The Porsche Cayman is flawed - and it's not just the engine

"Discerning" (discerning2003c5z) 09/02/2019 at 10:59 • Filed to: None

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People like to bring up how Porsche has purposely limited the potential of the Cayman and Boxster by giving them less powerful engines compared to the 911.

And it isn’t unfair to bring up how the larger and more powerful engines would have easily fit into the 911's younger siblings. There are even third party companies that will take your 981 and drop a 3.8l 9a1 from a 911 in front of the shock towers.

Speaking of shock towers, there is a lesser known and more disappointing disadvantage that Porsche shafted the Cayman with... the rear suspension.

The rear suspension on the Cayman is flawed and arguably inferior to the 911 and other mid and rear engine cars.

Porsche advertises the car as having a multilink setup, but that isn’t exactly true. It doesn’t have a double wishbone setup like the upcoming C8 or a true multilink setup like the 911. It essentially has a Chapman strut suspension (of sorts).

Here’s a diagram of the Cayman suspension:

And here’s the 996/997 for comparison:

The cayman relies on the strut to control the upper portion of the hub carrier and the movements of the chassis as the car experiences changes in lateral and vertical movement. The movement isn’t controlled by upper arms like in a multilink or wishbone setup- it is instead held in place by the strut itself. What this means is that the Cayman is vulnerable to camber changes when the suspension is loaded or unloaded. This can happen in elevation changes, heavy braking, or even just corner entry and corner man uevering- as the weight shifts from left to right and up and down in the rear. The end result can be a light feeling or a loss of traction (tail happy when pushed hard).

The likely reasoning for this decision was cost savings. The rear suspension has less parts and the components themselves are basically reversed front end pieces. They upgraded the rear for the GT4 a little, but it still isn’t a true multilink. Some believe the reason was packaging related, but the aftermarket has disproved that by offering (very costly) multilink kits for the GT4.

A stock cayman with an average driver that’s going 8/10th’ s likely won’t notice or care about these shortcomings. Even most editorials haven’t found issue with the stock suspension and they rave about the car’s handling.

But it’s a slightly different story on the forums and at the track, where the P-car folks upgrade tires and suspension and push the car towards 10/10th’ s. Discussions about high speed cornering manners, instability during hard braking and over bumps, and occasional skittishness come up.

I very much like every iteration of the Cayman and most all p-cars in general. I even kind of like the sound of the 718's flat four. But I hope that Porsche starts to fit the Cayman with better suspension. Maybe even the C8 will drive them to upgrade some things. Maybe some day the Cayman will have double wishbones front and rear like Porsche’s race cars. Heck, maybe they will just make the 911 mid engine like the 911 RSR and then fit the front with wishbones....... ha

The Cayman is awesome, but it could certainly be better and Porsche already knows how to do it - so come on already, Porsche.

Discerning > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 11:41

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Still can't seem to publish anything from my phone without my phone or Kinja messing up words and entire sentences.

ST80MND > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 11:44

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From where I stand, the only downfall of the Cayman is that I don’t have one. So, ya, poo on you Porsche.

Discerning > ST80MND 09/02/2019 at 11:46

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Agreed. It's still just about the best sports car offering out there and I love them.

TheJWT > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 11:49

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A few years ago I got to drive a 991 GT3 and a Cayman GT4. I’d take the GT4 any day of the week

404 - User No Longer Available > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 11:50

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The rear suspension has less parts and the components themselves are basically reversed front end pieces. 

So was that where Jeremy Clarkson’s joke about the Boxster facing the wrong way came from?

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 11:52

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Can’t make the Cayman/Boxster as good as the 911...

Discerning > 404 - User No Longer Available 09/02/2019 at 11:56

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Ha! That would be amusing, but I would be surprised if he looked that deep into it.

The hub carrier,

I was going to fit in a pic of the front suspension to illustrate my point, but I thought it would be overkill. But you can see what I mean from these pics (courtesy of elephant racing):

The 911 does this a little too with the lower control arms.

Rear:

Front:

Discerning > TheJWT 09/02/2019 at 11:58

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Well the weight distribution of the cayman is a huge advantage over having 63% or so in the rear. That alone makes it superior to the 911. I’m just saying that it could be better, Porsche knows how to make it better, but they just choose not to.

A cayman with a true multilink in the rear would be even better than what we have now - and I would fully support that decision 

Discerning > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras 09/02/2019 at 12:02

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The cayman is the perfect size, has great looks, and is fast and handles well even with Porsche management’s questionable decisions.

If it didn’t mean pumping as depreciating asset with an unreasonable amount of money, I would have a 981 cayman with a 3.8l X51 swap and a modified suspension out of a GT4.

