“It was unavoidable...There was nothing he could do, and the collision happened.”

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn)
09/10/2019 at 15:30 • Filed to: None

This is part of the defense argument for Hayden Hammer, the man accused of taking part in a street race that killed two children and left their mother with brain damage. This is the first of the two pickup truck drivers to be tried, and he is facing two felony charges.

But really, he shouldn’t be punished that much. Because, as his lawyer argued, “Hayden acted immaturely....He acted like young kids with big trucks do.”

Kids? The driver was 18 at the time of the crash. Sure, you didn’t mean to kill those kids, but if you hadn’t been racing they wouldn’t be dead.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

I need to stop writing. I’m just getting more and more angry.

DISCUSSION (64)

CB > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:34

“He acted like kids with big trucks do.”

What kind of garbage defense lawyer is this. "My client street raced and killed some folks. Boys will be boys, am I right?"

HammerheadFistpunch > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:36

Gotta feel for the defense lawyer for not pun ching him in the face each time they meet let alone making some attempt at a defens e.

jimz > CB
09/10/2019 at 15:36

hey, it works for college rapists.

ttyymmnn > HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 15:37

I don’t feel sorry for any lawyer who would take this case.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:37

I have two divergent thoughts.

A: 18 may be legally an adult, but anybody who has even dealt with 18 year olds can tell you they are still very much kids.

B: Fuck street racers. Fuck this kid. He destroyed an entire family. “I’m young and dumb” may be a reason, but it is by no means an excuse. Get in your cage you son of a bitch.

ttyymmnn > jimz
09/10/2019 at 15:37

And presidents.

HammerheadFistpunch > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:38

Was he not the state appointed defense?

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher
09/10/2019 at 15:38

You see, you wrote what I was thinking before I stopped. But I think I had even more colorful language cued up.

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:39

1. He isn’t a kid.

2. If people with trucks at 18 act immaturity, causing them to street race and destroy 3 lives, them maybe they shouldn’t have big trucks until they’re older.

3. Most everyone I know has been 18, but I don’t know anyone who’s ever killed people, racing or not.

4. They should be charged to furthest extent of the law.

I t’s not being immature, it’s being a moron who lacks common sense as much as they do skill. But since they’re young and come from a good family, they’ll probably get off with probation and a slap on the wrist.

ttyymmnn > HammerheadFistpunch
09/10/2019 at 15:39

The article doesn’t say.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:39

I probably shouldn’t have, but this kind of stuff fires me up.

For Sweden > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:40

I don’t think you will find a defense attorney who will ague their client is clearly guilty and needs to rot in prison.

ttyymmnn > shop-teacher
09/10/2019 at 15:41

People with families tend to get worked up over these sorts of things, while idiot 18-year-olds with seemingly nothing to lose do not.

I’m sure he’s remorseful. Suck it up, asshole.

CB > jimz
09/10/2019 at 15:42

To be frank and speak off the record, the world is fucked.

Spanfeller is a twat > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:46

I don’t think that’s fair for the lawyer... Their profession means sometimes they have to take bad clients... They’re not there just to defend the clients, but to defend the right to appeal to a court, and perhaps even teach a court about possible issues in the legal system...

Spanfeller is a twat > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:49

It is a very sad situation, I hope the perpetrator is sentenced according to the most relevant laws.

benjrblant > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:49

He acted like young kids with big trucks do.

sooo... with this fact, maybe we should ban all “young kids” under the age of.... oh, 25 or so, from being able to legally operate “big trucks” on public roadways where they can kill and permanently injure innocent people.

ttyymmnn > Spanfeller is a twat
09/10/2019 at 15:50

I see what you are saying, but I just feel that this man’s actions are indefensible. He needs to plead guilty and take his lumps.

ttyymmnn > Spanfeller is a twat
09/10/2019 at 15:50

It is an entirely avoidable situation. And I hope so, too.

OPPOsaurus WRX > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:50

that kids gutta deal with what he did for the rest of his life, I guess the question now is where is he going to have to deal with it?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:51

Let me start with this: This is terrible and the “kid” deserves to be hit with what he can.

B ut before we all get fired up, we gotta think about all the dumb shit we did at that age.

Sure it never ended like this for us, but it likely could have. If it had, I would hope I would have been hit with the works as well.

