"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
07/27/2019 at 18:05 • Filed to: None
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"Tekamul" (tekamulburner)
07/27/2019 at 18:05 • Filed to: None | 6
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I know they’re over priced, too refined, too ‘future’ , but in person, the NSX looks freakin’ amazeballs.
CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever
> Tekamul
07/27/2019 at 18:14 |
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When PNW Oppo went to Lemay, they had one and we all passed by it.
For Sweden
> Tekamul
07/27/2019 at 18:19 |
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Is that the new Corvette?
PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120
> For Sweden
07/27/2019 at 18:35 |
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Pretty sure it's a Lambo dude.
random001
> For Sweden
07/27/2019 at 18:39 |
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Nah, it's too slow to be a Corvette.
Chariotoflove
> Tekamul
07/27/2019 at 18:41 |
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Agreed. In person it is very impressive.
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Tekamul
> For Sweden
07/27/2019 at 19:03 |
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Yes it is.
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Tekamul
> random001
07/27/2019 at 19:04 |
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Not for nothing, but the NSX is 573hp. I know it has a reputation because of the V6 and that price, but it’s still a 3 second to 60 car.
415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> Tekamul
07/27/2019 at 19:25 |
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They are great, an old guy visits my neighbor in a red one pretty often and I always look at it . The C8 is a disconnected mess sprinkled with Camaro , this car looks like it was designed by a person who knew what they were doing. And unless you track a car, you will never use all the power people complain about some cars not having. I would totally drive one.
dogisbadob
> Tekamul
07/27/2019 at 19:28 |
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Glad it looks good in person
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For Sweden
> Tekamul
07/27/2019 at 19:34 |
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Yes the new Corvette accelerates from 0 to 60 miles per hour in three seconds.
Shift24
> Tekamul
07/27/2019 at 20:23 |
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Here is an idea Honda should take up
A light weight spec (S spec) , stripped out (radio and AC), RWD, v6 turbo only no electric motors (so ~450hp), and $70-80 k.
The NSX becomes a much more interesting car
Don t get me wrong, its already interesting but $ 170k is unattainable. I get that in 90 $1 00k was a shit ton but still.
The vette with similar numbers and mid level option is still 100k less. Honda was aiming for the wrong car
Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> Tekamul
07/27/2019 at 20:49 |
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And $3,000 to re-do the front brakes?
BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Shift24
07/27/2019 at 21:34 |
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Let me FIFY :
T ransverse shared-component drivetrain, relocated to mid-engine, Turbo-I4, V6, or Turbo V6... 300-400hp. Maybe even a PHEV-performance option.
35-45K. Step up from Civic Type R. Think Honda interpretation of SW20 MR2, 30 years modernized. Make it an S -series sports car. S3000, or whatever.
Make it a power folding-hardtop S pyder by default like Miata RF, Ferrari Spyder, McLaren Spyder, etc... retractable rigid roof panel and roll down rear window ,
Make the regular production Type R motorsport option with either a structural fixed hardtop, or a manually removable panel, without the mechanism. (like old Del Sol, or NSX-T)
Sell every last one they can make.
Beat the pants off of Nissan 370Z, and offer more than Miata or BRZ can.
Leave NSX to the rich hybrid crowd, or whatever.
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Shift24
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
07/28/2019 at 01:30 |
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Damn... that would be great. I think $45-5 0k would be right.
To keep cost down the 2.0T is probably the best.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Shift24
07/28/2019 at 02:19 |
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Why so high?
There are TONS of transverse FWD cars to share componentry with.
The average new car transaction price is ~35K.
This would be usually a 2nd or 3rd car.
45-50K is Mustang GT Premium territory, with north of 450 horsepower, on a car that doesn’t share a whole lot of components with lots of other car lines, and well above the lower-priced EcoBoost Mustang that would have similar power levels to a turbo-4 or NA-V6 Honda.
Price point is vitally important for appeal and sales rates, and pricing too high kills the value proposition, like Supra is currently doing... too high a price for the power level, on top of limited practicality, and controversial looks.
Corvette C8 should be an object lesson fresh in our minds, how important price point is... A price point at or under what people would expect creates FAR more positive response and consideration, than a price point that is too high.
NSX is an example, as well as BMW i8, that are good cars, priced TOO HIGH to be widely adopted... and it shows in their resale price for selling on from the first to the second owners, as well as the LOW under-performing sales figures for the cars when new.
Don’t judge it on inflation. Judge it on household discretionary purchasing power. Wages have not kept up with inflation... and the same technology that makes C8 Corvette specs in 2020 similar to Lamborghini Diablo specs in 1990, except on price... that should be happening to cars in the mainstream as well... prices should be coming down, and value should be high, appeal should be high, and customer interest in the product will follow likewise. A value proposition that is perceived as too expensive for what you get will be hampered, and sales likewise.
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Tekamul
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
07/28/2019 at 06:56 |
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Carbons are an option, but i ron is standard.
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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> Tekamul
07/28/2019 at 09:18 |
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My friend runs a shop and folks come in with their coupes and faint when they discover how much a brake job costs. And I bet the salesman forgets to mention that tires are $500 apiece.