Or maybe just a GT4 with a multilink kit (8 grand) and a near gear set in the transmission (10 grand).

A nyone want to loan me 100k plus or minus a 10k?

Jordan > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 13:50

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The Boxster/ Cayman has always been the entry level “real” Porsche (we shall not speak of the Macan). If they gave it a multilink rear suspension, it c ould end up being almost as expensive as the 911 once options are added . 

Discerning > Jordan 09/02/2019 at 14:01

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How much cost could be added by going multilink? It would seem to me that it wouldn't be substantial enough to cause concern for customers. 

speedyboi > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 15:15

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How do we know that the influence of the drivetrain position does not affect rear suspension geometry?

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 15:26

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TIL. now you conviced me i need a 997

gettingoldercarguy > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 15:50

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How much would it cost and how much Porsche would charge are two different things.

gin-san - shitpost specialist > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 17:02

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Pretty cool, I didn’t know any of this. 

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 17:39

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Good write up and explanation. Still don’t care; totally want a GTS in about 5 or so years. (In the very least, 10 years, as my daughter will tell you with full confidence she is getting my 996 when she can drive). I’m hoping the 718 GTSes go unappreciated and Un loved.

Poor_Sh > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 17:42

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I wonder if this is what I’m feeling. I’ve tracked my 14 Cayman S this summer and I just keep feeling like the tail is light when everyone tells me it should be digging into the turn. I chalked it up to tires, and I’m still going to assume that’s somewhat accurate given I have PS4S fronts and NT555 rears. But, it would be nice to know it may not all be because I got a puncture and had to replace my rears with whatever they had that was close.

Also, I’m not a very good track driver lol super smooth but brake to early and accelerate too late. Little scared when I’m always feeling like I might spin like I did at autocross.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 17:45

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Ask owners of older Porsches about depreciation...

or the inverse of it that they are enjoying.

Discerning > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/02/2019 at 18:36

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This is mostly true. The Cayman and boxster don't seem to enjoy this as much as the 911 folks, but I think the 981 and 987 have actually held value pretty well.

Discerning > Poor_Sh 09/02/2019 at 18:41

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It could be. I first heard about the issue when owners were discussing why the car gets light in the back under hard braking. I’ve heard everything from changing toe to adjusting spring rate. But I don’t know what works definitively. Wouldn’t hurt to hit up planet-9 or ren nlist

Discerning > speedyboi 09/02/2019 at 18:48

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I mean, it’s possible, but it seems there is plenty of room. The strut towers and subframe sit behind the engine, so the transmission is the major piece that would be in the way - which is the same that can be said of the 911. A third party company made a multi link setup for the cayman gt4. Also, Porsche themselves have made a mid engine short wheelbase car with multi link in the 991 gt3 rsr race car. That's obviously a race car, but it doesn't seem realistic that porsche couldn't make the car multilink. The dog bones don't take up that much room.

Discerning > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 09/02/2019 at 18:50

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I am a big fan of all of the Porsche stuff. You can’t go wrong with a 997, though look out for the m97 997.1 ims issue (engine out procedure unlike 996).

Despite the shortcomings of the rear suspension, the 981 and 987 are very planted and just as quick as the 997 around most tracks - even with the power disadvantage.

Discerning > gettingoldercarguy 09/02/2019 at 18:52

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True. Knowing Porsche, they would only apply it to an even more limited run car (gt5?) and unnecessarily limit production to 500 units to insure I will never be able to afford one.

Porsche’s decisions are frustrating, but they manage to move their cars and I suppose that's all they care about.

Discerning > gin-san - shitpost specialist 09/02/2019 at 18:55

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I learned it a while ago and it has come up in some random editorials but it rarely gets any attention . I think it was car and driver that actually asked Porsche why the first gt4 didn’t have multilink in the rear and Porsche replied that they felt it didn’t need it.

That said, there are plenty of GT4 owners who probably wish the car had multilink based on some of the stuff I’ve read on some of the boards.

Discerning > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 09/02/2019 at 18:57

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I really like the 718. I got to drive a Cayman s with a pdk and it was fantastic. The power delivery was great and the acceleration was exceptional. I even kind of liked the sound. Didn’t sound as great as the 6's, but not much does. BUT, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t sound good. Just different.

gettingoldercarguy > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 18:57

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You’re right, I failed to even factor in the collecting never driving asshats who only want to make a buck on a machine meant to be driven.

Discerning > gettingoldercarguy 09/02/2019 at 19:02

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Every time I see a 996 gt3 going for 75k or a 997 gt3 sell for 100k, I internally shake my head. Cars that were nearly attainable 5 years ago have been driven up in price by the air cooled boom and the continued artificial scarcity of the existing GT cars.

