Cheap welder experience?

"thejustache" (thejustache) 10/02/2020 at 15:00 • Filed to: None

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I find myself considering a welder and unsure of the direction to go. Anyone here try any of the myriad of cheap inverter welders found across Amazon and Harbor Freight these days?

Some background - I’ve been wanting to get a welder for years for random projects around the house, and maybe eventually auto restoration. Last year somebody gave me a giant old Fourney AC stick buzz box for free. I know it works, but it’s been sitting until I could put a 220v outlet outside. My house has no garage space, only a basement workshop and the outdoors. The welder is too heavy to drag up and down the stairs, so it just sits in the shed.

I’m now thinking about selling that plus the blacksmithing equipment I’ve had since my nerdy homeschooled teenager days (maybe a bad idea with the way 2020 is going?) and putting the money towards something modern and compact. I’m thinking I could get between $700-1000... which could probably buy an ok single process unit or a sketchy multi-process unit.

This is where I keep getting stuck - Should I get something that does it all (but maybe not very well) to learn on? Or should I just get something that does one thing well? If I just get one process, should I go the easy route and get a MIG or should I dedicate myself to suffering but ultimately learn a skill like TIG?

Sheep shear lamp with booger welds

I already know most of what I’d ever need to do I could do with a MIG gun. As is , most of the projects I’ve done so far (exhaust repair, shovel repair, cobbing together a ball joint removal tool, making a lamp out of sheep shears from the dump) could actually be done just fine with the David Tracy special HF flux welder. I really want to learn TIG though, and something like the $599 Lotos 200 that does ACDC TIG, has high frequency start, and a foot pedal is looking pretty appealing. It would be a long time before I’d be good enough to easily use it though.

Is it worth buying a cheap MIG now and saving up for a separate TIG setup? Waiting to get something that could do both? Give up on dreams of stacking dimes and just get a nice MIG and call it a day? Anyone with experience with welders in this price range, especially on automotive applications?

HammerheadFistpunch > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:11

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Its a question of hobby vs need and where the slider is between the two. It sounds like you would be best served by a reliable 110V MIG for the “need” side, but you want to learn more than one method for the “hobby side”. I will say that I’ve been very happy with my Hobart handler 120 that in inherited . It’ s been reliable, easy to use and more versatile than I thought it would be. I can do 22 gauge to 7 gauge which covers my uses cases almost completely. Though truthfully I’d probably never go thicker than the 11 gauge stuff I’ve been welding recently.

I guess the 140 is the new 120

https://www.amazon.com/Hobart-500559-Handler-Welder-115V/dp/B009X43F38

MM54 > HammerheadFistpunch 10/02/2020 at 15:15

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I have the 140 and have been very pleased with it. For someone starting out at home I think a good mid-range machine is a good option - you won’t grow out of it, but you’re not paying for industrial reliability that you’ll never use in one that may cost twice as much .

nerd_racing > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:16

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Came here to recommend a Hobart Handler.  They are a little more than horror freight, but they work, and work well, out of the box.  

HammerheadFistpunch > MM54 10/02/2020 at 15:18

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There are probably burlier units than the Hobart, but honestly unless you are chucking in a truck bed a lot, this thing should last a lifetime.  Seem really well put together.

thejustache > HammerheadFistpunch 10/02/2020 at 15:20

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See, I think this is the voice of reason. I’m sure 90% of anything I’d need to do in the near future I could do with even a 110v MIG like that. Then there is a part of me that wonders how many amps I’d need to weld roll cage tubing. Of course, I’m not building a roll cage any time soon, and if I ever was I’d probably leave it to the pros. But what if I wanted to, would I need something bigger? There is a decent jump up in price and size for the 220v machines, but if I’m investing now there is a part of me that wants to be set up from the get-go. That part might need to take a hike when it meets my wallet though...

sony1492 > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:21

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Personally I think you’d be better off buying a cheap mig, then upgrading if you turn out to be exceeding what it can do. A little box can still do big projects and itll take a while without classes for your skill to exceed its ability. It’d be a shame to spl ash out on an $800 machine to only use it a few times per year.

Migs a skill, sure anyone can lay a bead but its still important to know the techniques and setting for a strong and/or good looking joint. Id say pick up something with adjustable amperage and you’ll be okay.

