A rant

"Spanfeller is a twat" (theaspiringengineer) 07/13/2019 at 19:28 • Filed to: None

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I just read a piece about the Touareg being over engineered.

No...

I know that the term “over engineered” is supposed to mean that something is over complicated... But it’s a misnomer.

An LS is over engineered. The MK1 Touareg was under-engineered... To overengineer something is to make it way too robust for an application. Say, like using a 50W resistor in a circuit with 4W. It’s unnecessary and just increases cost.

If anything, a well engineered device is not over complicated . Over complicating stuff is expensive, and if complications are not necessary , they should be avoided like a plague. How can the Touareg be used as an example of over-engineering if maintenance is so hard?

Also, Piech is overrated. He seems more like a Human Resources nightmare than any sort of brilliant businessman or car geek .

His Stigness > Spanfeller is a twat 07/13/2019 at 19:46

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Piëch was unbelievably effective at getting shit done at VW. And through his own personal ambitions, he was able to grow VW into the largest automaker in the world. I don’t think VW would be the largest automaker today if he hadn’t been CEO and later Chairman.

And if it hadn’t been for Piëch the XL1 and Veyron would never have been created. 

Spanfeller is a twat > His Stigness 07/13/2019 at 19:50

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Yeah, but it was Piech’s missmanagement that lead to Dieselgate; which might be the most intese scandal any car company has seen*


*: I know GM’s ignition switch thing was also intense, but it didn’t gather the mediatic attention that Diesel gate did.

I think that sometimes we gloss over some of the bad stuff about Piech.

f86sabre > Spanfeller is a twat 07/13/2019 at 20:13

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Clean, elegant design is nice when yo7 see t, but there are always compromises.We are seeing new de signs in aerospace that are super light and look simple. They take advantage of new manufacturing techniques.  The trouble is that they take a part down to minimum materials and there is nothing there if you have to rework one for corrosion or other damage.  They become one time use items and then they are garbage.

A friend of mine has the V10 Deisel. It is an interesting vehicle. He’s stockpiling hard to find parts for the future.

Spanfeller is a twat > f86sabre 07/13/2019 at 20:22

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I suppose there’s some logic behind it, beyond any marketing malice trying to make repairs more expensive.

Alfalfa > Spanfeller is a twat 07/13/2019 at 20:25

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This is something that irks me as well. There seems to be 2 definitions of the term. I've always understood it meant to be overly durable by design, but recently some people seem to disagree.

DipodomysDeserti > Spanfeller is a twat 07/13/2019 at 21:09

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You ever talked to an engineer for an extended period of time? “ Over engineered”  is an apt description for something that is needlessly overcomplicated. At some point someone has to tell the brainiacs to cálmate.

Spanfeller is a twat > DipodomysDeserti 07/13/2019 at 21:31

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For the last three or such years, I’ve spoken to engineers on an almost daily basis. We’re always told to design stuff “for the user ”, not so much for us.

Unless we are the users and it’s an endless cycle. Oh Mi Dios.

facw > Spanfeller is a twat 07/13/2019 at 22:07

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I think the term “overengineered” can refer to both the case of something that’s stronger/more durable/etc. than it needs to be, but also to the case where you have a needlessly complicated solution. They are both situations where you have expended more than needed.

I tend to agree with Antoine de Saint Exupéry’s observation that “It seems that perfection is attained, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to take away.” but spend enough time engineering and you will definitely meet people who think otherwise. It’s also worth noting that overly complex solutions need not be inherently bad, they may work better than the simpler solution (which is why the are appealing), they just may add development or maintenance costs which could have been avoided with a different approach .

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > f86sabre 07/14/2019 at 00:21

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Aerospace engineers aren’t designing those parts just   to be lightweight or simple. They are designing to requirements from management that come from discussions with the customers. Yes they are taking advantage of new ways to make thing light for fuel efficiency. But the customers - the airlines - have decided they don’t want parts that can be reworked because the aircraft mechanics are a cost their managers think they can reduce . The airlines would rather the parts be one use and then garbage because it’s cheaper to pay to swap the part than rework it so that’s what the aircraft manufacturers have their engineers design. It’s too difficult to fight project managers and controllers at aircraft companies to actually design something that is as good as it can be anymore. That’s why my aerospace engineering diploma is sitting on a shelf somewhere in storage (honestly I don’t even know where it is anymore) and I’m doing something only tangentially related where I can actually design things to be as good as we can make them cost be damned rather than stuff that just breaks and gets thrown out because that’s cheaper.

His Stigness > Spanfeller is a twat 07/14/2019 at 00:54

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I don’t think that was mismanagement at all, it was intentional.

Now, GM’s ignition switch was massive mismanagement and utter incompetence. And pure American laziness.

I'm not mad at VW because their cheat was so utterly ingenious. 

Spanfeller is a twat > His Stigness 07/14/2019 at 01:10

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Any manager that needs to break the law and lie to customers in order to be relevant in a market is a bad manager. No amount of ingenuity changes that. VW set an impossibly high standard even they couldn’t hold themselves to and that strangled the automotive world. Piech left and now others need to deal with his mess. That sounds like a purely lazy and incompetent  manager to me.

I would hate to work for someone like Piech.

His Stigness > Spanfeller is a twat 07/14/2019 at 01:19

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They didn’t need to, they chose to. It was a cost benefit analysis. They figured without Ad Blue they’d save a few hundred dollars on each unit, and assumed the fines if they got caught.

But yes, he would probably be terrible to work for. If you told him no you were fired. 

f86sabre > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com 07/14/2019 at 03:24

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I appreciate the time and energy in your reply, but airlines are not asking for that. My engineers participate in industry activities along with Boeing, Airbus, Pratt, GE and the whole rest of the industry (AMC and MMC, CACRC, MARPA, ARSA and OEM established events) and our organization, and near as I can tell our major air carrier   peers, are not asking for that. Sure, we appreciate ease of maintenance at a macro level, but we still need to be able to repair the bits and pieces.