Another Mass Shooting, Multiple Dead; Walmart in El Paso

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 08/03/2019 at 16:24 • Filed to: None

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This is getting very, very old.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 16:31

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*sigh*... i managed to correct my shitty comment on the last one

anyhoo... dont mind me ill quietly kick back and sip me beer and watch nothing change

tots n pears

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 16:31

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NKato > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 16:32

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American politicians are playing games while people die of mental health problems, either directly or indirectly. I'm already tired of it, and given that no one has enough political capital to fix anything due to partisanship - "reee, he's a Democrat, block all legislation from him!" And so forth, and people don't realize we're about to become a literal third world country.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > NKato 08/03/2019 at 16:36

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And blocking any study of the underlying causes of these events. To say that guns are the cause is overly simplistic.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 16:41

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It is mental health AND easy access to guns. 

Cé hé sin > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 16:46

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Nonetheless, it’s hard to carry out a mass shooting without them.

wafflesnfalafel > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 16:46

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It’s kind of the new American “war” - always have to be at least somewhat on guard for violently unstable folks with access to weapons . Kind of a weird, twisted internal civil war. But it is what we have chosen as a nation - can’t dispute that...

If everybody would just always shop at Amazon then nobody would have to go to malls and this would never happen - problem solved!

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > NKato 08/03/2019 at 16:48

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Become? Have you seen the inequality in this country ? We’ve been a banana republic with the fragile facade of a developed nation since the 1970s.

jimz > NKato 08/03/2019 at 16:49

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I’m sure they’ll bump this one soon:

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1835173950

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 08/03/2019 at 16:50

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I’ve said a sh***y thing or two in this space over the years and apologized. If people want t o decline the apology and decide they don’t like me, well, that’s their issue.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 08/03/2019 at 16:52

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Totally agree, but the former doesn’t have an amendment to the Constitution of the United States entangling it. You’d think it would be the easier thing to take on...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Cé hé sin 08/03/2019 at 16:52

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Well said.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > wafflesnfalafel 08/03/2019 at 16:56

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I was discussing this very thing with my 17-YO daughter a couple nights ago. She wants to go to a big outdoor concert. I counseled her to make sure she and her mates all keep their heads on a swivel so that when the shooting starts, they know where the exits are or where the nearest ditch is. She was like, “Great attitude, Dad.” I was like, “That’s where we’re at.”

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 17:04

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Well, she is right and you are wrong. Yes, these are sensational scary things, but she’s more likely to die from the trip to the concert than she is at that concert. If our fear was  aligned with actual risks, you probably wouldn’t let her leave the house for fear of a car accident.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 17:05

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Was having this exact discussion with Mrs. Ttyymmnn this morning on our way home from Costco. How utterly disgusting and tragic that you can’t go to the store or a restaurant without your first task being to locate the emergency exits or a place in which to barricade yourself. Might as well be living in Kabul. 

wafflesnfalafel > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 17:08

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Super tough especially with a 17 yo kid - you can’t “tell” them to do it and even trying lead by example tends to make folks look paranoid . Honestly, I don’t dwell on it - I liken the whole situation to simple driving. Everyday I spend at least a couple hours on the road where loonballs are trying to kill me with their cars and trucks so I just need to pay attention and take steps to avoid getting smushed.

Berang > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 17:09

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There is no amendment saying freely distribute firearms to every nutcake. This is one of those red herrings the NRA invented to hoodwink people who can’t read English. The qualifications for the right to bear arms are for the security of the state, through a well regulated militia. It’s why for literally hundreds of years the U.S. has let states and towns set their own gun laws and regulations.

I can just imagine some old timey gangster : “you can’t make me turn over my tommy guns, my sawed off shotguns, and grenades! T hat’s unconstitutional!”

Berang > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 17:10

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It’s sad, in a civilized society, one looks at the calendar every few weeks and thinks “we’re overdue for another massacre”.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 08/03/2019 at 17:11

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I think that for you to state that I am wrong is putting a fairly fine point on your reply.