Lincoln weld-pak 100 is solid.

Just bought an ebay special tig/ plasma cutter so ill report back on how that really goes, once it shows up.

thejustache > nerd_racing 10/02/2020 at 15:21

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Yeah, I’ve been hearing ‘Hobart Handler’ a lot, both here and other places I’ve asked. Thanks!

Sovande > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:21

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If you want a welder, buy an actual welder instead of the cheap inverter types. I, too, have a Hobart Handler 140 and it's been great. Easy to set up, easy to use and works great with a bottle hooked up to it. I think it's about 6-7 years old at this point and has been flawless 

lone_liberal > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:24

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I just ordered the Hobart 140. I went through all of the mental gymnastics trying to make a decision but I finally decided that the Hobart would do what I realistically need a welder for which would be patch panels and things like that. 

thejustache > Sovande 10/02/2020 at 15:24

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Awesome, thanks. So far I think I’m 6 for 6 on answers that say ‘110v MIG is good enough ’ and 5 for 6 on answers that say ‘Hobart Handler’.

HammerheadFistpunch > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:25

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The good news about welding equipment is that it will hold its value. If you decide to move up you can sell and upgrade, or if you get more invested in the hobby you can keep the 115V for smaller stuff and the 230v for bigger stuff. The 140 can handle 1/4 inch or 4 gauge steel (though that’s pushing it) where the NHRA required gauge for tubular cages is only .11 8 (11 gauge).

The truth is that fabricating is about 30% welding and 70% cutting, bending, shaping and grinding. Save the money on the former category to buy more tools in the later.

notsomethingstructural > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:25

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I’ve met a few welders in my travels and almost across the board they recommend getting a single process 110 flux core welder when you’re starting out. [edit: I guess technically gas/gas less selectable is multiprocess but we’ll call those single process for convenience]. Their two cents is basically the people who NEED tig and true  multiprocess setups don’t have to wonder if they need them. Anyone else will almost certainly never use it since 99% of household welding stuff can be done on 110V flux core. Virtually all of them have the same 110V flux core Lincoln unit for portability which goes for like $500? At Home Depot. Take the rest of your budget to buy a good $100+ autodimming helmet and quality wire and tools. That would be their advice.

Sovande > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:26

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If you have the cash and the 220v, I would 100% go that route. I don't have 220 in my garage so I didn't get one. The only downside I can see is that you lose a little portability as I can go anywhere with a standard 15 amp circuit and plug in. 

HammerheadFistpunch > notsomethingstructural 10/02/2020 at 15:28

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“ Their two cents is basically the people who NEED tig and true multiprocess setups don’t have to wonder if they need them.”

Bingo.

Sovande > lone_liberal 10/02/2020 at 15:29

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Get a bottle of gas and you will be all set for panel repair. I tried to patch a truck bed using f lux core and while it got done, it would have gotten done much more easily with gas and solid wire. The difference is pretty dramatic.

Chinny Raccoon > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:30

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Keep an eye out for used equipment. My really nice Cebora TIG was £200 from an auction. 

thejustache > Chinny Raccoon 10/02/2020 at 15:32

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Auctions are a good idea, we do have some farm equipment auctions and the like around here. Most of what I’ve seen listed online though has tended to be nearly as much money as something new

Darkbrador > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:38

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I’ve happily used a cheap Amazon/ no name MIG welder for years on non-hardcore and simple stuff ( motorcycle parts, light body work, home-brewn tools). I recently “upgraded” to a 220V welder to MIG weld thicker metal, and eventually try my hand at simple TIG stuff . A lso no name, from the bay, it’s actually working very well :

( It actually has a name, it’s unfortunately called “HITBOX”. N othing a large black Sharpie can’t improve ... ahem).

If you’re not a hard core guy with professional welding needs , you can get really good result with an affordable welder. The technology is not rocket science, it’s simple electrical/electronics in there.

And like many other things, it’s more the users care & technique that makes a difference. G ood workmanship with an affordable welder will result in better welds than a sloppy job with a fancy welder.

PartyPooper2012 > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:48

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If you want a decent tool, get a decent tool. Otherwise you will hate the crap you get and won’t use it. When you don’t use the crap you bought because it’s crap, you regret spending money on it. Eventually you will end up buying the decent tool you should have bought in the first place. 

