Car shopping time

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
08/08/2019 at 12:09 • Filed to: None

This is my McParland post for the day. Here is the story

Im a guy who is going from a 20 mile commute to a 50 mile commute (round trip) and driving something that eats 200/per tires and drinks at 13 mpg is going to start wearing thin. When I say wearing thin I specifically mean PAYING for these things, not the driving experience, which I have no complaints at all with.

So, looking for something that will pay for itself in 3 years.

Must haves:

4 seats. not stupid back seats that don’t fit humans

5 doors. I carry a lot of gear, a coupe, convertible or sedan don’t really suit my job

Manual transmission. I need this back in my life

Electric

Low maintenance/easy to repair

Don’t want:

Super high miles - 150k is probably alright, but 200+? pass.

A hillman Imp

The budget*:

4000 for gas powered

5500 for electric

*This is the 3 year break even given a 30 mpg average gas car and a 116 mpge average electric with 75% of my miles on the new 3rd car. Gas price $3/gallon. Electric $0.14/kwh

I’d be willing to go to about 6 grand for gas and 8 grand for electric if it was something worth driving.

Obvious candidates are gen 1 leaf (eh), VW egolf (a little pricey), and various japanese and korean hatches.

Location: Utah

Thoughts?

EDIT: thinking gen 1 FIT sport.

I can find them relatively cheap with a manual. How do they hold up?

DISCUSSION (85)

slipperysallylikespenguins > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:13

What kind of person doesn’t want an Imp?

MrSnrub > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:14

Easy

Kinja'd!!!

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:15

This is gonna sound dumb, but seriously look at a Forte5. They are super nice

HammerheadFistpunch > slipperysallylikespenguins
08/08/2019 at 12:16

A person who wants a reliable car.

HammerheadFistpunch > MrSnrub
08/08/2019 at 12:16

I...um...hmmm.

functionoverfashion > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:18

1. Acquire time machine

2. Go back to June and buy my E46 wagon for $4k

—-

O r get a d iesel Jetta wagon from the buybacks, maybe one would be cheap enough?

HammerheadFistpunch > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
08/08/2019 at 12:18

I found 1, in Idaho for 15 grand.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:18

*Dons flame suit*, Camery Hybrid? They can be had for a reasonable price within your budget. Granted you’re driving what is essentially an appliance but you can break that up every once and a while with the Cruiser.

lone_liberal > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:19

Welcome to the Mini world! Yeah, it doesn’t have back doors but how can you say no?

Kinja'd!!!

https://eastidaho.craigslist.org/cto/d/rexburg-2006-mini-cooper/6950147158.html

HammerheadFistpunch > functionoverfashion
08/08/2019 at 12:19

I would love my sportwagen TDI back, but a 5 grand tdi is a TDI I don’t want.

His Stigness > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:19

Can you lease an e-Golf in Utah?

If you can, I’d consider it. I’m sure your electricity costs are practically free there compared to California. 100 miles a day would be more than adequate, but if you have access to charging at work you could run the AC or heater all the damn day. All day son.

But your lease payment would still be $250-300 a month. But I’m sure if you factor in the lack of having to get gas or do any maintenance at all (save for tires) the savings would out weight the lease payment.

Also look into state rebate incentives. I used the California rebate to make the down payment.

functionoverfashion > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:20

Yeah, that’s probably a good point.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:21

> Don’t want:

>A hillman Imp

Kinja'd!!!

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:21

Mazda3, 5 door but I’m not biased. It doesn’t precipitate in Utah so you don’t have to worry about rust.

https://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/cto/d/saint-george-2011-mazda3-hatchback/6940576031.html

bob and john > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:22

at that kinda price...Id say maybe a a really nice mk4 jetta wagon . tdi. pre buyback.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:27

I have just the thing for you, my 1992 Dodge Caravan.

It has all the space you will need, with easily removable/reconfigurable seating. It averages mid 25-27 mpg cruising. Parts are stupid cheap ( Raybestos brake pads cost me $.97 ), as are tires ( $267 for 4 brand new tires installed ). 73k miles.

