News on Tuatara

"chaozbandit" (chaozbandit)
10/28/2020 at 13:00 • Filed to: None

The official statement by DEWETRON to any world record attempts of SSC Tuatara captured on video by Top Gear

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DEWETRONis an Austrian manufacturer for high precision test and measurement equipment and developer of intuitive measurement software. Our data acquisition systems meet the highest demands and comply with international norms and standards. Therefore, many customers around the globe rely on DEWETRON’s products which always provide extremely reliable and traceable results. Despite the information published on the website of SSC North America as well as on several related and non-related YouTube channels, DEWETRON did not validate any data from world record attempts or preceding tests. Nobody of DEWETRON’s employees was present during the test drive or involved in the associated preparations. Since the results of measurement data highly rely on the right setup, on the regular calibration of the systems and sensors in use as well as on many other parameters, we are not able to guarantee the accuracy or correctness of the outcome. As of this moment, DEWETRON did not receive the measurement file of the test drive. As a result of the absence during the test drive paired with the missing data, DEWETRON is not able to make any further statements about the world record attempt under question.

...

Therefore, we again want to highlight that DEWETRON neither approved nor validated any test results. No DEWETRON employee was present during the record attempt or its preparations.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

DISCUSSION (33)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > chaozbandit
10/28/2020 at 13:21

Hmm...

Not the greatest way to comment on a customer’s claim, but guess they felt like they had to speak up.

“Despite the information published on the website of SSC North America...”

https://www.sscnorthamerica.com/news/dewetron-validates-ssc-tuatara-record-top-speed

“Since the results of measurement data highly rely on the right setup, on the regular calibration of the systems and sensors in use as well as on many other parameters, we are not able to guarantee the accuracy or correctness of the outcome.”

I wonder what percentage error is possible without the right setup.

chaozbandit > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/28/2020 at 13:26

MT seems to have backtracked on their article as well

https://www.motortrend.com/news/ssc-tuatara-top-speed-record-gps-validation/

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > chaozbandit
10/28/2020 at 13:31

On October 22, Dewetron sent a letter to SSC confirming the accuracy of the equipment and speed sensor they had provided to SSC, and that letter will also be submitted to Guinness as part of application for the world top speed record.

As an additional step, SSC is in the process of submitting the Dewetron equipment and speed sensor for further analysis and verification of that equipment’s accuracy.

If the first paragraph is true, it will be interesting to see what the second paragraph yields.

Dewetron clearly cares WAY more about their reputation than keeping SSC a happy customer. And they’re getting some free publicity out of this that they’d never had gotten otherwise.

chaozbandit > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/28/2020 at 13:37

Interesting. From what I recall, Koenigsegg still prefers to use the more traditional Racelogic/Vbox and Aim dataloggers, as is the case in motorsports as well .

Time to wait and see how due dilligence plays out.

gettingoldercarguy > chaozbandit
10/28/2020 at 13:43

These guys didn’t pay our very reasonable undisclosed fee to validate the claims. We’re firing a shot at a small customer to insert doubt into their results. Big customers, listen up. Pay our fucking fee or your results will be illegitimate.

P.S. VAG - we got your back. Screw the Americans.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > chaozbandit
10/28/2020 at 13:46

DEWETRON is manufacturer of customizable DAQ measurement systems, precision data acquisition instruments, signal conditioning amplifier...

kanadanmajava1 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/28/2020 at 13:48

I don’t really doubt that the SSC guys have faked their record attempt but their PR department could have used different words. They wrote:

“DEWETRON Validates SSC Tuatara Record Top Speed”

But they were likely trying to say.

“DEWETRON’s data logging device was used to Validate SSC Tuatara‘s Record Top Speed”

The difference might appear to be small but it is not. Making the device responsible for the validation is a very different thing than making the Dewetron as a company to be responsible.

But with their wording they did force Dewetron to respond to the claim with a slightly hostile tone.

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > chaozbandit
10/28/2020 at 13:50

I really hope they did it and that all of this is just a misunderstanding.

I wonder how much it cost SSC to do the first run? If it wasn’t insane, why not just go do it again? Load that bitch up with sensors and data loggers and give it hell....

