WSJ: Southwet Flew Millions on Jets With Unconfirmed Maintenance Records

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 01/30/2020 at 15:31 • Filed to: None

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Comments? I know we have a few members here with industry experience.

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CB > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/30/2020 at 15:35

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A fun poll: would you rather fly on a jet with questionable service history, or a 737 MAX?

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/30/2020 at 15:37

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well... I mean, it’s Southwest...

facw > CB 01/30/2020 at 15:39

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Give me the MAX. Known flaw, known workaround.

Ash78, voting early and often > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 01/30/2020 at 15:42

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Exactly why it’s shocking -- they’re reputed to have one of the best maintenance records in the world, and only one fatality ever due to a fluke accident.

Ash78, voting early and often > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/30/2020 at 15:42

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Link goes to Google Drive for some reason (WSJ paywall, probably)...try this:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/30/wsj-southwest-planes-with-unconfirmed-maintenance-logs-flew-millions.html

I’m initially skeptical because of the depth of the maintenance drama that occurred with SWA last year — especially with non-SWA maintenance contractors. There’s a lot of bad blood out there.

Once the dust settles, I would bet this is due to some minor paperwork oversight along the way (maybe even intentionally “lost” or altered) .

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 01/30/2020 at 15:43

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Known flaw so far...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > CB 01/30/2020 at 15:44

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Southwest is a big MAX customer.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/30/2020 at 15:44

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Sounds like more of an FAA enforcement problem than a SWA problem.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > CB 01/30/2020 at 15:45

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Max. 

WilliamsSW > Ash78, voting early and often 01/30/2020 at 15:47

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They’ve had at least 2 fatal incidents.  One tends to be forgotten because the child wasn’t on the aircraft.

Spanfeller is a twat > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/30/2020 at 15:48

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Budget airlines are the scourge of the earth. I say this keeping in mind that it is a miracle of capitalism that I could get on a plane from M adrid to London for ten euros, but evidently when you’re looking to cut costs, you’re gonna find a way to do so.

A carbon tax would probably kill them dead.

WilliamsSW > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/30/2020 at 15:50

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It’s not at all clear to me what “unconfirmed” means here. If they did it but didn’t document properly, that’s a paperwork and process issue, not a safety issue .

If they skipped required work though, that’s a different ballgame.  

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/30/2020 at 15:52

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Sure there could be more, but that’s always the case. There are certainly potential issues with a plane that may not have been maintained properly.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WilliamsSW 01/30/2020 at 15:52

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Good point. Personally, I have a high degree of confidence in Southwest.

facw > Spanfeller is a twat 01/30/2020 at 15:54

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There’s nothing really budget about Southwest though, their coach fares tend to be inline with (and frankly often higher for the routes I fly) than the legacy carriers. An aggressive carbon tax would apparently add around 20% to fuel costs. That wouldn’t be good, but especially since the competition has to pay too, probably wouldn’t be ruinous.

Spanfeller is a twat > facw 01/30/2020 at 15:56

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Well that’s a surprise to me, I always thought Southwest was like the American Ryanair.

facw > Spanfeller is a twat 01/30/2020 at 15:58

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Nah, they are a bit weird, because they don’t have assigned seating and don’t post their flight prices on comparison sites, but they are not that sort of no-frills airline, in fact they are pretty much the only major airline that gives you free checked bags.

If you want an American Ryanair to hold in contempt, look to Spirit.

Ash78, voting early and often > Spanfeller is a twat 01/30/2020 at 16:01

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Nope...even though Southwest basically “invented” the low cost segment, they have completely stood firm and not chased all the other carriers to the bottom.

As a result, a basic fare on Southwest is FAR nicer than a basic fare on Delta, United, or American for the same price.