I’ll sell it for $1k the way it sits, otherwise it’s $3k once painted, either way, still well under budget.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:29

Maybe not a Hillman Imp, but what about a Sunbeam Imp?

HammerheadFistpunch > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts.
08/08/2019 at 12:29

Not hatch, not manual, not electric. Thought about a prius or something, but a sedan I do not want.

HammerheadFistpunch > lone_liberal
08/08/2019 at 12:29

must be reliable. sorry

HammerheadFistpunch > His Stigness
08/08/2019 at 12:30

I found some for sale here in the 8-10k range. Seriously considering it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
08/08/2019 at 12:30

A Singer Chamois is both technically an Imp and technically not an Imp.

It does not say “Imp” on it.

HammerheadFistpunch > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
08/08/2019 at 12:31

I wouldn’t mind a 3 5 door, but if you don’t think it would rust in SALT lake city, you would be mistaken.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
08/08/2019 at 12:31

Either way, I’m pretty sure the answer he’s looking for is Imp.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:32

oh I missed the budget. lol

HammerheadFistpunch > bob and john
08/08/2019 at 12:32

Their values are still pretty high and a nice PD model is pretty rare

HammerheadFistpunch > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
08/08/2019 at 12:32

I forget, is manual?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:33

I’d suggest a CR-Z manual if you could find one...but wouldn’t be much space for stuff.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
08/08/2019 at 12:33

This. An older Elantra GT wouldn’t be bad either, as it is the same car underneath, really.

HammerheadFistpunch > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars
08/08/2019 at 12:34

I’d like a CR-Z but they are way to small for my needs

RallyWrench > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:35

First generation Scion Xb’s are in that price range, I’ve had my eye on them. Manuals are a little hard to find, but it checks a lot of boxes. And it is a box that is also a Toyota.

MrSnrub > MrSnrub
08/08/2019 at 12:36

But in seriousness, a Matrix or Vibe probably. Some more interesting options come to mind, like the Elantra Touring, but would be hard to find especially with a stick.

HammerheadFistpunch > RallyWrench
08/08/2019 at 12:37

I’d be worried about power and mileage where I am. Long distance travels on 80 mph freeways at 5000+ feet.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:37

It could be........

There’s a 3.0 5-speed duster sitting at the local yard....

lone_liberal > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:39

But just think of all of the extra time off you’ll get waiting by the side of the road for the tow truck!

razorbeamteam > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:39

You want/need a Volvo 240 wagon

- Manual

- Carry lots of stuff

- 28ish MPG

- Fix with paperclip and tape

- won’t die if crashed

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:39

It’s a dry rust, it is not as bad as wet rust.

His Stigness > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:39

Holy shit balls. How many miles on them?

Also check the generation. The first gen only had 85 miles of range. And you also want to make sure it has the CCS charger (DC fast charging).

You want the second gen because in the winter and using the heater will cut your range around 30%.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:41

Does this has to be a cash purchase, or could this be a budget for a payment? As someone in my mid 30's with lots of other commitments and things I want to do with my time, the idea of daily driving a $5-8K car and maintaining it as a complete and 100% turnkey reliable big- mile commuter seems like a way I wouldn’t want to spend my free time and money.

I could see a lot more options for say a budget of $5-8K of payments over 3 years on the purchase of a much newer used car that will still have plenty of resale value down the road and not yet be at the needy end of it’s lifespan in terms of maintenance and upkeep. That might even put you into the range of leasing a smaller new hatchback and having nothing but fuel costs, occasional filters/fluid changes and maybe a set of tires f or total upkeep costs over the term of your ownership.

412GTI > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:43

I was going to say a CT200h would be a nice contender, however they’re not that cheap without 150k+ miles.

For the budget something like a Scion xA or xB might work as well as the standard Fit, Matrix/Vibe suggestions.

vicali > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:44

I’ve played this game, tried to make a cheap commuter work on paper.