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > kanadanmajava1
10/28/2020 at 13:52

Sounds like Mr. Shelby needs to slow down just a beat and work on the quality control over PR & marketing and not just the car.

No publicity is bad publicity? Yet to be determined...

gettingoldercarguy > chaozbandit
10/28/2020 at 13:52

I’m glad to see all Bonneville records are bullshit too.

gettingoldercarguy > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI
10/28/2020 at 13:54

Depending on manpower employed I’d wager between 200k and 500k.

gettingoldercarguy > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/28/2020 at 14:01

How easy is it to spoof data from Dewetron vs other systems?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > gettingoldercarguy
10/28/2020 at 14:03

No clue.

I don’t think it was spoofed, but if it wasn’t recently calibrated, or corrected for test conditions, it could put a cloud of uncertainty over the record.

gettingoldercarguy > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/28/2020 at 14:05

“ We weren’t there, we can’t comment on the accuracy of the data.” Is what they should've said. They didn’t say that though. I think both parties could be more impartial.

gettingoldercarguy > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/28/2020 at 14:07

Was a similar shitstorm raised for other manufacturers using less reliable systems? It's odd.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > gettingoldercarguy
10/28/2020 at 14:09

Yeah, the tone was interesting. Clearly, they took issue with SSC appearing to claim something that they didn’t do, but it’s surprising that they used this tone with possibly their most famous client.

Did a discussion happen behind the scenes, or did he go straight to press release? Just seems strange.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > gettingoldercarguy
10/28/2020 at 14:12

I don’t care about all the amateur sleuths saying whatever for their YouTube audiences, but a public refutation (of details of what was reported by SSC , not of the record itself) by the head of the company who produced the instrument makes me take notice.

gettingoldercarguy > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
10/28/2020 at 14:22

I’m aware of companies protecting their cash cow. And that’s service and support for almost everybody. Ssc may be the most famous publicly known, but probably one of the smallest. It makes sense to fire a warning shot like this even if it does cost them their relationship.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > gettingoldercarguy
10/28/2020 at 14:26

I guess, but I sure hope that they at least attempted to contact and discuss changing SSC’s press release before just releasing their own.

Makes me wonder if they’d been in talks before the record attempt, Dewetron said they wanted to be there to do the setup, and SSC told them that they’d just take care of it themselves.

SSC mentions C ovid limitations in their most recent statement, fwiw. Maybe it was a timing thing? SSC wanted to get it done, and the Dewetron reps couldn’t be there at that time?

Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street. > chaozbandit
10/28/2020 at 16:21

From the perspective of someone whom has created test equipment and owns a fairly large amount of it, this statement basically says:

The test was done using our equipment.

This test was not done with our employees present.

The burden of calibration and validation lies on SSC not us.

We cannot verify nor deny the results as we have not seen the data.

wafflesnfalafel > chaozbandit
10/28/2020 at 16:31

Isn’t it a bit odd they would feel the need to say anything? And if they were looking for some free press, I’d think they’d want to cooperate with SSC. Weird...

Snuze: Needs another Swede > gettingoldercarguy
10/28/2020 at 17:32

How easily can you edit a CSV file?

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
10/28/2020 at 17:37

As someone who regularly does testing with multimillion dollar test rigs, this is the correct take . In my case, we calibrate and validate our own systems regularly. And similar to Dewetron, I wouldn’t stake my reputation on results generated by a nyone who comes in off the street and uses our system without our engineers and analysts present. (Though, to be honest, we don’t let anyone off the street use our equipment. You rent the whole thing - equipment, lab, operators, engineers and analysts. If you’re nice we let you come watch . )

gettingoldercarguy > Snuze: Needs another Swede
10/28/2020 at 17:45

So other systems won’t let you edit or don’t have a csv format?

