Tell me again how unions are the good guys

"ImmoralMinority" (araimondo) 08/29/2019 at 10:25 • Filed to: None

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“We promise our new leaders are only interested in the welfare of the members.” Suuuure. Corporate unions are a scourge. Corruption flows from forced dues.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/28/business/uaw-fbi-raid.html

Maxima Speed > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:29

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Don’t be look at me. I despise unions.

fintail > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:32

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Well, they’d only be an issue had ownership behaved responsibly back in the bad old days. Instead, they were abusive and people organized. Corruption also flows from dynastic wealth and stagnant socio-economic mobility (which is where we are headed again). I suppose it is a pendulum. Unfortunately, due to the very American idea of TEM Syndrome, I don’t know if that pendulum will ever swing back.  Power corrupts, but without such organization in the past, we’d be worse off today.

Sadly, the so-called right refuses to address the elephant in the room, that being the most abusive organized labor group in the land, the badge-flashing warrior hero club. Corporate unions pale in comparison to what some public sector groups get away with.  But the tough strong patriot real Americans won’t touch those.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:32

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Frank Sobotka was ostensibly good? 

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:35

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No entity is inherently good...I don’t know why you insist on having this argument every time. I know you’ve dealt with a lot of shitty unions and union reps, but this is a bad faith argument.

I mean, can you tell me how corporations/companies  are the good guys then?

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:37

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All I have is that the Force requires Balance...or some shit.

However, just because your enemies get their comeuppance...it doesn't make us any better.

Party-vi > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:37

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Besides giving us wide spread employer-based health coverage, weekends, the FMLA, ending child labor in the US, a 40 hour work week, reducing wage inequality, raise wages for low-skilled workers by about 20%, worker’s comp, whistleblower protection laws, OSHA, overtime pay, breaks at work, sick leave, pregnancy and parental leave, paid vacation, Unions are scum.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:39

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The idea of unions is not necessarily bad, as it allows disparate groups to leverage their numbers to gain a better bargaining position, but in reality it seems like a lot of the money coming in doesn’t get to where it’s earmarked. But you could have this situation in any organization.

My old man was a UAW member for many many years, sometimes the union did good for him and his coworkers, and other times not so much, but I still think the ideal of a union isn’t a bad thing, but it has to be setup and managed properly.

vondon302 > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:40

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Do we even have good guys anymore?

Hell I’ll take a mediocre leader at this point if they have integrity.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:46

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If it weren’t for a union, I’d have had my pension and healthcare strip ped away by my employer this year.

user314 > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:49

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Future next gen S2000 owner > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:49

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I think Unions are a bit like communism. In theory, they are amazing. People in charge realize they can get a better life through schmoozing and abuse of power.

The power union leaders have corrupts them. Just like everyone else in power.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:49

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Tell me again how corporations are the good guys???

How about you stop bashing unions and make the correct statement that CORRUPTION is the issue; whether it be corporate or union or anything else.

Inequality always leads to corruption. When people think they are too far above (better than) others, they feel they can get away with treating anyone ‘beneath’ them differently.

The scales need adjusted downward again.

jimz > user314 08/29/2019 at 10:54

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the UAW isn’t what let the Japanese gain such a strong foothold.  it was corporate arrogance and unwillingness to adapt to a changing market.  The Japanese business mentality back then was “we look at where the other companies are making mistakes, and build products which don’t have those mistakes.”  it’s the same reason Apple took over the world with the iPod and iPhone; they looked at all of the music players and smartphones out there, said “all of these things suck.  we’ll make one that doesn’t suck.” 

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 10:55

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I will say one thing, in construction, there are some decent unions out there that actually train their workers and provide a decent pension when they’ve put in their time. And as a Contractor, we know we can get qualified operators or carpenters when needed, well mostly.... a bit of a shortage at the moment, but the idea is there and they do train the workers.

But on the other side of that coin, a few years back the president of the operators union got into some trouble similar to the UAW guys here.  But they did provide some services for the workforce and the members.  Now if the corruption could be stamped out, it would be a much better situation.  

imadick > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 11:04

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My issues with unions are that often the leadership are corrupt and only look out for their best interests rather than the interests of the members. A union needs to have term limits and oversight on leadership to counteract this. My second issue is unions usually protect incompetent workers that need to be shown the door, and usually work solely on seniority rather than competence .

nermal > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 11:04

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Something something power (and $$$) corrupts, so on and so forth.

These are the same people that were caught exchang ing $40k pens with the FCA “negotiator s” . You shouldn’t be surprised that it happened, but you should be surprised if you are surprised. 

Poor_Sh > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 11:16

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Thoughts on federal employee unions like NAGE and AFGE? I honestly don’t really know or pay attention enough about this stuff so just wondering if those are different since they don’t have forced dues or a corporate structure (at least to my knowledge).

AestheticsInMotion > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 11:28

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I joined my current company as a tile layer apprentice s o I can learn how to remodel my bathroom. 18/h certainly seems fair for a job that requires nothing but good work ethic and provides tons of training.

That said.... As soon as this company unionizes, I instantly get bumped up to $25/h, with an additional $5-9/h to cover Healthcare costs (or whatever) a s I see fit, access to numerous training programs, and a well-defined schedule of raises. So in this case at least, unionization would turn this current job that I joined just to learn skills, into a job that I could actually live comfortably on and turn into a career, if I so desired.

My only other time as a union employee was as a minor, where I recall reading through the union benefits and lo and behold, none of them applied to a minor working 30 days a week. Yet I still paid dues. I remember that irritated me quite a bit back then. 

AestheticsInMotion > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 08/29/2019 at 11:32

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After working with local electrician and tile unions, I can see why the union apprenticeships are in such high demand. They really do offer an amazing deal

DipodomysDeserti > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 11:33

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Corporate union leaders bei ng bribed by corporate managers to screw over workers. I’m seeing a common denominator here.

ShrimpHappens, née WJalopy > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 11:38

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I’m going to reveal my ignorance, but that doesn’t bother me.

So, you’re a fan of collective bargaining, but not corporate unions. This makes me think of the UAW votes at the VW plant in Chattanooga. They rejected the UAW, as we all know. But, and here’s where my ignorance comes in, they could still organize just by themselves, right? And why wouldn’t they do that? Because of the existing infrastructure of the UAW?

If they did organize solely on their own as the “United Workers of VW of Chatt-town” or whatever, they’d either have to spend a lot of off-clock time together as a group, figuring out what they want, or use dues to pay a staff to do it for them, which is a “corporate” union, right?

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Future next gen S2000 owner 08/29/2019 at 11:54

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People are the problem... specifically people in charge. I still don’t understand how those with some kind of power and influence are always looking for more and looking to benefit themselves at the expense of others.... then again I have neither power, n or influence, so maybe that says something about both me and the people who seek such...

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Party-vi 08/29/2019 at 12:01

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Spanfeller is a twat > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 12:10

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Any entity that abuses their power is a bad entity. 

Spanfeller is a twat > DipodomysDeserti 08/29/2019 at 12:19

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It’s all Friedman’s Obama’s fault!

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > AestheticsInMotion 08/29/2019 at 12:24

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Yeah, they offer an honest career that a person can support a family on.

WiscoProud > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 12:26

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Power corrupts. Unions certainly have a place, particularly with fields that are hazardous or have poor mobility. Ideally, unions should be local, rather than national. Until corporations decide that workers are just as important as shareholders, there will be a need for unions. 

Future next gen S2000 owner > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/29/2019 at 13:02

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

This kinda sums up all the world’s problems .

MrDakka > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t 08/29/2019 at 13:09

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Power is amazing, like a highly addictive drug. Your very will made manifest, every whim acted upon.

Who dares challenge you, a god ? Who has the temerity to bother you? Those little people? Like ants they are; no need to listen to their pite ous cries for help or attention. You have matters of more import that require your attention.

Kiltedpadre > ImmoralMinority 08/29/2019 at 16:52

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I have had two union jobs and one non-union job in my current career field. I make almost double in my non-union position then I did in either union job and my insurance is significantly better/cheaper.

At one they gave up negotiating for a shift differential for those of us working second or third shift. The concession they received was a  free t-shirt for the field staff. Not only did I not get a shift differential; I never even got the t-shirt.

Mercedes Streeter > ImmoralMinority 08/30/2019 at 11:05

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You know what, I’ll back you up on this. I love Unions in concept, hate many of them in practice.

Recently in Indiana an Engineer union decided to strike their employer. Okay, no problem. During the strike, the business hired a trucking company to move steel off the property, something completely unrelated to the jobs of the engineers. The trucking company accidentally crossed the picket to do their job, the owner thought it was only taboo to cross the line if you aren’t a neutral party.

The result has been an unrelenting attack on the trucking company by members of the union. Fake reviews, threats, and slander against a party not even tangentially involved in the dispute. Apologies have not been accepted and as one of the idiots even told me straight up, they aren’t stopping until the trucking company goes out of business.

I asked if they'd do the same to a pizza man, the answer was they'd bury the pizza man if the same had happened.

And I’m supposed to feel sorry for these guys?