Your reminder of the statistics is reassuring. At the same time, why do we look left and right before we enter the intersection when the light turns green? There is nothing wrong about exercising an abundance of caution.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 08/03/2019 at 17:12

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I agree, except for the Kabul bit... Kind of hyperbolic...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > wafflesnfalafel 08/03/2019 at 17:13

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There’s nothing wrong with exercising and abundance of caution.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Berang 08/03/2019 at 17:15

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Yeah. I didn’t really intend to make this thread a debate about that. I just wish we’d put more effort into why more and more people are taking their readily available guns and going out and killing a bunch of people they don’t even know and using those guns. I am a firearms enthusiast myself. You mention the NRA: I hope the organization shrivels up and dies, and recent news would suggest that my wish might come to pass.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Berang 08/03/2019 at 17:17

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No doubt.

sony1492 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 17:21

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Sobering statistics of gun violence.

“ Mass Shooting Tracker project defines a mass shooting as: “an incident where four or more people are shot in a single shooting spree. This may include the gunman himself, or police shootings of civilians around the gunman.” [7]

As of July 31, 2019, 248 mass shootings have occurred in 2019 that fit the inclusion criteria of this article, resulting in 979 people being shot. Of those people, 246 have died.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > sony1492 08/03/2019 at 17:26

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*shakes head*

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 17:30

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KTSM

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 08/03/2019 at 17:43

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Lovely; just the sort of glory this guy seeks. And he wears his hearing protection... And a Kalashnikov...

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 17:49

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No doubt purchased legally. 

Berang > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 17:56

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They’ve been so busy scamming themselves, that it may just happen. But no, somebody will pick up the pieces, too many delusional suckers to bilk to let this one fail.

I think the problem is that gun culture in the U.S. is completely nuts, and again, the NRA has taken a large part in stoking the flames of insanity. I don’t want to talk about the good old days, which I was not a part of, but my uncle, through my grandfather, had quite a large gun collection. And it seems that by comparison, gun owners today have less respect for their weapons, and less respect for others. The gun industry spends a lot of money stoking paranoia, from every possible angle, to make money - and the result is gun culture in the U.S. is very, very sick. There’s a very gross “you’re the alpha male, you first, your life matters more than anybody else’s, everybody is out to get you!!!” mentality that attracts a lot of people who feel they really are more important than everybody else, that society is out to get them, and they deserve revenge.

These mass shootings aren’t acts of passionate rage, some hot head shooting the boss who fired them, or the man that took his wife, or some guy who owes him money. They’re people attacking strangers, who’ve done nothing to them whatsoever, except, to be part of the society these insecure peices of shit think is holding them back. 

sony1492 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 18:12

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I think people are fed up with,”the system”, they spend most of t heir waking adult life working a job they dont care about in order to cover an exorbent rent followed by crippling debt through health complications, transportation needs, student loans etc. The county on a macro scale is depressing, the highest rate of incarceration, long sentances that work to punish not rehabilitate, police brutality, politics are practically a sitcom, we wane as a world power, homelessness, our infrastructure is crumbling, income inequality is immense, the american dream we are taught to pine towards is not attainable.

We scapegoat or fears and blame the Immigrants , trade deficit, X president, X county, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, X religion.

Then in their spare t ime they compare themselves to people on the internet who show an impossible life, leading to ideas that life should be better then it ever realistically will be.

Co mpounded by poor mental health treatment and awareness, roughly 17 million in 2017 alone were depressed. And maybe when you get this many people with no hope and a society that has no direction a few hundred lash out in acts of massacre. Everyone wants to point a finger at who got us here and these people snap choosing the citizens around them.

(I’m not saying everything’s this bad but I believe it’s the hole many people start going down without realizing the quality of life we take for granted)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 08/03/2019 at 18:16

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Most likely; usually the case.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Berang 08/03/2019 at 18:18

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Tell me how you really feel. I think it’s a penis envy deal in a lot of cases. But there are firearms enthusiasts out there who just have fun with their guns, hunt, and whatever. I’m one of those, though my arsenal is very small.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > sony1492 08/03/2019 at 18:21

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I think you put this rather eloquently. And thoroughly. Well said. It’s depressing and appalling.

arl > sony1492 08/03/2019 at 18:41

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Sad, but accurate take on the state of things. Sigh. 

gettingoldercarguy > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 19:20

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Guns win again

gettingoldercarguy > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 08/03/2019 at 19:28

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He probably makes sure she’s buckled up and safe in a car as well. Being cautious about one situation does not forsake caution on another.

