More Details on Model S at 'Ring from R&T

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 09/17/2019 at 16:27 • Filed to: None

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“According to local Nurburgring experts, the two Model S prototypes lapping the Nurburgring are nothing like the EVs you can buy from Tesla today. Our inside source describes the cars as being “stripped to the gunwales,” the interiors fully gutted of anything apart from the necessary seats, harnesses, and driver controls —hence the dark-tinted windows, it seems. And we’re nearly certain these prototypes are sporting a brand-new, three-motor ultra-high-performance drivetrain —one motor for each rear wheel, and one powering the front axle. Tesla CEO Elon Musk says this ultra-high-performance drivetrain—nicknamed “Plaid,” the logical conclusion to the automaker’s many Spaceballs references— !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! on production Model S, Model X and Roadster sometime next year.

The cars are also running on huge, wide aftermarket wheels wearing unusual tires—Goodyear Eagle F1 Supersport RS, a brand-new track-oriented (but still street legal) tire just introduced this year. Currently, those tires are not available on any Tesla model, and the Nurburgring prototypes wear add-on fender flares to cover the extra-wide wheel-and-tire setup. Our eyewitness also noted that the Teslas have huge carbon-ceramic brakes, possibly Brembo SGLs , the type used on top-spec performance cars from Lamborghini, Mercedes and more. And !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , the Teslas seen at the ‘Ring also feature aggressive aerodynamic mods including a substantial rear Gurney flap ”

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a29086205/modified-tesla-model-s-beats-porsche-taycan-nurburgring/

He’s clearly having them pull out all the stops, shooting for the most ridiculous number they can manage, regardless of how far from a production car they get. And still talking out of his ass:

“ It’s a start. We expect these track times to be beaten by the actual production 7 seat Model S Plaid variant that goes into production around Oct/Nov next year. ”

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Saracen > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 16:42

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The stock Model S also can’t hit any track without going into limp mode after a minute or two.  That may be the most impressive thing about this ringer that they’re using.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Saracen 09/17/2019 at 16:44

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Yes, clearly running the FULL ATTACK ECU (MCU?) settings.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 16:45

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Yeah, Elon can go ahead and fuck off with this one.

Thomas Donohue > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 16:47

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Oct/Nov 2020? At least he’s learned not to over-promise delivery dates.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Saracen 09/17/2019 at 16:47

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They clearly need one of these:

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 09/17/2019 at 16:48

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LOL

That door pull is great .

Saracen > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 16:48

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Or they figured out battery pack cooling, finally.

nah, who are we kidding.  They are probably letting it overheat and then replacing the battery pack between laps.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 09/17/2019 at 16:49

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This guy says “ full KW suspension” is rumored as well. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Saracen 09/17/2019 at 16:53

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I figured limp mode was to protect long-term battery life. They’re just going to use these up, get a fast time, and crush/ mothball them.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue 09/17/2019 at 16:54

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Ha! Probably still 6 months ahead of what’s possible.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 16:56

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I honestly think they should put a minimal interior in these and sell them to the public like that. Let it be the hypercar version of a Model S.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 16:56

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They’re already lemon law buyback cars, so definitely headed to the crusher.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 09/17/2019 at 17:01

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Would be awesome, but highly unlikely.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 09/17/2019 at 17:02

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There must be a Telsa museum for stuff like this.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:02

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So, does the red car have ANY ground clearance at all?  Or is that just a standard Tesla air suspension failure?

promoted by the color red > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:03

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Those Enkei PF01s look mighty fine on the Model S. Best of luck to Elon & his merry band of engineers and devs.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > promoted by the color red 09/17/2019 at 17:05

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Those are HRE P101 s. $$$

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/17/2019 at 17:07

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Current r umor is it’s on KW coilovers, and the suspension is highly compressed in that corner.

Thomas Donohue > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:08

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Just saw this as well. When is the Roadster due, 2022?  lol

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue 09/17/2019 at 17:09

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And h ow many people are waiting on a free Roadster, for all the referrals they gave him?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue 09/17/2019 at 17:12

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Found this:

https://electrek.co/2019/01/17/tesla-roadster-free-killed-referral-program/

80 x $250k = $20 million

Wonder what actual production cost will be for each one...

Thomas Donohue > Saracen 09/17/2019 at 17:13

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Assuming they flew those cars over for the test, I would not want to be on the same cargo flight as those batteries on the way back.