NYankee1927 > HammerheadFistpunch 10/02/2020 at 15:50

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To add, many of the welders will do up to 1/4" steel. I pride myself on my fabrication and welding skills, but when I’m at the point where the loads involved need 1/4" steel, I seriously question if I should be the one doing the work. Maybe then it is time to call someone who only welds for a living. Chances are something expensive or dangerous depends on that weld being correct and it gets much harder there.

nerd_racing > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 15:59

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I have the 210 MVP (110v or 220v) and it welds excellently with flux, gas, or spool gun.  Money well spent. 

sn4cktimes > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 16:11

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This is just my opinion on this, and there are many; so do not think this is definitive. It is not. But, I was a professional welder for 15 years before working on also getting a Millwright ticket (where I still did a fair amount of welding) . For most people, a MIG (GMAW) machine is just fine. I’ll try and keep it layman level, but give a bit of reasoning . 110v will do most stuff. 220v will do it a bit better as the machine “has more power” (longer wavelength) to work with which helps “smooth” the power out. 480 is best, but goodluck with that in residential. But yeah, 110V should get it done. Use a machine WITH gas. Just do it. C25 (Argon with CO2) or Argon gas for the best results on steel. If you weld aluminum or stainless you require straight Argon. There are gas less flux-core wires, but your welds will be SO much better with a shielding gas. Gasless wire is a great option for welding outdoors where a breeze might disrupt the gas. When welding structural stuff in a shop we used 1/16th flux-core AND gas for better penetration and slower cooling. Flux can also be a source of frustration when you weld. It can make your puddle harder to watch, and it can contaminate multi pass welds if not cleaned out properly. Some flux wires are also not rated for anything other than “flat position” welding. So nothing but straight down. Some are rated for multi position. I’ve never used one rated for overhead... even when welding overhead.

Multiprocess machines can work pretty decently. Or like any welding machine, be a flaming piece of crap. Really depends on the machine. Most modern inverters are pretty good with a smooth delivery of steady output.

The best welder is the one you have, or can get your hands on.

I have an Everlast TIG/Stick/Plasma-cutter. It does a pretty good job on all three. It works better on 220V, which I have a plug for in my garage. But I have done repair work at a buddy’s place on 110V with the stick welder. Worked fine, was just a bit less “smooth” than it could’ve been. The plasma works fine on 110V just can’t crank it as high for as long. The TIG works fine on 110V, but the high frequency mode for aluminum does seem to be better on 220V. I’ve welded stainless in the garage and it went fine. I’d buy the machine again and will likely buy a wire feeder from them when the time comes. My only issue was I had to repair the pedal after dropping an exhaust bracket onto it and it cut a wire. I got the job finished with the torch control.  

Watch reviews, buy what you’ll use, there’s all sorts of TIG porn out there but MIG is so much faster and easier. I t’s normally THE WAY to go. Besides the fact that I was welding a very wonky custom header for my AMC, I would’ve bought a multi machine but with MIG instead of TIG.

TLDR: get MIG, use gas. 

sn4cktimes > notsomethingstructural 10/02/2020 at 16:22

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Already made a post, but ditto on the auto dimming helmet. I use one as a professional and don’t know why anyone wouldn’t. You can even buy a module that pops into a “standard” old school mask for production welding where maybe you don’t need such a large field of view but are going to go through a lot of lens covers. A lot of companies will only buy the boxes of “standard” covers due to cost.

I have an Optrel and the lense covers are expensive as hell and I’d still never go back. I’ve had the same unit since 2003/04. I’ve changed the headband in it. And these days you can get a lot for $100 vs the $800-$1000 for the very “best” units.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > thejustache 10/02/2020 at 16:23

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In case you want to see what there is out there...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11q_pgHJ344iyzcxHvgDdqK34yb_8dlAadJPMOPUJ2Ng/edit?usp=sharing

I was in a similar boat about a year ago. I was split on what to do. I ended up buying a Hobart Handler 140 from a cousin of mine for a steal of a deal. Otherwise the above spreadsheet might be helpful. It’s definitely not a comprehensive list. My second pick after the Hobart was going to be the Harbor Freight Titanium mig welder, but I’m not sure if their prices are still competitive. The other thing about going with the Hobart is replacement parts are really easy to come by.