Now people buy up the new cars and sell them for a premium on the used market since porsche doesn’t allow markups. It's isappointing.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 19:43

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yeah. 911s always seem to level off at 30k. whereas boxsters will drop. I’m hoping the 992 introduction will drive down prices a bit in a couple years as owners ditch the 997/991.

Boxster/cayman are great looking for a backseat if more than one person or stuff is tagging along. 

rdtrash > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 20:06

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I own a 981 and a 991 . The Cayman handles better than the 911 hands down. Period. End of story.

Discerning > rdtrash 09/02/2019 at 20:52

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I’m sure it does. But that likely has much more to do with the weight distribution.

The Cayman would benefit from a multi link setup. But it unfortunately doesn't have one

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 22:36

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standard or S... high volume models, yeah, not so much appreciation.

But talking Boxster Spyder or Cayman GT4... I wonder if depreciation will ever dip below what a standard new boxster stickers for, before heading upward as a classic.

shirosake > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 22:38

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Youre grasping my friend.

Love, a 981CS owner.

Watduhdamnhell > Discerning 09/02/2019 at 22:48

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I drove a Cayman and it was great. So my only real problem with Porsche is just how God damned ugly they made it. Why!? 

Discerning > shirosake 09/02/2019 at 23:25

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I’m not your friend, pal.

No grasping going on - not in front of the children, anyway.

Simple technical discussion. Let me know if there’s something you didn’t understand.

Sincerely, recreational car researcher and garbage poster. 

Discerning > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/02/2019 at 23:27

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Yeah, the special models will do well. Even the lesser special models like the R are holding on well. 

Discerning > Watduhdamnhell 09/02/2019 at 23:28

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I think the 981 and 718 look fantastic. The 987 is less attractive, but still good looking in my opinion

Saracen > Watduhdamnhell 09/03/2019 at 01:53

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Your kinja handle precisely describes any sane person’s reaction to your opinion of the Cayman’s looks.

Saracen > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 02:00

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997 owner, test drove a 718 GTS. Loved it, and agree  with you on the sound. But decided it wasn’t worth selling my car and forking over another $50k.

Resipsa > ST80MND 09/03/2019 at 03:59

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I've spent many years working to own a Porsche.  From a 1957 all up thru a 2005 997S.  What irritates me is all the factory design flaws.  All 356's got cracked VW differential housings & spline failure rear drums.  Then early 911s all were ready for chain tensioner collapse.  Then, 915 5 speed issues.  Tiptronic issues.  IMS bearing issues thru 997.1 or 2008.  Haven't had anything newer, like a 997.2 because I got stuck with a good, dependable & in expensive to work on 1967 Corvette.  It isnt very comfortable for me but it sure is fun.

Oppenheimer - not missing my shitboxes anymore > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 06:34

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Thank you, I like posts with a technical insight!

bhtooefr > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 07:02

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Note that Porsche even makes a Cayman with what they at least claim is double wishbone rear suspension:

(You can’t see the upper control arm, but that shock angle doesn’t seem like it’d work right in a Chapman strut layout.)

Harbski > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 07:03

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2 Porsche guy. Porsche will have upgrade the Cayman because the competition just got better for a lot less money. At 60k for a C8 and 52k for the Supra, Cayman just got o ver priced.

Discerning > Saracen 09/03/2019 at 07:22

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It’s a little insane how expensive new cars are. I'm probably going to stick to used again in the foreseeable future

Discerning > Oppenheimer - not missing my shitboxes anymore 09/03/2019 at 07:23

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Thanks!

MachtSchnell > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 07:26

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The 914 had the same problem.  Just not stable at more than 8/10ths.

Discerning > bhtooefr 09/03/2019 at 07:26

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Yeah, I get why they do it. That class allows for a lot of flexibility with engine location and suspension geometry. I still like that class but I’ve been leaning more toward the amateur class lately since the cars are closer to production versions.

There were periods of time when the cars were closer to production versions though and I hope it actually goes back to that on the future. 

MachtSchnell > rdtrash 09/03/2019 at 07:26

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On the trsck?

MachtSchnell > Poor_Sh 09/03/2019 at 07:32

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Need to put PS 4S all a r ound. Different break away charscteristics front and re ar is a formula for disaster at high G loads.

Snooder87 > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 08:45

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I suspect that boxster and Cayman depreciation is artificially inflated by the IMS issue. In the future my feeling is theyll be more like lotus Elise and Exiges where they drop to like 25/30k and then stay there forever.

ihm96 > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 10:19

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Is the GT4 any better on the track with the sketchy characteristics you describe?

