Electric car road trips suck

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 09/16/2019 at 11:44 • Filed to: None

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In other news, rain comes from clouds.

There’s a lot to say here and a lot you don’t.

Obviously charging an electric car on a long road trip is going to suck but this really drives it home.

Im not saying there aren’t going to be solutions in the future and Im not saying they aren’t problems worth solving.

Its nice for the rest of the world to understand why westerners are struggling with the idea of EV adoption.

“but nobody needs to drive more than X miles in a day!”

Yeah? Come out west friend.

Seriously though, The story this tells about the Model X experience is rough.

Chariotoflove > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 11:55

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I’ll watch this when I have the time, but I will say that I’ve always liked TFL Car, and the common sense way they review things.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:00

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davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:02

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How much did the trailer come into play with how much it sucked?

vicali > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:04

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We were approached by the Electric Mobility of Canada association to help place charging stations across the region. They ended up choosing to put them at facilities that had power and some security- resulting in 4+hour charge stations sitting right beside the transfer stations;

Sweet.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 09/16/2019 at 12:11

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Now, I agree...yet I don’t. I’m not against Electric cars, though I much prefer gasoline powered ones....but, sadly, they are the way things are going.

That being said, they are off the table completely for me until range, charging availability and charging times are on par, or nearly on par with gasoline-powered cars.

HammerheadFistpunch > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 09/16/2019 at 12:14

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Batteries suck.  Electric power?  Better than ICE really outside of noise.  But Batteries suck.

HammerheadFistpunch > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/16/2019 at 12:15

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A lot it turns out. but its not like its that much trailer.  2000 lbs and relatively small frontal area.  

HammerheadFistpunch > vicali 09/16/2019 at 12:15

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Thats where I want to spend an hour!

vicali > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:20

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You could work on your wildlife photography while you wait ..

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:20

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Right, but just saying that out west, lots of miles in a day is really common, but having a trailer behind, much less so (and no one’s going to pick an EV if they have anything to tow - even something that small).

Unless they’re going to Burning Man, of course.

[ ModelXtowingportablegenerator.png]

HammerheadFistpunch > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/16/2019 at 12:29

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trailering is actually pretty common.  in the summer especially.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:34

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Heh. Yeah.

Did you see Jason’s “Engineering Explained” YouTube video where he goes out to “prove what a great road trip car the Model 3" is? The trip’s ruined, basically, by hitting a SINGLE pothole somewhere between Boise and Chicago that manages to destroy TWO Unobtainium Bespoke-to-that-TM3-Version rims, plus tires. Thousand of dollars of damage from ONE pothole... And long delays to get the right wheels delivered.

My point though is that he starts the trip and video with an “out of fairness in the comparison I’m going to do the whole trip at 70MPH”. 70 MPH!

WTF, dude? You moved from the cramped ‘east’ to the open space of Idaho. You are about to marvel at the wonders of 1500 miles of pavement from Boise to the oppression of Iowa...across FOUR Huge States where the posted limit is 80. And that 80 is only a suggestion. And you are fucking going to “prove” this to us by driving 70 when sane humans set the cruise to 87MPH and rock out? I can make Wyoming disappear in the rear view mirror in under 5 hours. Ditto the flatness of Nebraska.

And, you know, the secret has to be that the (supposed) engineering expert KNOWS that his efficiency drops to scheet beyond 70MPH. Those autobahnen guys report horrific numbers at 100.

These cars suck in the American West and I see nothing that’s likely to change my mind.  And bless Utah, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and Nebraska for bumping that limit up once we got the feds to lighten up.  Who drives across Wyoming at 70MPH?

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:35

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Well, Tesla always says you can “have lunch while you wait”.... if you are a vagrant, I guess.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:39

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But still less than 5 or 10% of vehicles on road trips.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:39

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Geezus. 2000 pounds? Most of us wouldn’t even know that was back there..

Hey, BTW. I’ve heard for years how ‘great’ the Model X is for towing... since it’s got some 5 000 pound tow capacity. Have you seen any truck test magazine do the Davis Dam Grade Towing Test with one? I’m curious how far a Model X gets up the grade before it goes into “Thermal Limit” and you are going 6 MPH up that long, steep grade?

HammerheadFistpunch > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/16/2019 at 12:40

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a car that doesn’t work 100% of road trips isn’t really a vehicle that works for a person.

HammerheadFistpunch > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/16/2019 at 12:41

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here is something close

I don’t know if Tesla’s ratings are J2807 certified, but if they are then they’ve done it.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:42

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Part of the problem:

Also if they followed a large truck whenever possible, it would have helped as well.

In addition to that, they should have been charging fully at the supercharger stations.

But they have a video designed to get a lot of clicks.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 12:42

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I get it. Just saying road trip trailering isn’t a concern for 90% of consumers.

HammerheadFistpunch > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/16/2019 at 12:43

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I realize. My point is that for people out west, it’ s a unique challenge for EV’s that are often overlooked by people in more population dense areas.