Nobody here would be dumb enough to advocate their children to stay in a pool during a thunderstorm even if the odds are low and they’re more likely to die riding a bike.

gettingoldercarguy > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 19:30

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https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/U-S-Regions-with-Stricter-Gun-Laws-Have-Lower-Rates-of-Pediatrics-Injuries-Due-to-Firearms.aspx

pip bip - choose Corrour > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 19:49

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why oh why oh why

DipodomysDeserti > Berang 08/03/2019 at 19:57

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Interestingly, the current laws regulating sawed off shotguns/grenades/machine guns were created in response to gangsters during P rohibition (The National Firearms Act of 1934 ). You can still own these things, but you have to register yourself and the weapons with the BATFE and pay a $200 tax on each weapon. 

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 20:00

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“this would never happen in Texas because everybody has guns there”

While I’m not saying we should put more restrictions on guns, it’s just sad that people think everybody having one would stop shootings. I’m definitely an advocate for people owning guns as they please btw. But people who are clearly nutjobs should be kept away from anything dangerous. 

DipodomysDeserti > sony1492 08/03/2019 at 20:04

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Nah. Most of these assholes are young, middle class white men. “The System” is literally designed for them to succeed.

These guys do this because they’re fucked up and should have been dealt with before they could shoot. Unfortunately you can’t do that in a modern society.

No one “snaps” and shoots a bunch of strangers. These people are defective humans who should be treated accordingly.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 08/03/2019 at 20:23

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AND a President stirring hate...

Berang > DipodomysDeserti 08/03/2019 at 20:25

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That was the joke.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > gettingoldercarguy 08/03/2019 at 20:30

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That totally makes sense. But I don’t think there’s much talking of sense in this matter. And I think all the scientists who would reach such a conclusion have been fired.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > gettingoldercarguy 08/03/2019 at 20:35

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That’s an interesting way to put it and I do not disagree.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/03/2019 at 20:35

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Because Murica.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/03/2019 at 20:40

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MUH RIGHTS

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 08/03/2019 at 20:41

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I think you and I are in line here. But problematic: define nutjob and tell me precisely where to draw the line and who draws it.

And everyone in Texas (supposedly) having guns, anybody in that Walmart who had one would have been carrying something relatively compact and no match for a Kalashnikov.

pip bip - choose Corrour > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 08/03/2019 at 20:43

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what about the rights of the innocent shoppers?

pip bip - choose Corrour > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 20:44

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gettingoldercarguy > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 20:49

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I don't think they were fired.  I do think a lot of people don't like the data.

gettingoldercarguy > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 20:51

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https://oppositelock.kinja.com/1836942158

sony1492 > DipodomysDeserti 08/03/2019 at 20:55

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So your saying this issue is independent from our current societal position and this sudden uptick was unavoidable, these people were always going to try and murder?

fintail > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 08/03/2019 at 21:10

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When I drive around here, I sometimes joke “I wish I lived in a first world country, but the USA is cool too”.

With the insane healthcare system and the socio-economic chasm/withering economic mobility, the old “republic” is showing its flaws.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 21:24

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I agree, that is definitely the complicated part! I’d think at least people with documented mental conditions which would preclude them from thinking clearly enough to handle the responsibility might be a start. I'd want to go as far as taking into account wild social media posting as well but that's too contentious to deal with. 

atfsgeoff > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 21:31

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This particular El Paso Wal-Mart is posted with 30-06 signs. Another victim-disarmament zone.

DipodomysDeserti > sony1492 08/03/2019 at 21:35

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I believe society has always contained people who will wantonly harm others. The more people you have, the more likely it is to happen. P eople like this are able to more easily connect to each other nowadays, thus increasing the likelihood they’ll act on their impulses. Easier access to efficient weapons adds to this. Increased reporting raises our awareness of such incidents.