Ended up insurance + initial price + parking space did not make it work. Even included getting a bike or adopting one of my Dads CT90s.. In the end it makes more s ense driving the Taco, I just don’t have the distance to leverage good mileage. .

My choices were 3door echo, fit, or celica, protege, acura 1.6.. $3-4k, 5sd , 4 seats..

HammerheadFistpunch > vicali
08/08/2019 at 12:46

Thats kind where Im at. Even only putting 3000 of my miles on the cruiser out of the 13000 annually I drive puts my at a poor breakeven for 3 years. The other advantages are keeping miles off the cruiser and getting a manual transmission.

HammerheadFistpunch > 412GTI
08/08/2019 at 12:47

I would rock a ct200h...but you are right, they haven’t depreciated like they need to.

HammerheadFistpunch > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
08/08/2019 at 12:48

I just have a hard time with the concept of leasing. Maybe I need to reconsider it.

HammerheadFistpunch > His Stigness
08/08/2019 at 12:49

I don’t mind the range issue since my daily commute will be well under and on really cold and snowy days I’ll just drive the cruiser.

vicali > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:50

Wish I had stashed my Impreza instead of selling it.. Ej22 did alright mileage wise, was 4 door, auto, and I had swapped struts and had it decently set up.

Should have pulled a dino;

Kinja'd!!!

HammerheadFistpunch > razorbeamteam
08/08/2019 at 12:53

Finding a decent 240 manual is proving difficult

Sammyno55 > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:54

I’d say Volt, although it doesn’t really hit on all electric or manual transmission. The 1st Gen ones had 4 adult sizes seats and a hatch. $/mi is probably pretty cheap if you charge it every night, if that’s high on your list. I looked at one last week for $8K that had 125K miles.

RallyWrench > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 12:56

Captain Sea-Level here has not has his coffee yet and forgot to factor in altitude... Ok, let’s go another direction: W210 E320 wagon. No manual, but cheap, tough, spacious, decent power. Not the most efficient machine out there compared to your other options, but should double the Landcruiser on the highway. This is another car on my dadcruiser list. The hard part is finding one with less than 150k miles because these things eat road.

I’m struggling to think of sufficiently powerful small, manual 5-doors that can haul your unique load of stuff, other than the Mk6 GTI. They’re a riot, but the upkeep sucks in some cases.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:06

Manual, great mileage, reliable (so far), hatch. May I introduce you to my tdi (PD) Beetle? I’ve even driven it in Utah! (I’ll have to find the pic)

Kinja'd!!!

Not 5 doors and small back seats, though.

HammerheadFistpunch > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
08/08/2019 at 13:07

nope. nope nope nope.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:15

You need some German in your Toyota life hahaha

Boxer_4 > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:20

Blitz supercharger...?

HammerheadFistpunch > SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
08/08/2019 at 13:20

I’ve done my time in Deutschland . My wife has owned nothing but VW until her current lexus. I hated working on them.

VW Max > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:21

MK6 Sportwagen TDI?

Just saw budget part...MK4 and B5 TDIs seem common, cheap, and efficient.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:23

I don’t know if you’d consider it “worth driving” but I’m seeing 1st Gen Volts in the $8-10k range, at least in my area . It meets your requirements of seating 4 and having a rear hatch. The first gen cars get 35-38 miles all electric (so 2/3 of your commute) and then get around 42 mpg on the gas engine. If you do the math ,your 50 mile commute is 16 kW * $ 0.14/kWh (first 35 miles) + 15 mi / 42 mi/gal * $3/gal = $2.24 (electricity) + $1.07 (gas) = $3.31/50 miles. If you’re gas on the way home it’s another 50/42*$ 3 = $3.57 in gas, so $6.88 round trip, but if you can recharge the car at work you’re $6.62 round trip (or less if you can use their electricity for free!)