AestheticsInMotion > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/16/2019 at 12:43

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Is it really an 80mph posted limit? My west coast brain is incredibly jealous 

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > AestheticsInMotion 09/16/2019 at 12:50

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Yep. 80. Parts of West Texas are now posted 85, as is a tollway section near Austin.

It does affect your attitude toward air travel, since generally I do just put the cruise control at 86 or 87 and let the miles roll. Literally Wyoming plus Nebraska are 9 hours now and they used to be over 16 in the old days, with stops.

When Idaho finally ditched the Federal Mandated 55 MPH, both Senators flew out from DC to Boise to post the first new speed sign outside of town on I-84.  “We finally got the feds off our throats!”

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 13:02

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I edited my reply... I thought the tow rating was 7000 not 5000. I’d still be surprised if they can meet J2807. That’s just a brutal test, in unrelenting heat. I bet it’s miserable on an electric drivetrain.

Some of the Teslarati towing threads are eye-popping— in some cases “burning” 3 KW-hours PER MILE. On an equivalent basis this is like 5 MPG as measured by CO2 on the western grid... much, much worse than a light duty diesel would get towing only 5000 pounds. Hell, I got 12 on my gas Silverado the other day towing 6000 pounds of trailer and project Audi.

I’m still bewildered as to how this is supposed to be more than a “commuter car”.  And, I always say a TM3 is the best commuter car ever-- at a $25K price.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/16/2019 at 13:03

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Which 90%? Where did that stat come from?

Because if that were the measure we wouldn’t buy so many SUVs and CUVs.

HammerheadFistpunch > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/16/2019 at 13:04

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yup.  in the TLF test it was using 1.75 KW/hr per mile.  

Spanfeller is a twat > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 13:27

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Towing above 60mph  should be illegal but OK.

HammerheadFistpunch > Spanfeller is a twat 09/16/2019 at 13:28

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in some places its illegal to tow faster tha n 60, but for the most part...yeah its kind of a road hazard.

TheRealBicycleBuck > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 13:29

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It seems like they could have improved the aerodynamics of the trailer and seen some improvements. 

HammerheadFistpunch > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/16/2019 at 13:32

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I was thinking the same thing. but I guess the point is that am EV needs to replace a ICE vehicle in order to be viable. If you have to aerodynamically optimize for every trip and drive dangerously slow...it’ s not really a viable replacement, even taking long refuel times out of the equation.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 09/16/2019 at 13:41

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LOL - people buy SUVs & CUVs for trailering? That’s how they sell them, I guess...

Very, very few, in actuality, use them that way . Quick Google search says around 10% of households own a boat, and about 10% of households own an RV. There’s probably some overlap, so say 15% own either or. How many people that you know who own an RV or boat hardly ever take it from it’s parking space/storage facility? Just saying - LOTS of people are taking long, regular road trips, but a very small percentage of them are trailering something for those trips.

TheRealBicycleBuck > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 13:43

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EVs are fine for daily use around town. I think one viable option for extended range is a tow-behind battery tender. It’s basically a gas-powered generator with a supplemental battery pack to provide more range and charging when you don’t have access to a charger . They were talking about them 20 years ago, but I think they may have been a bit ahead of their time.

My first thought when I saw their setup was that a generator mounted on the tongue with some better aerodynamics and an on-board battery pack would have changed their approach to the trip. Make the trailer’s battery super-chargeable and you’d be able to significantly increase  the range, perhaps enough to render the generator redundant.

Spanfeller is a twat > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 13:45

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I don’t think their take is very sensible. I mean, at least they should also compare the cost of towing the same trailer, at the same speed, with an ICE car. 

HammerheadFistpunch > Spanfeller is a twat 09/16/2019 at 14:01

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Its not about cost in dollars, which they were also tracking and would have reported on had they completed their journey, its about replacement.  i.e. 19 hours in an ICE vehicle vs...well...not making it in an EV.  They’ve done several other videos comparing efficiency and costs in towing.  This was about: Can you use a model X like a soft core overlander would?  The answer is a clear NO.

Spanfeller is a twat > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 14:07

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Yes, that is not debatable. 

HammerheadFistpunch > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/16/2019 at 14:22

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They bought a 2kw generator and tried to charge it but you aren’t going to replace 500 watt/mile with a 2000 watt an hour geny. In order to keep up you would need an output of 30-40 kw, which makes sense since steady state towing requires about 40 or so HP.

TheRealBicycleBuck > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 14:31

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I didn’t get a chance to watch the whole thing. Thanks for filling me in.

HammerheadFistpunch > TheRealBicycleBuck 09/16/2019 at 14:37

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sorry, they didn’t try on the road to charge it, they tried it out on another video and realized the futility.  

Dusty Ventures > HammerheadFistpunch 09/16/2019 at 21:49

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I predict lack of raw resources for batteries is going to prove to be an even greater and more terminal issue for electric cars in the not so distant future.

HammerheadFistpunch > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 09/16/2019 at 22:04

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the speed limit on these highways is 75 to 80. i tow at 80. again... real life out west. as far as being fully charged, that takes time and their goal was to get there as quickly as they could. they could have made it if they were determined but too late. they should have left a day earlier for buffer but logistics may have prevented that.