They never had seat assignments, the planes are almost always on time, the staff are generally happy and cheerful, and you get 2 free checked bags. But it’s just the efficiency and professionalism -- no tricks -- that keeps them at the top of the customer satisfaction polls.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > WilliamsSW 01/30/2020 at 16:01

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This sounds more like an FAA issue than a SWA issue.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Spanfeller is a twat 01/30/2020 at 16:02

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SWA is pretty good, they don’t do in flight meals or have 1st class but they treat you well and are very good with on time departures and arrivals. Plus free checked bags.

WilliamsSW > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 01/30/2020 at 16:03

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Yeah that’s my impression too. 

WilliamsSW > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/30/2020 at 16:03

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As do I. 

ranwhenparked > WilliamsSW 01/30/2020 at 16:03

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Which is pretty good, considering that they’re a giant airline and have been operating for almost 50 years. Especially when you look at the circumstances of one of those deaths (a violently insane man tried to break down the cockpit door , and asphyxiated whilst being restrained by other passengers). The child's death was because a plane skidded on an icy/slick runway landing in winter and slid off the runway, hitting a car on an adjacent highway

WilliamsSW > ranwhenparked 01/30/2020 at 16:10

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They do have a great safety record, and I trust them.

Funny the two incidents I was thinking of were flights 1380 and 1248-not the nut job that stormed the cockpit.   the midway overrun was local to me so it’s fresh in my mind.

ranwhenparked > WilliamsSW 01/30/2020 at 16:15

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1380 is the only one that I'd say was at all attributable to the airline, maybe. But, even then, they were following all manufacturer requirements for engine maintenance and inspection. That fatigue crack wasn't detectable under standard procedures, because it wasn't foreseen that that could even be an issue with that engine.

WilliamsSW > ranwhenparked 01/30/2020 at 16:22

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1248 was absolutely attributable to the airline. 1380 less so, if anything.

Doesn’t change the fact that they’re very safe though l.

ranwhenparked > WilliamsSW 01/30/2020 at 16:25

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I guess that was pilot error, wasn't it? Still, they are one of the best, and actually seem to care a little bit about the on board customer experience, which is an increasing rarity among US based airlines

i86hotdogs > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/30/2020 at 16:27

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Just make sure they get me to ‘Dega in April. I don’t care about getting back, though

WilliamsSW > ranwhenparked 01/30/2020 at 16:35

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Yeah pilot error, plus training and procedures.

I think the people doing maintenance and flying at other US airlines care, too - but sometimes they get treated so shitty by airline management you get a big dose of surly attitude with it, which reduces confidence.

Southwest treats its people well enough that they’re actually happy on the job (also they screen candidates HARD for culture fit)

Tl;dr US airlines are all incredibly safe, but not perfect.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > i86hotdogs 01/30/2020 at 16:36

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I really like Southwest Employees’ attitude.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WilliamsSW 01/30/2020 at 16:37

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If I had to get into problems on a flight, I want the crew to be SWA people because they have a great attitude. Other companies, UAL in my experience, people are sore and grumpy.

WilliamsSW > facw 01/30/2020 at 16:38

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25 years ago, they WERE a budget airline.  Somehow they’ve kept people believing that they still are — but as you point out, they’re not, and haven’t been for a long time.  

benn454 > facw 01/30/2020 at 16:50

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 Southwest also has the best attendants in my experience. 

ttyymmnn > facw 01/30/2020 at 18:11

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And soon to be one of the most rigorously tested aircraft in history. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 01/30/2020 at 22:18

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Both the FAA and Southwest come off looking shitty. First the local inspectors, southwest for putting the planes in service, then SW again for having 2 years to patch any paperwork holes. On top of this Southwest had to know with the inspectors removed that the FAA was shaking things up internally , and with the 737 max that the FAA was going to looking for a paddlin. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > WilliamsSW 01/30/2020 at 22:27

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From what I understand from the issue in fall, SW bought planes (most in question foreign) , that had missing or improperly filled in paperwork . raising question what work was done and when. The planes were rubber stamped by 3 local FAA inspectors . This was then found out, and SW was given time to track down the missing gaps.