimal as the ECU will already limit power/intake air quantity to a certain level that the stock filter should be good enough for.
Stock maps are made in a way that even with high outside air temperature and a dirty (within normal use) filter, the car would still keep similar performances as average car users would not understand/like if a car is behaving differently from one day to another or simply between day and night during summer.
With a remapped car, it is trying to get as much performance (and thus airflow) as possible which might become limited by the maximal flow the OEM panel would allow, being dirty only making it worse.
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Jb boin
> facw
10/31/2020 at 11:09 |
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Manufacturers think about the maintenance cost and simplicity as well, having a 4 0€ panel to clean every year or so it more annoying than swapping a 4 € one .
HammerheadFistpunch
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 11:14 |
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My experience with CAI is that it’ s about “sick induction noise” and perceived benefit, and not much else, at least on a stock setup.
Fun side note: Toyota offers a washable factory filter for my car, I bought it and I am very happy with it.
Aside from the heat issues, this is the best airbox in the history of airboxes.
VincentMalamute-Kim
> HammerheadFistpunch
10/31/2020 at 11:24 |
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“Do Not Beat The Filter” - so says the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Filters.
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facw
> Jb boin
10/31/2020 at 11:26 |
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They do, but HP numbers are a big selling point on the car, not a place to cheap out when inexpensive improvements could give you a little more. Also, while manufacturers aren’t going to makes something difficult to service just because, it’s also not lost on them that their dealers make money on those services. Higher service requirements are only annoying to the manufacturer to the extent that they cost sales, and most buyers aren’t paying anywhere near enough attention to what maintenance is required when they buy a car.
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Jb boin
> facw
10/31/2020 at 11:45 |
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They will sell at the same price a service that requires just a panel change rather than a cleaning but it’s less work and less risk of doing anything wrong .
From what i recall from various tests, paper filters have the tendency to loose more power when getting dirty than foam filters even if they start up close in term of restriction when clean.
A s i told in another comment, there will be more potential gain if the car is remapped (or with more mods) as the original filter/airbox are designed to be good enough for the standard map airflow and might be restrictive if going over that .
Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 12:22 |
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The only thing I liked about the one that come on my old Civic was that someone replaced the intake tube(?) as well so they point of intake was high in the engine bay and I was able to drive through standing water that plagued my winter commute with no worries.
Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 12:22 |
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Completely anecdotal, but I went from a K&N back to the stock intake on my 4Runner a couple of months ago. I had never driven it with the stock intake, but I wish I had have made it stock sooner. I gained a very noticeable amount of midrange power, and it also is SIGNIFICANTLY quieter.
notsomethingstructural
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 14:28 |
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Even if a K&N gives you 3.5 hp, $10/hp is unbelievably cheap by tuner standards.
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notsomethingstructural
> notsomethingstructural
10/31/2020 at 14:34 |
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Like, a stillen 370z supercharger adds about 130 whp, but it costs $7,000 in parts (plus labor) so it’s a good $75-100/hp, or 10 times more than a cleanable filter.
Exage03040 @ opposite-lock.com
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 14:41 |
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It’s variable based on a number of different factors. The important thing is to figure out if it improves your vehicle. F
or most vehicles it’s minuscule at best. In terms of
relevancy
:
I don’t give a toss what CAI does on another car, and you probably don’t really care what it does on mine... For the sake of interest in the subject though:
I do run a CAI on the beater. And this is because it’s an outlier with
the air intake setup
for a 1ZZ-FE engine with 25% less power than the 2ZZ-GE. Between the intake and the exhaust the engine made 10bhp less compared with the Celica from factory spec. Even without touching anything else, it does bump up the power with better air supply
volume simply
through better
flow
.
When it comes to modding, there will be a point pretty quick where you’ll at least want to go with a high flow filter at the minimum or swap out the intake design. Guys doing ECU tuning don’t have to run factory diameter intake or exhaust as they’re not bound to the engine map and associated sensor parameters based on pipe diameters. So if they’re running other modifications to increase air volume (and fuel) into the engine (heads/valves, cam(s), throttle body, manifolds, forced induction, bore, crank, engine swap) they can bump up diameters to suit the power and need for increased air volume for the engine and associated correction for flow.
It’s one of these topics I find slightly annoying because people get into arguments with very little
subject knowledge
. Neither are usually wrong they just won’t ever have explored fluid dynamics as it pertain
s
to air flow
to ever square up their arguments
.
wafflesnfalafel
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
10/31/2020 at 18:53 |
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I’ve only tried an aftermarket filter once - and the result was noticeably worse than stock, (seat of the pants feel and gas mileage) , not better - so I think you are right.
i86hotdogs
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
11/01/2020 at 22:57 |
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Regardless of power bump or not, I equip all my vehicles with a K&N. Mostly for the ease of maintenance. I’ll clean mine 2-3 times per year, and whenever I come from a dusty rallycross weekend.
That, and mentally I think it adds power so I’ll buy in to it every time. You could show me a million dyno sheets and I’ll still think it adds power.