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:24

Old Focus/ SVT? Mk4 Golf/Jetta wagon? A Saturn Astra or Suzuki SX4 if you can find either?

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:32

https://saltlakecity.craigslist.org/cto/d/bluff-2009-honda-fit-5-speed/6936389289.html

Another idea? For such a large population, your craigslist is kinda lame.

Kinja'd!!!

HammerheadFistpunch > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
08/08/2019 at 13:33

Craigslist never really took hold here because we have had a better classifieds here for a long time (ksl.com)

His Stigness > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:37

Then I say get it. I don’t think you’ll regret it at all.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:37

Oh got it, FB market place is a thing too, I am not into it but lots of people are going there.

https://cars.ksl.com/listing/5775461?ad_cid=8

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:38

You budget may be close to the range of leasing something like an Impreza hatchback (with a manual), or a civic hatchack or similar. Fold the seats down to haul your gear and put them up when you’re taking the kids places. While you’re not “buying” it, you are buying the use of the car for 2/3 years and X number of miles. That could be buying the use of something that efficiently does the bulk of your “A to B” driving that you have to do anyway, does it with very minimal upkeep and running costs, and preserves the use and lifespan of the vehicles you do care about for doing the things you actually want to do with them.

I used to be in the never lease crowd, but I eventually came to realize there are some situations where it can be a good option. It may never be the objectively cheapest option, there can be value in having a new appliance that does what you need and that won’t need more the most minimal amount of care and feeding for the time you’ll have it.

cmill189 - sans Volvo > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:40

They're also expensive now. I sold mine in May for 3200 and it was a solid car but nothing spectacular.

cmill189 - sans Volvo > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
08/08/2019 at 13:43

Lol...doesn't precipitate.

SPAMBot - Horse Doctor > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:47

It’s all I know for the most part. Normal maintenance is really easy but repair items can be a bitch

fhrblig > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 13:50

Chevy Sonic? Or maybe a Soul?

Tripper > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 14:05

Fit or outback

smobgirl > fhrblig
08/08/2019 at 14:20

I haven’t checked prices or availability, but the Soul EVs are cute :)

smobgirl > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 14:21

Matrix would be my first thought after the Fiat 500e got eliminated so quickly and on so many levels.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 14:51

If you care more about having a manual, fun and ‘driving a slow car fast’, get a Honda Fit. I have one and I like it. Only paid CAD$4000 plus tax for mine and only had to replace a swaybar end link for $25 so far over ~14,000km of owner ship so far.

If you want something really durable, reliable and gets great fuel economy, get a 2004+ Prius.

The Leaf can work as well if that’s a 50 mile round trip, not 50 miles each way. But with the Leaf, particularly the early ones (which is all you’ll get for your budget), battery degradation is what you have watch for since they don’t have proper cooling. But also note that a good used battery can be had for $2000-$3000... still pricey, but less than half the cost of getting it from Nissan.

Consider as well that on a regular 120V outlet, it will take ~20 hours to recharge a Leaf.

So i f you’re doing 50 miles/day, you’ll want to have a 220V/50amp J1772 level 2 charger installed where ever you park your car every night.

The early Leafs with the slower 3.6KW charger will take 8 hours go from drained to fully recharged on a level 2 plug. Later ones with the 6.6kw charger take about 4 hours to recharge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf#Recharging

https://www.energysage.com/electric-vehicles/charging-your-ev/charging-nissan-leaf/

So you need to factor this in to your car buying decision.

Also given how the battery pack does not have good thermal management, you won’t want to rely on high speed Chademo charging on a regular basis if you care about having the battery pack last.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 15:01

Related to my last comment... here is an early Nissan Leaf for $4500 with only 40,000 miles

Here is a 2007 Prius for $5000 with 113,000 miles

Did find a Honda Fit on autotrader, but I saw someone else found one for you on craigslist.

zipfuel > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly
08/08/2019 at 15:08

How tall are you? I’m 6' and my driving instructor had a F it back in the day ( ~2007) it was ergonomically poor . T he way I had to s it at around the steering column torqued my right knee and hurt after only 30 minutes of lesson.