If I were in your shoes, I’d be tempted to save up a bit more and get a brand name multi-process unit.  I’d love to learn TIG, but that would require buying another machine (and another tank of gas).

notsomethingstructural > sn4cktimes 10/02/2020 at 18:33

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You can get autodimmers now for like $35 which is nuts, but all the welders I’ve talked to say there’s a huge gap from $35 to $100 and d iminishing returns after that. They would also say if you have $550  to spend  you’re better off getting a $400 machine and a $150  helmet than a $500 machine and a $50 helmet. Thought that was interesting. 

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > HammerheadFistpunch 10/02/2020 at 20:18

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Hobart is to welding what Craftsman was to hand tools in 1998. And I mean that in the best way possible.

sn4cktimes > notsomethingstructural 10/02/2020 at 21:50

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Yups, kinda aim for $100 and up. My coworker bought a Linde helmet for $99. The lenses were like $2.00 a pop and it was a pretty good unit. He ended up smooshing it with a beam, but just bought another one on his coffee break  for $99 and got on with life.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > notsomethingstructural 10/02/2020 at 21:52

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My eyes are worth a lot more to me than $ 40

Schwing1 > thejustache 10/03/2020 at 11:13

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I went with a Titanium flux 125.  One of the best tool buying decisions Ive ever made.  Harbour freight for just under $200.00 after applying coupons.  I've done more with this 15lb. purse size welder than I would have ever dreamed.  My 1st choice to marry metal.

oldmxer > thejustache 10/03/2020 at 22:53

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i’ve had a HF mig for years, so far so good, have not looked into cheap Tig, I have a big Hobart I bought used for tig, I agree with raccoon on that, tig is so high amp a cheapie might not work out in the long run

Je1970 > thejustache 10/03/2020 at 23:59

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It has been a few years for me too, to decide what welder to buy. Then I came to my decision to buy a multi process welder even though I had only stick welder experience. I remembered all the projects I DIDN’T DO because my welder COULDN’T. So I figured I wanted a welder that could do just about anything.(even if I couldn’t). So I could learn to mig,mig flux,arc,&tig. It’s amazing what you can find on the web &Youtube to learn how to weld these different process welds. I   like you are exactly the same. I too have a basement workshop no garage ( just a carport) and my Lincoln 225 ac in my shed but i have 220 volt ( I installed)service in my carport though.I have been waiting for a project to help me justify the purchase of an expensive welder. So I had to weld an exhaust muffler on so this was my chance because I knew my Lincoln would blow holes through such thin metal . Like I said years of kinda of looking I found Harbor freight welder ( I know what you’re thinking Harbor freight Chinese junk ) but, no. I reviewed several different sources and amazingly there are hundreds of 5 star reviews & Youtube reveiwed about some of their welders (and reveiwed just about every single one) .a week ago I literally just purchased Harbor freight unlimited 200 and welded an exhaust muffler in using flux wire. Which I never flux mig welded ever before and the 200 did great. I search here on the web to help me learn my NEW TOY ,I Find your conundrum and hope to help shed light for your decision. I am eagerly learning the different process welds and love the fact that the Unlimited 200 only weighs only 24 lbs compared to my 300lb Lincoln because of my steep basement stairs. Letting me not be lazy because my welder is too much to get out & weld. So if you get a harbor freight unlimited 200 which it does 220v & 110 v because you don’t yet have 220v service. It can weld on 110v ( half the amperage though) you want to weld auto body ,my understanding oxy/acetylene is best for that but, tig is great too. The Unlimited 200 goes for about $750 get the $99 2 year extended warranty after all it is “made in china” but, what isn’t anymore. Trust me look at their website look at youtube ,there is hardly any bad mouth about the unlimited 200 but,there is ALWAYS a f ool to complain about something. I looked at the Vulcan 220 but, it’s 2 times the size & weight . I see alot of guys say Hobart handler but, after several reveiws there are a few guys that say they have a Hobart & tried the Unlimited 200 & many of them are impressed with the Unlimited 200 and most actually like the Unlimited 200 better . I hope this helps you .