I love my clownshoe but it suffers a similar fate of old school rear suspension letting it down. The E30 rear setup can get very twitchy lol, took me well over a year before I could comfortably turn DSC off

Future next gen S2000 owner > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 11:22

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This is a reasonable take. Subtle, nuanced, and informed.....What is wrong with you? Sicko.

Discerning > ihm96 09/03/2019 at 11:22

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Yeah, it comes up on the GT4 boards. You can combat it with adjustments to toe and spring rates, but I don't know how effective that is.

Discerning > Future next gen S2000 owner 09/03/2019 at 11:23

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I love P-cars and most everything that competes with them (corvettes, vipers, etc - owned a c5z).

But  I can’t help but look at cars objectively. I love the Cayman, but it could be better.

Discerning > Snooder87 09/03/2019 at 11:25

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I agree. Even with the problems the M96 and M97 face, those cars have plateaued. Some of them have even gone back up in price. A good condition 996 C4S, 40th anniversary 996, and some others have gone up.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > TheJWT 09/03/2019 at 11:40

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Luck-ey...

Did you drive it on public roads? How harsh was the ride over rough stuff?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 11:41

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Just wait for the global recession, I guess?

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > shirosake 09/03/2019 at 11:45

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I read CS as “Clubsport” for a second...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Harbski 09/03/2019 at 11:45

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Hope you’re right!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 11:47

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This fellow mad e an account and make his first comment because of you. LOL

Porsche Monk > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/03/2019 at 11:56

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Go look at autotrader, I think the GT4 was made in much higher numbers than the S/GTS. But shhh, if you repeat that too much Porsche won't be able to keep up the GT car racket.

Porsche Monk > Snooder87 09/03/2019 at 11:58

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It seems the 987.2 models are holding up well, especially in S/6MT configuration.

dogisbadob > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 12:13

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Yup, Porsche is jealous that the Boxster/Cayman is better than the 911, so they had to cripple it

Discerning > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/03/2019 at 12:15

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I saw that! I felt  simultaneously honored and concerned (that others may do the same). The P crowd can be a serious bunch.

Discerning > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/03/2019 at 12:15

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Fi ngers crossed people move onto other things, but I have my doubts.

Discerning > dogisbadob 09/03/2019 at 12:16

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They got to cripple it and i ncrease margins. Win win!

bhtooefr > Discerning 09/03/2019 at 15:07

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GTE-Am is just year-old GTE-Pro cars (so the GTE-Am Porsche teams have the mid-engine 911 RSRs now).

Unless you mean IMSA GTD (which is GT3) versus GTLM (which is GTE-Pro)?

Discerning > bhtooefr 09/03/2019 at 15:25

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Yeah, I was referring to IMSA GTD. I go to Petit Le Mans and the Daytona 24 hours just about every year.

I still enjoy the factory teams, but I feel like the GTD stuff is more exciting lately. I also really like how similar the GT3 R is to the road car GT3 RS, for example. Though now for 2019 the GT3 R utilizes wishbone suspension. I guess only the cup cars are the closest thing to the production car. Those are still basically factory race car equivalents of the production cars. But I don’t enjoy watching a single manufacturer run all that much.

The RSR in contrast is very different from the production car. Same goes for the C7R. They’re still fun to watch though.

Poor_Sh > MachtSchnell 09/03/2019 at 18:03

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Yeah, I know. But these are fine for my skill level now. No big issues and I'm sure the rears will be dead soon anyway.

TheJWT > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 09/03/2019 at 19:43

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They were both during my time working at CCC Manhattan. It was a while ago so I don’t remember well but the GT4 definitely made more of an impression on me.

bhtooefr > Discerning 09/04/2019 at 08:54

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There’s always watching GT4, too, if you want closer to production in a multi-manufacturer class... but it’s actually Caymans there, instead of 911s. In IMSA competition, that would be Michelin Pilot Challenge in the GS class (with TCR being the other class). Alternately, there would also be Pirelli GT4 America, a support series to Blancpain GT World Challenge America.

Discerning > bhtooefr 09/04/2019 at 09:11

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I I sometimes watch the other races but they aren’t quite as exciting as the main series with their eally broad range of performance on the track. Plus I really like the endurance aspect that road Atlanta and Daytona bring. But I do watch them from time to time

bhtooefr > Discerning 09/04/2019 at 10:44

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Oh, and while it isn’t prototype-based, if you want endurance... there is the California 8 Hours at Laguna Seca (with both GT3 and GT4 on track), although it’ll be replaced by the Indianapolis 8 Hours next year.