Life in America is much easier today than it was in the past. Our ancestors literally worked their hands to the bone in factories  so they could live in rat infested tenements.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 21:42

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Something that really bothers me about this issue in the states, especially as an outsider looking in, is that it is a problem that could be easily remedied if ‘X’ were to happen. The entrenched political, cultural and legal components of this issue are literally centuries old, and even if there was a chance the second amendment were to be changed that is likely not the only hurdle to reducing gun violence in the U.S.

I’m not arguing that there is no hope, or no solution. I believe there can be, and that there is hope. My point is that I think it’s unacceptable to either dismiss the issue as being hopeless, or as being a result of the U.S. and Americans willfully refusing to get their  shit together, especially for those of us (including myself) without a thorough understanding of the issue. 

DipodomysDeserti > Berang 08/03/2019 at 21:44

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Ahh, it’s not every day you come across 1930’s firearm legislation humor. I actually own NFA weapons and I missed it.

f86sabre > ttyymmnn 08/03/2019 at 22:17

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Terrorist. 

ttyymmnn > f86sabre 08/03/2019 at 22:21

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Yup. 

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 22:26

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Anyone else find it odd that we have LEs all over the country killing black guys for selling cigarettes, reaching for cellphones, pulling out wallets, dancing in the street, yet a white kid kills twenty people and is taken alive?

Just me?

DipodomysDeserti > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 08/03/2019 at 22:27

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This would never happen in Texas...

DipodomysDeserti > atfsgeoff 08/03/2019 at 22:28

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No one who carries sees those signs.

-I’ve had a CCW for a decade

If I’m with my kids and someone opens up with a rifle near me, I’m getting us the fuck out of there. No way am I engaging someone who has the drop on me with a superior weapon. I’d only engage as a last resort. If I’m by myself it might be different (I have lots of life insurance).

DipodomysDeserti > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/03/2019 at 22:33

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I’m a STEM teacher

Git sum

atfsgeoff > DipodomysDeserti 08/03/2019 at 22:59

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I’ve been carrying for 13 years and I see those signs all the time. I try to obey them as best I can by not patronizing businesses that post them.

More importantly, it is a serious crime in Texas for a concealed carrier to walk into an establishment that has those signs posted. Seeing as concealed carriers are among the most law abiding subset of people in the country, they are pretty careful to NOT break the law when possible.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 08/03/2019 at 23:14

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I was in London last year (as an American tourist) and was talking to a couple of brits for a while since we were in a long queue. Yes very British experience. But anyways, they asked me why everyone in America wants to have guns. They were perplexed and couldn't understand why anyone would want them. I wasn't quite sure how to answer this question. I do support gun ownership but I couldn't quite make an argument why. It made me really think about it and just wonder a bit. From the outside, we Americans probably look certifiably insane. 

Berang > DipodomysDeserti 08/03/2019 at 23:15

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haha it’s ok, it was just a funny mental image. Like a gangster being “hey 2nd amendment, 2nd amendment! you can’t do this to me!”

Berang > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/03/2019 at 23:20

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Well, I’m not being glib. If you look at the advertising for firearms, there’s huge difference between what was normal a few decades ago, and what we see now. 1950's: “buy our rifle, shoot some vermin” Now: “Always a victor, never a victim.” (literally saw this tagline in a rifle ad a few months ago).

And then if you’ve seen any of the NRA’s advertisements, they literally want people to think terrorists are going to beat down their door and shoot their whole family. It’s insane. It is completely, and indefensibly insane.

I think the problem is that as the U.S. shifted from an agricultural society to a cosmopolitan society over the past half century, you can get a lot of people buying rifles by enticing them with shooting rabbits. You have to make them feel like they’re under constant threat, because why else buy a gun if you live in the suburbs. So it’s no surprise to me that a bunch of insecure, paranoid whackos, buy into this gibberish.

And I’ve met people for whom a shotgun for home defense is deemed some pansy-ass shit. No, you need a high powered rifle that’ll shoot through every wall in your house and into your neighbors! Because that’s macho!

