Porsche made a Panamera with a Battery, great.

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer)
09/04/2019 at 13:00 • Filed to: None

Now that other luxury manufactures will come out with very expensive and very powerful electric cars, will we finally recognize the Tesla model S P100D as the Chevy SS of electric cars?

Will we also be inclined to love it? Because it is a barebones performance electric car? No luxury interiors, or brand bragging, or very stupid expensive optional extras.... Will we like it since it became.... the underdog?

DISCUSSION (25)

Future next gen S2000 owner > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:12

I don’t think so. Tesla runs in the luxury segment or tries to. Maybe BMW levels comparatively speaking with Porsche?

AestheticsInMotion > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:12

Unless things go very wrong I can’t imagine Tesla ever being an underdog in the electric space.

Maybe the Taycan will be a huge hit, maybe it will be a massive flop. My guess is that either way it won’t even dent the aspirational brand appeal that Tesla has gained.

Spanfeller is a twat > Future next gen S2000 owner
09/04/2019 at 13:17

The Taycan TS has similar a similar power output, and a similar battery size, as the P100D, yet it can cost tens of thousands of dollars more... The Model S in that sense is just a Taycan without the Porsche luxury.... and it shows.

since Tesla’s original goal was selling electric cars to as many people as pos sible, I don’t think they actually want to corner the luxury market that much... Their cars are expensive because electric car components are expensive... we confused it with luxury but really, the interiors are comparable to those of a well specked Accord.

412GTI > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:18

Did we really expect it to be anything more than a Panamera with a battery? I think the Model S will still remain known as the originator although I’m curious to see where it’s futures lies. It really needs a major update.

Ash78, voting early and often > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:18

I don’t think Tesla can ever be considered the underdog of anything at this point. To me, they have more brand “baggage” than Porsche, by far — while their prices are not totally out of reach for a Model 3 , the bombast of Musk, the internet-fueled cult attitude , and the inherent e- litism in their early adopters will be a big hurdle there.

I personally know 3 owners and all are very cool people. I’m just talking about the bigger brand here.

Spanfeller is a twat > AestheticsInMotion
09/04/2019 at 13:18

Tesla’s edge is being the only sort-of mainstream manufacturer of EVs, but they have glaring issues.

As soon as non-branded fast chargers are common across the US, I think Tesla will have less of an edge... The Supercharger network though is impressive.

Spanfeller is a twat > 412GTI
09/04/2019 at 13:19

Tesla could really squeeze a lot more money out of the MK2 Model S if they make it correctly, but I’m willing to bet that their focus is set overwhelmingly on the Model Y

Spanfeller is a twat > Ash78, voting early and often
09/04/2019 at 13:21

Not Tesla itself, the Model S next to the rest of the future competitors.

What amazed me the most about the Taycan wasn’t even about it... but about Tesla and how the Model S is so much cheaper even with similar performance.

412GTI > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:21

As it should be with the crossover craze happening.

AestheticsInMotion > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:27

I think their edge is more in quite literally staying on the cutting edge, and again in the brand appeal, with everyone from their 20's up to the elderly seeing Teslas as *the* car to aspire to . It’s the brand appeal that BMW used to have.

This is Porsches first (real) foray into the m arket, against a Model S that is significantly cheaper and likely soon to be replaced with a new model. If I was Porsche I probably would have instead made a model X competitor out the gate. Seems like it would have been much easier to compete with than the model S that for all its flaws has just been getting better and better as the years go by.

Ash78, voting early and often > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:31

Yep, it’s all relative now! My initial thoughts were “How unoriginal, Porsche just copied the Model S and didn’t even bother changing the design much.”

But I still think that a year from now, if I see a $100k Model S next to a $150k Taycan, I’m subconsciously judging the Tesla a lot more harshly.

Still, Porsche really phoned this one in.

Grindintosecond > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:35

If Volvo built Accord interiors....you'd have a Tesla experience.

Spanfeller is a twat > AestheticsInMotion
09/04/2019 at 13:38

Model Y competitor with a macan sized SUV maybe?