Or ship for that matter.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:15

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Ugh this is what I feared. I was hoping they wouldn’t cheat and would present a real competitor to the Taycan that you can actually buy. This is anti-competitive. Whatever record this Model S sets will be no more significant than the record set by the WRX STi Type RA NBR that Prodrive built.

Thomas Donohue > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:16

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I wasn’t aware of that!  hahaha.  Maybe 2023 production, free models go to the back of the line for 2024.

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:19

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I’m particularly entertained by the idea of “bringing” a Model S from California to Europe. Because that USDM Model S has the proprietary Tesla connector, while European Teslas come with the Mennenkes connector. The blue one clearly was imported, you can see the HOV sticker on the side. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 09/17/2019 at 17:21

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He just wants the headlines, regardless of how he gets them, regardless of whether he can actually deliver on his promises or not.

Honestly, this whole thing comes off as him being legitimately scared of the market share that Porsche (and VW/Audi ) will soon be taking away from him.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue 09/17/2019 at 17:21

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Ha! He’s hoping some of the winners die off before they can collect.

Thomas Donohue > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:23

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I’m hoping to get into a PHEV/Hybrid Boxster by then.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:27

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yeah, I’m terribly curious-- especially if that time is valid.  Or, maybe, it’s just a Model S body shell draped on a Radical SR8...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 09/17/2019 at 17:28

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DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:28

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What irritates me is how reductive people are being of all the work Porsche did to make a really fantastic car.

“Hurr durr too expensive... Model S beat dum por ch... all hail Musk”

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue 09/17/2019 at 17:31

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I already miss the flat six sound - who knows what noises those will make?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 09/17/2019 at 17:32

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Buyers know better, but yeah, the general reaction on the street from someone who just reads headlines will be exactly that.

Thomas Donohue > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:37

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Not giving up the 986. Unless I move to a 981, in which case I’m   not giving that up either. But I have no problem moving to a PHEV or EV for my daily driver.

Uncle T needs to start looking for a farm with a barn .

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Thomas Donohue 09/17/2019 at 17:44

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=)

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/it-s-happening-1838037433

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:48

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If you’re following this as closely as your posts suggest, you must at least admit that the laptimes the Plaid model S is laying are very, very impressive. Reportedly 20 seconds faster than the Taycan record run.

Keeping in mind this is a (heavily) modified car, it’s not that impressive. But this is an early prototype and they have another year of development ahead... I don’t think they’re going to keep the 20 second lead, but I’m sure its going to be close

Thomas Donohue > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:50

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Ha!  Nice!

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 17:58

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Nah, then there’d be evidence of the lies. These things will get disappeared. 

gettingoldercarguy > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 18:03

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What’s the price of the Taycan turbo s hybrid gts RS weissach edition?

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Spanfeller is a twat 09/17/2019 at 18:48

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Putting the interior back in is 5-10 seconds on its own depending on if it’s a GT3 RS style stripper interior or a standard interior.

It’s irrelevant because based on the other modifications they have done to this I guarantee the battery management limits have been disabled and they are destroying a set of batteries in 3-4 laps.

At best I see a production version of this being just a hair faster than the Taycan.

Spanfeller is a twat > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 09/17/2019 at 18:50

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“ but I’m sure its going to be close”

You’re preaching to the choir.

About the batteries though, one of the key mods to the Plaid is an enlarged air intake, which points to better cooling. possibly. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 20:00

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If t doesn’t come with Plaid seats and headliner, glass roof be damned, then I don’t want it 

Spanfeller is a twat > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 09/17/2019 at 20:29

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I guess that their gimicky door handles don’t make the cut for prototypes. 

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/17/2019 at 21:13

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Maybe this will become a new option package in the future.  I’m sure some Tesla fanbois would be all to happy to plunk down another 100k for all the ‘ring run goodies.  

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > gettingoldercarguy 09/17/2019 at 22:46

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A lot. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 09/17/2019 at 22:49

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Yes, i f the rumored times are true, it’s very impressive, regardless, for a car so big & heavy.

jimz > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/18/2019 at 07:00

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Meanwhile, Eldon Mollusk is trying to weasel out of trouble by claiming “pedo guy” is a common insult in South Africa.

I wish I was joking.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 07:01

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We have to admit a fast car is fast?

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 09/18/2019 at 07:17

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I think there’s something respectable about Tesla going to the N urburgring for the first time and setting laps under 7:30 after less than a month of testing.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > jimz 09/18/2019 at 08:39

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Seriously. He’s a younger, smarter, tech-ier version of Trump, insofar as he operates on Twitter, etc.