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 08/03/2019 at 23:36

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I think this highlights the issue of the ‘hobby’ aspect of gun ownership. While it may be for any number of practical reasons, it is also likely a hobby (I know this isn’t universal, but I would argue common especially amongst firearm advocates). The idea of owning dangerous weapons explicitly designed to harm our fellow man is a challenging idea to accept, especially given the present-day context of civilian firearm ownership. And that’s not to say that it shouldn’t be allowed because it is merely a hobby, only that I understand that it is hard to admit it is a hobby, especially when facing sharp (albeit sometimes justified)  criticism

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > gettingoldercarguy 08/04/2019 at 00:24

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I was being facetious.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 08/04/2019 at 00:29

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Have a federal judge review every application? Who appoi nted the judge? Then people would-be suing when they got declined. I'm not trying to be a Second Amendment Patriot, just pointing out how problematic the thing is.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > atfsgeoff 08/04/2019 at 00:32

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Handgun a match for a Kalashnikov? Perhaps. Ironic that the penal section is 30.06 and not 5.56 or 7.62.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DipodomysDeserti 08/04/2019 at 00:33

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Unless maybe you were close by. But for sure. What state?

gettingoldercarguy > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 00:33

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My bad, I can't always tell over the internets.  Plus I'm old.  And I'm dumb.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 08/04/2019 at 00:36

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Back to my earlier point: why aren't we pouring resources into underlying causes rather than just trying to ban guns?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DipodomysDeserti 08/04/2019 at 00:41

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I think your reply is nitroglycerin and I hope it doesn’t spawn a s**tstorm. I think black death by cop is a very real thing, but it’s too early to speculate about this situation, and relating the two things is problematic.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Berang 08/04/2019 at 00:44

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Yes, I hear you and I don't disagree.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > gettingoldercarguy 08/04/2019 at 00:47

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I doubt you're much older not much dumber than I am. That was my down-low dig at the POTUS. He was the guy spouting off about how he's have saved the day at the school shooting if he'd been there with his handgun. Or whatever unhelpful gruel he was serving up.

atfsgeoff > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 00:50

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 Handgun a match for a Kalashnikov? Perhaps.

In a wally world where there is plenty of concealment, lots of running/screaming people, and endcaps to steady a pistol to perfectly aim a shot on an unsuspecting rifleman, I’d say definitely.

gettingoldercarguy > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 00:50

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Glad his bonespurs are better.  

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > atfsgeoff 08/04/2019 at 00:56

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Definitely perhaps. But not if the 30.06 signs are obeyed, though I hope you'd wind up charged if you'd stopped a rampage.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > gettingoldercarguy 08/04/2019 at 00:57

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#donot likethatguy

gettingoldercarguy > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 01:01

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I’m pretty pissed that Will Hurd is leaving congress.  I really enjoyed him.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 01:28

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(Sorry in advance for the essay)

I think that as much as underlying causes influence and produce gun violence (the majority of which is suicide which is often absent from gun violence statistics), access to firearms is a distinct component of the issue of gun violence, and focusing on the ‘root causes’ does not dismiss the need for reform.

I also think that there is often a false dichotomy between legislating access to firearms and focusing on root causes, when reasonably they should both be goals. Especially when programs like (from my very limited understanding) accessible mental health care, community outreach and firearms background checks exist, but do not have the support and reflexiveness to actually work as intended.

And that is ignoring the impact that ‘ loose gun control’ has on the states’ neighbours . My understanding is most of Mexico’s firearms come from the United States (improving border screening would help, but why not deal with the root cause of the access to the guns too?)

jimz > DipodomysDeserti 08/04/2019 at 07:01

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there’s no real way to deal with these people before they do something like this, thanks to St. Ronnie and a bunch of Republican state governors eviscerating mental health care in the ‘80s and ‘90s.  Now we just tell parents “hey, it’s your problem until he/she is 18.  After that we’ll happily throw him/her in prison.  Hope not too many other people get hurt first.”

jimz > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 07:04

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because that’s “socialism.”  St. Ronnie gutted funding for mental health care in 1981, and a bunch of Republican state governors followed suit e.g. John Engler in Michigan.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > gettingoldercarguy 08/04/2019 at 08:57