Spanfeller is a twat > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:56

It sure seems so, now lets hope that further steps are taken to avoid more of these situations

fintail > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 15:58

The “kids with big trucks” line seems to be crossing into affluenza lines of thought (also in TX, shocking) . I bet some crappy parenting is behind this, too.

ttyymmnn > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
09/10/2019 at 15:58

So I am supposed to temper my criticism because we all did crazy shit and didn’t kill somebody? I can’t speak for you, but yes, I did crazy stuff, but I don’t recall ever putting other people’s lives directly in danger though reckless behavior and a callous disregard for human life.

If you want to go down that road, then I will blame his parents for not teaching him responsibility and the value of human life, something I try to instill in my boys every day.

ttyymmnn > Spanfeller is a twat
09/10/2019 at 15:59

Such as?

ttyymmnn > fintail
09/10/2019 at 15:59

I bet some crappy parenting is behind this, too.

I just said as much in another reply.

Verdog ~ manual Bro, Bro - HellHawk Equipped > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 16:00

I went to Jury Duty yesterday and this was one of the cases they were impaneling for. Luckily I ended up being extra.

ttyymmnn > Verdog ~ manual Bro, Bro - HellHawk Equipped
09/10/2019 at 16:01

I got lucky last time and all of the jurors were sent home because the case settled at the last minute. If I had been in this jury, I would have gotten in trouble because as soon as the lawyer uttered those words I would have shouted “Bull-fucking-shit!”

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 16:02

Yes, and that’s why you are being convicted of manslaughter and gross negligence instead of murder. Enjoy prison.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
09/10/2019 at 16:03

You are absolutely correct.

Spanfeller is a twat > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 16:04

P robably changes to the way driver’s licenses are issued, and the types of restriction new drivers should have... I also believe that when you originally posted about this a long time ago (maybe it wasn’t you?) I suggested that pickup trucks that are not destined to commercial use should be heavily taxed.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 16:07

One night when I was 18, I drank a bunch of boilermakers and drove my mom’s car off the freeway onramp and the car had to be towed out of the ditch. I guess I blacked out. I got a DUI. I was then currently enrolled in the Delayed Entry Program for the US Army. I was set to become a Cobra helicopter repairer. The DUI disqualified me from that. ‘Tis but one really dumbshitted thing I did at that age that I thank my lucky stars for on a recurring basis, even now, that things did not turn out differently. Not sure how comparable this is to the two rubes in your original post, but it speaks clearly, I think, to what Long Voyager is talking about. Bad Judgment + Good Luck = Not-so-bad Outcome. Bad Judgment + Bad Luck = Bad Outcome.

jimz > benjrblant
09/10/2019 at 16:08

In a “A Modest Proposal” kind of way, maybe males in this society should be sequestered away from, oh, puberty until age 25. I’d bet we’d see reckless and violent criminal behavior become all but unheard of.

Verdog ~ manual Bro, Bro - HellHawk Equipped > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 16:08

Y up, they pulled 98 potential jurors for this trial alone . I immediately went home and searched the 277th docket and found this. Relieved I am at work for once!

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
09/10/2019 at 16:13

But the Good Luck vs Bad Luck does not excuse the Bad Judgment.

benjrblant > jimz
09/10/2019 at 16:15

Naw, you’d probably just see more 25+ y/o guys getting into the trouble they would’ve done at age 18.

someassemblyrequired > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 16:18

You should be limited to a low-HP car for the first couple of years of driving. We did dumb stuff when we were kids but it was in 68HP Escorts and 90HP Sunbirds that limited the ramifications.

shop-teacher > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 16:32

As a lifelong racing fan, street racing got me worked up long before I had a family. It certainly works me up even more, now that I have one.

Let me put it this way though: W hen I was a kid ... maybe 4-years old ... my grandma once said to my mom, “Christ, I hope he never becomes a judge. He’ll be a hanging judge.”

BigBlock440 > someassemblyrequired
09/10/2019 at 17:02

A 68 hp Escort will still kill someone just as dead if you hit them at 50+

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 17:04

“Hayden acted immaturely,” Nickle said. “He acted like young kids with big trucks do.”

All the more reason to throw him in jail. Let it be a lesson for all the “boys being boys” types out there . Let them learn that actions have consequences.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 17:06

“He acted like young kids with big trucks do.”

Um, no, that’s not how they act; I can provide counterexamples. That’s when the judge pulls out his taser and tases council.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 17:07

The whole thing makes me ill.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail
09/10/2019 at 17:12

Affluenza ... As an educator, I see parents of every stripe trying to shift the inertia away from accountability for young people..

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > BigBlock440
09/10/2019 at 17:22

A 68 hp Escort also lacks the power and response to encourage bad driving. If you have a hammer that hates being used and whines every time you pick it up, it’s less likely to hurt you than a hammer that feels great, goads you on and makes satisfying, metallic “P ing!” noises on every nail .