I understand your point of view, and I agree to an extent. But aspirational cars don’t always get the sort of sales that established brands get... When someone who has had two or three Panameras sees the Taycan in the dealership, they might look at the Model S, but Porsche makes car that have such a superior craftsmanship to Tesla... that I don’t think the price difference is enough .

Maybe it would benefit Porsche if we saw the Model S in another category, but as Motortrend showed with their Bentayga vs Model X review; In those price levels what matters is having “the craziest” car... and in this case I think the VWAG product would win....

USUSGTO > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:48

To survive, by taking advantage of the “ crossover craze”, their “focus” should mainly be on Model Y.

Mo del S is getting long in the tooth, but it’s not gonna sell in as many numbers as the Y and 3 will.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:51

IMO we’re in a strange place right now. Tesla has shown there is a market for EVs with enough range to be a primary vehicle for a lot of people, and they’ve sold a lot of them. However, the Apple-like hype around the Model 3 and things like people camping out to reserve one hasn’t pushed any other car companies to go all-in on EVs yet. Everyone seems to be playing the wait-and-see game, each waiting for someone else to go first and find out whether the market for EVs is much bigger than the Elon Musk Fan Club. I’m not sure if it is or not. Pretty much every EV not named “Tesla Model 3" has been a slow seller. my next car will very likely be an EV but I’m not sure that one will be a huge seller either.

time will tell.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 13:53

IIRC Elon said they’re not developing a new Model S.

jimz > Future next gen S2000 owner
09/04/2019 at 13:54

they’re definitely priced in that segment, but I wouldn’t call them “luxury” as typically defined. I’ve been in and around a couple of Model Xs in the past; granted they were early ones but I could tell they spent most of the money on the battery and those stupid doors that barely work .

Future next gen S2000 owner > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 14:28

... we confused it with luxury but really, the interiors are comparable to those of a well specked Accord.

That’s a bad thing. When you play north of 100K, I don’t care how much your battery costs, you are in the luxury category or very high end sports car. Many times those overlap. Spend another 2-5K on the interior if needed.

Also, if Tesla’s goal was to sell as many electric cars to as many people as possible, their business doesn’t follow that goal. They have one car that is almost within reach of the average customer. They are a BMW/MB/Audi level competitor. Not a Chevy/Ford/VW level.

Future next gen S2000 owner > jimz
09/04/2019 at 14:31

Model X’s start at what, 90k? Spend 2 more on interior materials if needed. No one will complain about the 2K bump in base. If they aren’t luxury, what are they? Pl us Musk has talked great lengths about battery cost reductions due to the gigafactory. Most of the money may be wrapped up in the battery but that doesn’t excuse poor interiors when you charge people more than 100K.

RutRut > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 14:34

Without the Porsche luxury... or quality. Or reliability. Or support network.

jimz > Future next gen S2000 owner
09/04/2019 at 14:38

problem is that costs in the car industry don’t work that way. putting another $2,000 on the BOM means you pretty much have to put another $10,000 on the sticker in order to pay for everything (ED&T, tooling, etc.)

Spanfeller is a twat > RutRut
09/04/2019 at 14:50

In that regard, Tesla has much more experience with electric vehicles, and their battery tech is well respected across the industry.... also the Taycan has a gearbox.... which could be an issue in the long run

RutRut > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 14:58

I am a full on Tesla hater, just to get that out of the way. I think they have a really solid power train, I have super low levels of confidence on the other 80% of the car. I’m probably two cars away from an EV depending on how the infrastructure grows locally, but I would never own a Tesla. I picture getting service parts to be a nightmare with how they make running changes and the build quality they turn out.

Future next gen S2000 owner > jimz
09/04/2019 at 15:14

I get that but if you had decided on luxury levels of materials from the beginning you wouldn’t incur those additional costs. Better leather, better plastics.....

Nick Has an Exocet > Spanfeller is a twat
09/04/2019 at 19:27

I am totally not the buyer for this kind of car. I would guess that most of oppo isn't either. In imagine we're going to find the market for ridiculously fast EV sedans is smaller than people think. I am waiting for someone to just come out and completely beetle the crap out of electric vehicles with a 600 mile range crossover or something.