“I am told this information. I don’t know if it is true,” Musk said in his deposition. “But what if we have another Jeffrey Epstein on our hands? And what if he uses whatever celebrity he gains from the cave rescue to shield his bad deed? That would be terrible.”

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 08:48

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Probably broke too often

Spanfeller is a twat > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 09/18/2019 at 09:00

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Or maybe, just maybe, this isn’t a production car and in order to carry out tests safely they need an extra layer of safety for the driver?

Mercedes Streeter > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 09:36

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 They're using lemon law buyback cars for this, the door handles were probably already broken and they just replaced them with pulls. lol

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 10:22

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Nah, it’s because the car is stripped of every ounce of weight they can find. Their level of dedication to cheating is impressive.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 14:43

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Using simple multiplication, this thing might have 880 hp and 1,380 lb-ft of torque AT THE WHEELS.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a32690/tesla-model-s-p100d-dyno-horsepower-torque/

If correct, the times are impressive, but not that surprising for something with this kind of power. Will be interesting to know what its top speed is on the long straights.

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/18/2019 at 14:51

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Did you literally just multiply 588*3/2 because it has one extra motor? That’s Top Gear Engineering right there!

More conservatively, I’d imagine the triple motor setup increases the output at the rear , and allows for more sophisticated torque vectoring.

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/18/2019 at 14:55

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davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 15:04

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Haha - yes, yes I did. But why wouldn’t it be nearly that simple? I’m assuming each motor has the same output, of course - total speculation.

And wouldn’t losses actually be less in a scenario where each motor powers an individual wheel instead of needing to be split between two wheels?

Telsa says the new Roadster will have 7,376 lb-ft of torque at the wheels, fwiw.

Elon: “ To be clear, Plaid powertrain is about a year away from production & applies to S, X, & Roadster ”

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 15:05

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Thought you’d like that.

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/18/2019 at 15:12

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The Model S performance powertrain uses different motors, the front motor remains the regular one from the AWD model, and the rear one is uprated, so are the cables and fuses that link the battery. Or so I’ve been lead to believe.

A triple motor would be a less  efficient system at peak performance , but I imagine that it would be easier to cool than a dual motor setup with more power. 

I’d imagine the 7,000lbft of torque are including the gear reduction and the diameter of the rim, lol.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 15:13

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The P100D has a 102 kWh battery pack.

The Roadster will have a 200 kWh battery pack.

So 3 > 2, by an even larger margin than one might think.

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/18/2019 at 15:32

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That’s how much energy the battery can store... Its capacity to discharge that energy is what matters as far as output power goes, you step over that boundary and you damage the battery and/or the cabling. Think of the kWh as the amount of liters a gas tank can hold, the fuel pump being the capacity to discharge.

Porsche in this sense has a sort of advantage since their batteries are set up to have twice the voltage, reducing the current draw per given power requirement, which, to an extent, means less heat.

Don’t quote me on this tho, I’m rusty on my electrical knowledge.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 15:39

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“ Venkat Viswanathan [professor at Carnegie Mellon] told me that when it comes to motor output and thus vehicle acceleration, you’re really limited by the power draw from each cell. But the fact that the Roadster’s pack is double the size of the one in the Tesla Model S P100D (which is no slouch, making a combined 760 horsepower ) means that the power pulled from each cell won’t be as crazy as we think. Viswanathan told me over the phone that, “the power draw may not be that much more than [the cells in] a ludicrous [Model S].”

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/18/2019 at 15:59

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That’s not very helpful since the architecture and chemistry is up to the manufacturer...Not to be too stubburn, but having twice the power capacity doesn’t necessarily mean that the battery has twice the power capability.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 16:03

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Yeah, I understand. I guess we’ll know when we know.

But... if we make the assumption that the individual cells are the same size, and there are twice the number of cells, then the total power draw possible would be twice as much, right?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Spanfeller is a twat 09/18/2019 at 16:08

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https://electrek.co/2019/09/13/tesla-patent-battery-cell-better-performance-cheaper/

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/29870/does-tesla-have-a-brand-new-world-beating-battery

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/18/2019 at 16:47

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I mean, maybe? It’s up to other things in the drivetrain like the converter, the motors themselves and the cooling options. I suppose that if they use the same cells they use on the model 3 (made by them), then they’re pushing for 200kWh and a voltage of ~ 875 v, which would halve the current draw per power requirement compared to the Model S P100D ’s battery .