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Tekamul
> Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
07/28/2019 at 12:58 |
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People buying a $150k car should expect high maintenance costs. That being said, OEM tires for an NSX seem to be $260 front, $380 rear.
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Shift24
> BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
07/28/2019 at 14:46 |
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I am looking at it from a cost to manufacture/ability to get to market . And you’re assuming mass production, like the Vette, Mustang, and Supra are in the sense as they have true assembly lines.
Again this is hypothetical, but where Honda would make this is probably the PMC plant here in M arysville (NSX plant).
Th ese would most would be hand built with little automation. All other plants for NA Honda are basically at full capacity as they have had to shift around CR-V production from plant to plant. This would make it very hard for a plant to be updated for the change.
Th is would be sold as the either the baby Acura NSX or S2k replacement. And people forget the S2k was not cheap $35k starting in 2008. I have no clue how they would keep cost even 1 0 years later.
And I see this at S2k or Mia ta production numbers 5k-10k, not mustang 80k or vette at 25k a year. The more units allow you to spread cost across more units. And with no data saying a MR 2 replacement would a ctually sell in the SUV craze, you have to assume for the worst.
The only possibility is they are expanding the Marysille Accord plant to get ready for the shift of all Civic beings made for in NA. Possible they could add tooling in there but doubtful.
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Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
> Tekamul
07/28/2019 at 16:40 |
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I wasn't off by much. If you've got the dough, then why not? I think a bunch of folks manage to get into a more exotic car without fully considering what they'll need for a maintenance budget.
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BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
> Shift24
07/28/2019 at 18:45 |
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Maybe you are right, and obviously more familiar with Honda’s manufacturing infrastructure than I am...
but I am not sure that I agree with having to be hand-built with little automation, if there were to be available capacity. the whole reason f or transverse mid-engined, is that the power unit can be sub-assembled, and installed very much like a FWD front-engined car, with many of the same automated processes, which, along with shared parts bins, makes cars like this affordable, both to produce and buy.
But from a first-impression consumer standpoint...
If I heard of a new S3000 Honda ( mid-engined baby NSX) , with a transverse engine... and the price is 45K to 50K... I would tend to write it off as a bit too expensive to justify.
Can’t afford it after paying for a reliable daily driver and family practical car. A CR-V, Pilot, Accord, Ridgeline, or whatever.... plus, why twice as expensive as a Civic? A bit more, maybe... but double? Why so much more than a 370Z, which is already too old to justify it’s price?
If I hear the same thing, and the price starts 10 grand less... psychologically, it starts to look like a better value. Then it is in 370Z price range. Then, maybe if I buy a main family car that is a year or two older, or keep the one I have a year or two longer, I might be able to make the finances work, as a second car as a new car purchase.
It is hard enough to justify buying ANY car as a new car, rather than used, for most of the working population... let alone a second, less practical one. Pricing it out of reach is an instant killer.
The people with more money to be able to buy enthusiast cars more easily ... are already buying Corvettes, Porsches. BMWs, V8 muscle cars , or maybe even considering the new NSX.
The Honda I am talking about wouldn’t compete well in that arena, as I think Supra will learn once the novelty wears of, just as NSX is having a hard time competing near 200 grand, with Porsche Turbo, Audi R8, and McLaren 570, and all manner of other exotic nameplates, new and slightly used.
Again, don’t go by what the S2000 used to cost. It was a great car, but it didn’t sell as well as Miata did, not because Miata was better, but because Miata was more affordable, and a better value. 30% less money for a smaller perceived difference in capability. Wages have been stagnant, and affordability has only become more of a factor.
Arguably, if there is a down-turn in the automotive industry, prices increasing faster than wages and ability to pay, and people who ignore that being in too much debt, is going to be a big reason.
If a small H onda, or whatever-brand sports car can’t sell to the guy making average salary kind of money, for average new car kind of money, after paying for the mortgage and the family hauler... it won’t survive.
If it can sell to that guy, it would be one of the very few cars on the market in the right price range , especially if it can be a bit more compelling than the prohibitively small, and low-power 200hp BRZ/86, or even the Miata.
It should and could easily be much more current, interesting, and beautiful than the neglected 370Z.... and something distinct from Mustang EcoBoost, as not front engined, and not focused on past glory. Something new, instead.
Again, how big of a splash did C8 make by announcing the price point that is NOT perceived as too expensive for what the car is? If they had started at 70 or 75K, rather than ‘under’ 60K... the C8 intro would have been a blip, and already dismissed as just another expensive toy, like all the rest... The PRICE is the reason a bunch of new people who dismissed Corvettes as boomer-mobiles, are now thinking that they might actually buy a GM product for fun!
We don’t need another car to compete with that.
We need that effect in the segment BELOW that... starting around 30-35K, and topping out under 50K fully loaded, which is a DRASTICALLY under-served segment, aside from the retro- muscle-coupe triplets.
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random001
> Tekamul
07/28/2019 at 21:31 |
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Its not because it has a V6, it’s because it doesn’t have a V8. BOOM!
I was just making a joke...