Snuze: Needs another Swede > gettingoldercarguy
10/28/2020 at 18:34

I honestly don’t know about any specifics or how it varies from vendor to vendor . But a ll data recorders do, ultimately, i s record a timestamp and a level value, usually voltage or current from a sensor. So most of them put out data in a very simple format, like a CSV. Sometimes they use a proprietary format, but its usually still just a CSV or similar + meta data. Maybe some encrypt it or something, I don’ t know. But still, all this stuff does is time v. level.

ranwhenparked > wafflesnfalafel
10/28/2020 at 18:49

SSC’s press release stated that they (DEWETRON) had validated SSC’s results when they had not. SSC self-validated their own results using DEWETRON equipment, which is a very different thing. They were putting words into another company’s mouth, so obviously that company had a good reason to set the record straight. For them to validate the results, they would have had to have played some sort of role in planning and setting up the test and would certainly have had to observe it.

Grindintosecond > chaozbandit
10/28/2020 at 18:54

Sounds like you can buy their equipment all you want but t heir instruction book says: Buy airline tickets for our employees to visit your site and use the equipment then pay for us to fly home. The end user is untrustable in any capacity.

They just stated that theri equipment is so finnicky and untrustable, anyone considering their equipment should think again. I know I would.

gettingoldercarguy > Snuze: Needs another Swede
10/28/2020 at 19:10

Yeah, their response for this vs what I see from others is odd. If they included caveats to appear neutral it would be less suspect.

That they lead up with this statement:

“Therefore, many customers around the globe rely on DEWETRON’s products which always provide extremely reliable and traceable results.”

Without including the disclaimer that dewetron employees need to be present for proper reliability and they need to go over the data themselves to be considered valid from their own equipment is weird.

It’s akin to Ferrari saying their cars perform perfectly, above others, but you may not test your car for a magazine and definitely not without our engineers present. Chris Harris had something to say about that.

https://jalopnik.com/how-ferrari-spins-5760248

chaozbandit > chaozbandit
10/28/2020 at 19:32

Video response from the gang that I saw first bring up the debate

ICYMI topgear and motortrend have both released follow up pieces today.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > gettingoldercarguy
10/28/2020 at 20:13

I remember the Harris v. Ferrari thing. Quite funny. And I think he made the absolutely correct point - Ferrari was being absolutely stupid, their cars are sooooo good, they don’t need to wring every last fraction out of them for the sake of winning non-scientific magazine tests or whatever.

I wonder if, due to this apparent lack of accuracy/validity when an employee isn’t present, Dewetron’s gear is cheaper than other stuff in the industry? Someone saw fit to put me in charge of a new project at work (just kicked off today) , with a shoestring budget , and I need cheap test gear I can afford to lose in case my test article sinks to the bottom of the ocean. I have access to facilities to calibrate this kind of stuff in house , so I don’t need a Dewetron employee present to consider my results valid. Hmm...

gettingoldercarguy > Snuze: Needs another Swede
10/28/2020 at 20:42

Hard to imagine it being cheaper than racelogic . I believe i t’s at least in part to their business model to operate like that, thus their distaste for one bypassing that.

ranwhenparked > Grindintosecond
10/28/2020 at 21:07

If SSC had issued a press release to the effect that they confirmed their own results using equipment they purchased from DEWETRON, there would have been no problem. The issue is that the headline on their release claimed that DEWETRON (the company) validated the result, when they did no such thing.

As an example, say you buy an aftermarket Smiths speedometer and associated componentry, and install it in your car yourself, and use the reading from that exclusively to determine your maximum speed on the track, and then claimed that Caerbont Automotive, the parent company of Smiths, had officially recognized and certified that you, yourself, had reached 150mph in your 1980 VW Rabbit diesel. In that scenario, all they did was make a product and sell it to you, their involvement ended at that point and they obviously had nothing to do with how you installed it, how you used it, and nobody from them was on hand that day to witness your seemingly impossible feat, so saying they were would be lying. You could say that you observed the reading yourself on a Smiths gauge installed in your car , but that would be the extent of what could be claimed.

That’s all that happened here, SSC bought some equipment and software from DEWETRON and used it to measure the speed of their car, then released a statement that the DEWETRON company had officially certified the speed their car hit, even though that company had no further involvement in anything involving SSC after the transaction where they sold the equipment.

PS9 > chaozbandit
10/29/2020 at 01:29

Do I want to *buy a 300 MPH supercar from a company that cannot get even the basics around verifying a claim to a world record breaking speed run right? No. No I do not.

* I ALREADY KNOW I CAN’T, SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE