POLITICS: Biden, Warren, Sanders, Harris, Booker, Klobuchar, Buttigieg, O’Rourke, Yang... (who else?)

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 08/12/2019 at 14:17 • Filed to: None

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Because donkey + car

That’s nine. Any of the other Ds going to make the stage for the next debate?

Who’s going to end up with it, in the end? Can Biden somehow make few enough mistakes along the way to end up with the nomination?

Of the others, w ho actually has the best chance to unseat Trump? Klobuchar? Or are enough Americans ready to call themselves Democratic Socialists?

What are the odds we’re in for 4 more years of this donkey ass?

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 14:33

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im voting for buttycheek

coz im 12

wang is a close runner up

bidet a distant turd

Spanfeller is a twat > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 14:37

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Warren is my fav along with Harris. Though its worth pointing out that medicare for all is a stupid idea. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 14:47

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I have heard Bidden is predetermined dem candidate, much like hillary was the last go around. If so the dems are screwed. 

fintail > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 14:51

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The shell of a car being what looks like an old Moskvit ch is appropriate given the current regime.

Please don’t be Biden.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/12/2019 at 14:52

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Which really old dude do you prefer?

Biden currently has a 6-9% advantage in polling vs. Trump, whatever that’s worth.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > fintail 08/12/2019 at 14:54

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Not sure if he has the staying power. 

nerd_racing > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/12/2019 at 14:54

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surprisingly relevant meme:

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 14:54

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I’ve always voted dem and even swallowed my pride and voted for Hillary. I think Warren is where it’s at. Maybe pick a far left vice pres. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/12/2019 at 14:56

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Warren’s not far left? 

Textured Soy Protein > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 14:56

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The only viable candidates are Biden, Sanders, Warren, Harris & Buttigieg.

Healthcare is the most important issue to me and while there’s something about Harris that just rubs me the wrong way, her healthcare plan is the closest to what I think is the best solution.

Judged purely on disposition/personality/smartness I like Buttigieg. 

Ash78, voting early and often > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 14:57

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Hickenlooper seems pretty interesting to this Libertarian/Conservative/Centrist. I’m willing to vote D just to get Trump out of there. I’ve only ever voted R or I in my life. Mostly I.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 14:58

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Sanders, Warren, and Harris should be the only three we’re looking at tbh.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 08/12/2019 at 15:01

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How is Buttigieg (mayor) more viable than Klobuchar (senator)?

Just basing that on current polling? 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 08/12/2019 at 15:05

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Hickenlooper won’t make the stage, so he’s out.

I wish there was a strong 3rd party choice. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 08/12/2019 at 15:10

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Based on preference, or who you think will be left standing at the end?

Blue is Sander’ s donor advantage ( has raised $36m from 746,000 donors).

fintail > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 15:17

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I fear his gaffes and his bouts with outoftouchness.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 15:19

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I think the definition of far left has been skewed in the last 20 years with the entire democratic party slowly moving right. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/12/2019 at 15:22

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Seriously? Bernie (who’s not shy about saying he’s a socialist) was way out of the D mainstream in 2016, and now half the field’s positions line up with his.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Spanfeller is a twat 08/12/2019 at 15:25

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What makes you say medicare for all is stupid?

Warren is also my favorite, though I wish she’d drop the college debt relief thing...unlike medical expenses these people willingly took on that debt.

Textured Soy Protein > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 15:25

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Current polling and I’ve yet to see Klobuchar do anything to distinguish herself from the crowd other than have the press drum up stories about her being a mean boss. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 08/12/2019 at 15:31

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I guess I see her as someone that an upper Midwest centrist that voted for Trump might actually vote for. But you’re right, she’ll need her “moment” to get more notice and to stay in the hunt.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 15:55

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I think people seriously underestimate Bernie’s appeal to the younger generation and how little we like Biden. I’m excited about Sanders or Warren, I’ll settle for Harris, but Biden fails to resonate with me.

Textured Soy Protein > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 15:56

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I lived in the upper midwest for a long time. Folks like that don’t vote in democrat primaries. There aren’t really that many upper midwest centrists. The region gets a “middle of the road” kind of reputation, but at this point the cities are generally liberal and the rural areas are basically the same as Alabama.

There are some “centrists” but to me those are more the people who don’t like politics in general, don’t have strong allegiances to either side, and choose based on personality. There aren’t too many of them left. The midwest blue collar union member democrat voters are a dying breed, both literally and figuratively.

Spanfeller is a twat > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 08/12/2019 at 16:04

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Enrique Peña Nieto tried it here. It was a huge failure. Private hospitals that accepted government  insurance were a lot more expensive than public hospitals and had a lot more complains.

The healthcare Industry has a very high barrier of entry and is also a universal need.

So, in the end if you own a hospital, you don’t have a lot of competition, and your clients don’t have many other options. If Americans want to reduce spending per capita in healthcare, they will have to socialize medicine; not just insurance.

MrSnrub > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 16:16

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He’s not wrong. The Democratic Party has been drifting to the right for decades, probably since McGovern lost to Nixon in ‘72. The leftward turn that’s been happening over the last few years, partially thanks to Bernie, is a welcome corrective. Of course whether it continues is dependent on the outcome of the next few elections

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Textured Soy Protein 08/12/2019 at 16:26

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I don't know anyone back home (MN) under 50 that would vote for klobuchar, and outside of the cities few people under that age.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) 08/12/2019 at 16:27

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Bernie’s 15-20% vocal & active minority is no joke, but it’s pretty hard to see it growing very much from there, unless Warren really trips up and all her support falls to him.

The real question is, would enough of the middle embrace Socialism to rid themselves of Trump? I think the Ds might be  trying to move too far too fast (and that’s why the pragmatists are currently backing Biden). 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 08/12/2019 at 16:32

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Good point about them not voting in the primaries, but Trump won by bringing the people you mention out of the woodwork to vote for him. There are enough to move the needle, especially in battleground states. 

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 08/12/2019 at 16:32

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Yeah, everyone willingly took on college debt. Signing their lives away at 18. Because all their teachers and parents told them they had to or they would end up destitute. What 18 year old could refute that? It's a big, scary, overwhelming system. Loans were designed to trap people. Tuition is stupidly expensive. Meanwhile any other first world country worth living in has options for post secondary that don't include a lifetime of debt. So why should we drop relief for college debt?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 16:39

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All I know is that they need to get this shit down to one stage of candidates, the two night thing is brutal.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 08/12/2019 at 16:41

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Ah crap, I thought the next one was one night...

... Sept. 12 and 13 , the Democratic National Committee will require each candidate to have at least 2% support in four polls and contributions from at least 130,000 individual donors, thresholds expected to thin the list of candidates.  

mazda616 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 17:07

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I like Warren, Harris, and Buttigieg. Ideally, I’d like to see one of them win the nomination and pick Buttigieg as their VP. I like him best but he isn’t polling high enough to win the nomination.  

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > mazda616 08/12/2019 at 17:16

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boot edge edge

mazda616 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 17:16

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If he doesn’t go anywhere after this, I’d like for him to run for Senate, at least.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > mazda616 08/12/2019 at 17:18

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I’m sure he’ll turn this into something.

MrSnrub > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 17:26

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Oh boy, here we go. Full disclosure so you can decide whether to dismiss my opinions or not, my politics are on the far left, and not just by Fox News standards. If I had to give myself a label, it would probably be libertarian socialist . But in the short term my main concern is healthcare, followed by income/wealth inequality and climate change.

With all that in mind, Bernie Sanders is still my favorite candidate. He’s not perfect, but I like just about all of his positions and he’s done more to bring the idea of true universal healthcare into mainstream political conversation than anyone else. Main drawback, he’s super old.

Warren is my second favorite. She’s got the most fleshed-out policy, most of which I like, although her insistence that she’s still a capitalist is a little annoying. My main worry with her is how she’d do in a general election. She completely bungled the native ancestry thing, and that doesn’t bode well for future face-offs with Trump.

The rest range from meh to awful. Harris is probably my distant third choice. She’s good on the debate stage, but otherwise I view her with suspicion - her history as California AG, her waffling on healthcare and her laughably convoluted student-debt forgiveness plan all give me pause.

Can’t leave out Biden I guess. He’s a gaffe machine and spectacularly out of touch. In those regards he’s probably worse than Hillary, but the right wing hasn’t been smearing him with sinister conspiracy theories for 20 years and, more importantly, he’s not a woman, so he’s got that going for him. It’s worth pointing out that this is his third run for president, though, and he has a good history of flaming out spectacularly.

Which leads me to this - I don’t buy into the received wisdom about “electability”, which is a self-serving term mainly applied to whoever the corporate media and political elite like the most (also see: Buttigieg, Harris). To actually win a presidential election as a Democrat, you’ve got to motivate the base, and right now the base will be motivated by someone who offers the prospect of a meaningful improvement in their lives - not tweeting heinous shit on an hourly basis but otherwise leaving an untenable status-quo in place will not cut it.

nermal > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 17:28

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My top tickets:

1) Maryanne & Anybody else. She’s the ONLY one of them that can win a debate against Trump. She’s such a nutjob, with so many things that he can go after, that he will simply freeze up and not be able to speak .

2) Bernie & Biden, in either order. I want to see the party that condescendingly panders to younger and non-whiter people put up a ticket of the two oldest, whitest people ever to run .

Otherwise, I think Trump wins in the yuuuugest landslide since Rea gan.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > nermal 08/12/2019 at 17:32

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LOL

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 17:35

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Bernie is an outlier like that guy with the big ears-Ross Perot . When you have pro life dems and dems being bought off by PACS there remains little left of the compassionate democrat ideal.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 08/12/2019 at 17:35

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Big Wang for prez!

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 08/12/2019 at 17:41

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davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MrSnrub 08/12/2019 at 17:41

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That’s the challenge. Getting the base to turn out, but also not alienating the swings.

Textured Soy Protein > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 18:56

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Trump turned out working class white voters with lots of stuff but it wasn’t centrism.

Modern national politics is a base turnout fight. While working class whites who broke for Trump may have been a new group for the GOP, overall their values are more closely aligned with the GOP than Democrats. There’s not much Democrats can do to win those voters back and to make them a centerpiece of a Democrat strategy in a national election is misguided.

In a base turnout fight, the parties have to identify which voters are more aligned with the party but not voting for the party, then find out what’s important to those voters, then tell them you’ll help them out, and drive them (literally and figuratively) to the polls.

In Wisconsin, there are two distinct groups the Democrats need to target: 1) “Fuck the 2-party system man, I’m not voting for the lesser of two evils” hippies; and 2) Minorities who are in the extreme minority in a state that’s so white and feel similar to the hippies that their votes don’t matter.

There’s a lot more people in those 2 groups in Madison and Milwaukee than there are Democrat-receptive working class white centrist voters out in random rural areas.

B/Xmrrmvr > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/12/2019 at 19:12

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They all are . The DNC gave everyone a Mulligan since their plan to have Sanders and Warren attack each other in the 2nd Debate completely backfired on them.

Who’s going to end up with it, in the end?

Tough to say. The DNC wants “anyone but Bernie” and they’re trying to achieve that by making it harder for him to achieve a majority (50%+) because then the superdelegates get to decide. Unlike Trump, who benefitted from more candidates since RNC Primaries had winner take all systems, all Dem primaries are proportional.

If they achieve their goal, the superdelegates will choose either Buttigeg, Harris, or if they’re feeling super-cocky, Biden.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > B/Xmrrmvr 08/12/2019 at 20:44

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https://www.npr.org/2019/03/04/700121429/bernie-sanders-files-to-run-as-a-democrat-and-an-independent

Ah yes the guy so loyal to party, he still registering as an independent. I can’t see why they don’t give him the keys to kingdom

B/Xmrrmvr > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 08/12/2019 at 21:13

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I live in a state where electoral fusion was extremely common up until recently. Plenty of Democratic-Republicans/Republican-Democrats .

I fail to see the issue you're trying to make, especially when you have Dems whose loyalty seems to reside in corporations over people.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 08/12/2019 at 23:24

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Look I get it, lots of people feel pressured into taking on this debt, but at 18 you’re legally and adult. I know I stayed with an in state public college and worked throughout school in order to graduate with minimal debt. Tuition is still outrageous and need to be addressed. I might get on board with some loan forgiveness, but not with how it’s currently being pitched.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MrSnrub 08/13/2019 at 09:16

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And then there’s this guy:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/tom-steyer-democratic-debates-houston/595999/

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 08/13/2019 at 09:17

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How does Steyer affect all of this?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/tom-steyer-democratic-debates-houston/595999/

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/13/2019 at 09:47

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it’s just ridiculous. raise the % requirement in the polls until you have 1 stage. set the rules at 2% as it is with the caveat of there can only be 9 candidates TOTAL for one stage (if that’s the number who the hell knows anymore) and the people with the highest polling numbers over 2% get the 9 slots.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 08/13/2019 at 10:07

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That’s an interesting point to make since the human brain isn’t even fully developed until 25. And at 18 we’re mostly still controlled by our hormones. That makes it kind of difficult to make a rational decision that will affect the rest of your life.

Then there’s the whole for-profit school fiasco. Places that were being pitched as legitimate institutions. ITT Tech and all of the Corinthian Colleges schools, Trump’s “school”, they’re all the same. You give them money, they give you a degree, but employers all laugh at you and offer you a minimum wage entry level position. These are places that were lying about the quality of their education and job placement rates. How can an 18 year old male a rational choice when the system is loaded like that?

Yeah there are class action lawsuits against some of these crooks. But they don’t affect everyone who went there. Mostly just a year or two of graduates get the highest payout and another year or two get a smaller payout. Not enough to cover what they spent and the time they wasted .

Working through college isn’t an option for everyone. I tried. I wanted to. But my college town was small. There were 2000 wyotech students, a D1 state school, and a community college all competing for the same jobs. Tryi ng to find a job there was like trying to find a job anywhere in 2007-2008. Shit was fucked. Winning the lottery might’ve been easier.

I can see the other side of the argument too. Post secondary education worked for a lot of people. I’m not necessarily advocating for a specific system of loan forgiveness here. Just that something needs to be done.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 08/13/2019 at 10:21

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Whether or not you’re brain is fully developed or not after you turn 18 you are legally responsible for all the decis ions you make. It’s harsh, but it’s reality.

I think there should be some debt relief, but not how Warren is proposing it. Here is a summary of her proposal.

Cancel $50,000 in student loan debt for every person with household income under $100,000.

Provide substantial debt cancellation for every person with household income between $100,000 and $250,000.

Not tax as income student loan debt that has been cancelled.

Also make private student loan debt eligible for cancellation.

Streamline the student loan debt forgiveness process using data and income information already available to the federal government.

Point 1: This needs to be a progressive scale where as you earn more you get less relief.

Point 2: At $100k you are not hurting for money and shouldn’t need any debt cancellation.

Points 3-5 are fine.

I would also add that all student loan payments are tax deductible, not just interest but principle as well.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 08/13/2019 at 10:35

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Reality sure. Imposed by old white dudes not based on science. They won’t let you drink yet, but they’ll let you kill yourself in the military or take out student loans that you don’t fully understand. Seems reasonable. What's harsh is that the system is heavily unbalanced in the favor of the 1%. It has the rest of us fighting with each other instead of them.

Point 1, agreed.

Point 2, no. That depends on where you live and your own personal situation. Kids? Medical bills? In many places 100k/year isn't that much. Especially considering inflation has outstripped wage increases for a long time now.

MrSnrub > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/13/2019 at 11:06

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Ugh, n o billionaire presidents. Can we just merge all the rich white guys in this primary into one organism? I can’t keep track of them all