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Are you being facetious? I’d really never heard of the guy before the retirement announcement.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 08:59

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It just needs to have the same weight as getting a drivers license at least. While the rules are too lax for that, at least there is some basis of requirements in order to operate that deadly weapon. I’d think having it be more akin to getting a drivers license in Germany is more appropriate. Operating any sort of deadly weapon needs to be a privilege and not a right . C ars and guns are essentially the same thing from that perspective. They sure do kill more people than guns anyways. Sure that runs into the whole “government gonna take muh guns” but really what is your personal supply of Ar15 going to do against a damn drone strike when it comes to it?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 08/04/2019 at 09:06

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access to firearms is a distinct component of the issue of gun violence, and focusing on the ‘root causes’ does not dismiss the need for reform.

Everything you say here makes perfect sense to me and I do not disagree with a word of it. What I mean to suggest is that additional gun control is something that always comes up, and always, in spite of Sandy Hook or in spite of the big shooting in Las Vegas, to mention two, never winds up going any where because the politicians are all cowards. I do not mean to suggest that there are not too many guns that are too accessible, or that we do not have an insane obsession with guns in this country, but that along with gun control not having gone anywhere, the look at the root causes hasn’t even started. But that won’t happen, either. We’ll just keep reading about these massacres and hope we’re not shopping at Walmart the next time one happens.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jimz 08/04/2019 at 09:10

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I’d never heard “St. Ronnie” before, but I knew about his mental health care gutting. As I heard it, the people just got turned out into the streets and a new homeless class was born.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 08/04/2019 at 09:14

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Your argument is perfectly reasonable, but what problematic about it is that there’s no Second Amendment regarding operating a motor vehicle, which point you make; I’m just looking through the window from the other side.

I don’t have any answers. Just a lot of distress.

DipodomysDeserti > atfsgeoff 08/04/2019 at 10:22

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Where I live it’s not actually a crime to ignore them. If someone at the establishment spots your piece and asks you to leave, you have to, otherwise you’re trespassing.

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 10:26

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It’s just amazing to me how after every time a cop kills an unarmed person, you hear  how hard it is to identify weapons and it’s a really stressful situation.... But then you have these situations where you know the guy has a weapon, and is killing people, yet they arrest them. No one would give a shit if they killed this kid, even if he was surrendering.

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 10:28

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AZ

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DipodomysDeserti 08/04/2019 at 10:55

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I know. I get it. Policing is hugely problematic in this country. At the same time, when has one of these mass shootings been perpetrated by a Black man? I can’t think of one, except maybe the famous one years ago when the guy was suited up in body armor and took on the LAPD. He might’ve been Black. But hey: what about that? And for the record, I did not mind your comment at all, I was only worried about it starting a s**tshow. If you notice the dialog in this thread, nobody’s shouting any slogans, we’re all just putting out facets of the problem as we see them. B ut some of those facets get acquired by the slogan writ ers who want to sell some product or ideology. And the people who shout the slogans are too intellectually lazy to try and notice the difference.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DipodomysDeserti 08/04/2019 at 11:00

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Gabi Giffords’ state. Sad story there, too. And Senator McCain’s state. (Donald Trump’s treatment of Senator McCain is truly deplorable.)

Missus and I visited NM last year, Taos, to be specific, and I liked it there. Santa Fe and Albuquerque, not so much. But Missus was not enamored with Taos.

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 11:13

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Yeah, I lived right around the corner from where she was shot. A good friend of mine was one of her aids but slept in that day and missed the whole thing. A guy I worked with in Tucson randomly had a drink with her before she was shot. By his account she’s a very chill and down to earth person.

I once peed next to Mr. McCain at a movie theater. Solid dude.

Arizona, the last bastion of classic conservatism.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > DipodomysDeserti 08/04/2019 at 11:16

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What does “classic conservatism” mean to you? (Not intended as a trolling sort of question, to be clear...)

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2019 at 11:30

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In a nutshell, the least amount of government intrusion in daily life as possible. Let people decide what is best for themselves regardless of race/religion/sexual persuasion.

Personally, I take it a step further and would remove governmental protections from corporations that want to exploit both  people and ecosystems.