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > ttyymmnn
09/10/2019 at 17:29

I’m expecting the usual slap on the wrist plus early parole for “good behavior.”

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > someassemblyrequired
09/10/2019 at 17:34

I think a provisional license is very useful, limiting immature drivers to the types of cars that they can use as a “primary driver.” I did a lot of stupid crap, and the power surge of a V6 coming on cam was addictive. Looking back, I didn’t deserve that much power.

ttyymmnn > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
09/10/2019 at 17:48

It’s easy to be cynical these days, isn’t it?

someassemblyrequired > BigBlock440
09/10/2019 at 18:17

Yeah this is absolutely true, but any kid in my hometown that got the latest/greatest high-power vehicle crashed within months, often with fatal consequences.

DipodomysDeserti > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
09/10/2019 at 18:31

I was once a teen and I’ve taught high school for over six years. It’s actually only a select few assholes that do stuff like this and an even more elite group who manage to kill people doing it.

Most teens don’t actually exhibit this level of assholery.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
09/10/2019 at 19:01

The important question: how much is in your parents bank account ?

jimz > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
09/10/2019 at 19:19

I’m just tired of the “you can’t criticize people like him because you did dumb stuff too at that age” trope. It’s bullshit.

ranwhenparked > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
09/10/2019 at 20:25

I can honestly say I never killed two people when I was 18, or did anything that endangered anyone’s lives to the extent that death was a distinct possibility.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jimz
09/10/2019 at 20:25

I hope that's not how my comment came across because my behavior was also very risky, but I was fortunate. Very fortunate, as were and are my parents and my children. Very fortunate, along with all the people I did not accidentally slaughter.

fintail > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
09/10/2019 at 22:13

But some will have better luck getting the legal system on their side. It goes all the way to the White House these day s.

I believe in an apples and trees relationship for shitty kids and parents.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > fintail
09/10/2019 at 23:06

The apple falling close...

I’d never heard that saying before I became a teacher.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > DipodomysDeserti
09/11/2019 at 06:55

All it takes is that one missed judgement on a corner, or going a little too fast over a blind hill that veers, etc and it could have been someone’s life as well. If you ever screwed around in a vehicle, it could have been you.

It’s something that once you get older you look back and think, “ wow, that could have ended terribly ” , but in the heat of the moment, it seemed safe enough. We all seem to forget these things once we get older, or look back on our dumb times fondly without criticizing what could have went wrong.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ttyymmnn
09/11/2019 at 07:09

We all like to look back at the dumb things we did as teens as “good times”, yet many of those things put other people in danger, be it direct or indirect, doesn’t matter. I’m sure at the time it seemed like a harmless little pull to them, w hich had the woman not pulled out in front of them, it would have been.

I would put money down that NO ONE here can honestly say they never took a corner a little fast, or did a pull somewhere, or did a little run with a friend, etc. All of which seemed harmless behavior at the time, but had a car appeared where it wasn’t planned to be/had you lost control/etc , realize it could have easily been you as well.

I’m not arguing this isn’t tragic, I’m not arguing this kid doesn’t deserve to be hit with the book, I’m just sick of people thinking they’re above this stuff.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > someassemblyrequired
09/11/2019 at 07:25

False,

Signed,

S omeone who had a 90 hp Buick Century.

The lack of power made it even more fun to push that car to the max.

When I got the key to my ex-gf’s dad’s Malibu wagon however, I was damn careful about where and when I decided to call on that built 502's power.

someassemblyrequired > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
09/11/2019 at 09:19

All these kids know is the equivalent of built 502s. They haven’t had to keep an Iron Duke on point through the twisties.

I think you learn car control better from a crap can - momentum, lines, efficient/ timely braking that you don’t get with virtually unlimited power.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > ttyymmnn
09/11/2019 at 11:31

Cynical doesn’t have to be wrong

ttyymmnn > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick)
09/11/2019 at 11:32

No, but it would be nice if we could hope for the best and not always expect the worst.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > shop-teacher
09/11/2019 at 11:44

Street racing is garbage and for garbage people, especially that dip-shit road raging ‘who can go faster’ racing which is actually just them playing chicken against their own sense of self preservation and the odds of the universe and physics. It’s not who’s faster, just who is more willing to break the law.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > ttyymmnn
09/11/2019 at 11:49

Kinja'd!!!

pip bip - choose Corrour > ttyymmnn
09/12/2019 at 06:23

hang th em all