Now maybe a wheel with telescope would solve this but his only tilted.

That guy also tended to grab the steering wheel and yell at me for pushing the indicator stalk too hard, all in not a fantastic experience...

vicali > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
08/08/2019 at 15:28

FB marketplace is the new CL..

Kinja'd!!!

shop-teacher > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 15:31

I can't believe nobody has yet suggested a Mazda 3 hatch.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > zipfuel
08/08/2019 at 15:35

I’m a normal/average sized 5'8" and it’s fine for me. And yeah, the steering column can be raised or lowered... at least on the Sport models.

GSKING19 > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 16:24

How about a T oyota matrix or Pontiac Vibe? Or a RAV4? Manual 3 series popped into my head but I didn't think it would qualify.

someassemblyrequired > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 16:49

CT200's are probably out of budget, but there’s lots around here with low miles for cheap.

Any MiEV’s around? Those are dirt cheap, and I know a guy with one and he really likes it. Range is a little bit less than a leaf, but still about 60 miles.

fhrblig > smobgirl
08/08/2019 at 17:35

I looked around after posting this, and I didn’t realize the Sonic was holding its value so much. I did see a Soul for $5k but it was an auto. I doubt the Soul EV is falling that much, though.

I bet some Fiat 500e's are falling into that range, but that meets almost none of his criteria.

smobgirl > fhrblig
08/08/2019 at 17:48

BUT THEYRE SO CUUUUUUTE.

The Snowman > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 17:55

Find the Nicest Grand marquis in utah. 28 Hwy with grandma gears. no hatch but a trunk that will hold more than the hatch on most cars. super comfy to commute in. No manual :( but other than that I love commuting in mine plus a 50K mile car is worth less than 5 grand.

nermal > HammerheadFistpunch
08/08/2019 at 18:13

Go lease a new manual Accord Sport. They’re practically giving them away since everybody is buying CRVs now. It’s sporty, reliable, and cheap to run.

HammerheadFistpunch > The Snowman
08/08/2019 at 18:22

I’ve already got a slow automatic boat

Future Heap Owner > HammerheadFistpunch
08/09/2019 at 02:16

Portland’s only, what, a 12 hour drive back, right? Out here you can find plenty old cheap manual stuff because cars never die.

Like, take this:

Kinja'd!!!

Even though it’s an old Mazda, it’s fiiiiiine (right)? Though the mileage on that is not so believable with the price.

Or hey, how about this Scion xB? Not nearly as nice to look at as the first gen, but got t hat good ol’ Toyota reliability.

Kinja'd!!!

Future Heap Owner > HammerheadFistpunch
08/09/2019 at 02:18

Portland’s only, what, a 12 hour drive back, right? Out here you can find plenty old cheap manual stuff because cars never die.

Like, take this:

Kinja'd!!!

Even though it’s an old Mazda, it’s fiiiiiine (right)? Though the mileage on that is not so believable with the price.

Or hey, how about this Scion xB? Not nearly as nice to look at as the first gen, but got that good ol’ Toyota reliability.

Kinja'd!!!

Rufant > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
08/13/2019 at 18:11

This is good advice, thanks. I’m about to be in a similar boat to HHFP and so I just did the figures on a 3 year lease of Fiesta ST as an example here in Oz. I can lease that for $185/week inclusive of all running costs including fuel!

I was looking at 13 year old Forester Turbo’s before, which would be fun but all sorts of possible running cost dramas.

Anyway, thanks again

Rufant > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
08/13/2019 at 18:37

I just ran the figures on the Forester, that’s only $125/week. Which is $19,500 over 3 years. It is still cheaper to buy as I don’t have to borrow the money (about $15k in expenses over the same time period, and you’ve got a car at the end of it), but an exercise worth doing.

Of course, one blown engine and it’s all out the window!

Food for thought.