I'm worried what will happen when I need a new car (rental car review++)

"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori) 07/12/2019 at 11:45 • Filed to: Rental Car Review

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As some of you may know, I have a couple cars. Five at the moment. However, the newest of them in a 2013. Not old by any standards, but just now starting to act like not a new car. Little things, like a pressure sensor going back and a slight weirdness at idle. I shouldn’t complain, it has given me six years of almost trouble free running.

However, at some point I might need a “new” car again.

The nice thing about the 2013 is that it is dependable. It starts, stops, and goes without any worry or hesitation on my part. It is always there to take me where I needed to be when the other four were acting up.

So, eventually, it’ll be in the same boat as the other four. Eventually more and more stuff will start wearing out. I’ll replace it, of course, the Volvo gets what it needs.

Anyway, I do predict a day when I need a “new” “reliable” car for whatever reason and I am terrified.

I spent the last week with two very different rentals. The first one was a 2019 Chevrolet Tahoe Z71. The second a 2019 Toyota Camry. With MSRPs of around $65,000 for one and $25,000 they had a lot in common, shockingly.

Mostly: I hated both of them.

Both had relatively cramped interiors despite their large size. Both had lethargic and willfully disobedient 8+ gear automatic transmissions. Both had a suite of safety tech that weirdly didn’t include blind spot monitoring but without fail seemed to do more harm than good. Both had a decent amount of power for their size on paper.

I’m not saying either is a bad car. Really you’d be hard pressed to find a “bad” car being made right now... except the Mirage... but neither were... enjoyable.

The Tahoe had a lot of power and when that V8 decided it was going to go it went . But the problem was it never seemed to want to go. Like most new cars the throttle position seemed to have very little to do with the power output. At 10% throttle it struggled to move from a stop, but at 12% throttle it would lunge forward, suddenly overcompensating for its lack of action before. This problem was even worse on the freeway, when needing a little burst of speed to change lanes or merge the engine refused to do anything quickly unless floored, and even then it was reluctant to grant my requests.

The Camry had all of the above problems, but without the eventual power to back it up. Even floored the performance was mediocre at best. Off the line it barely moved at all, exacerbated by its desire to in 4th gear from a dead stop. On the highway it never seemed to use 7th and 8th, so it effectively had a three-speed transmission.

Truly the golden age of automotive design.

Both vehicles has some automatic lane keeping/ steering tech. Neither worked very well. The Tahoe’s would somewhat erratically steer you back into your lane if you strayed, but when the system was active the whole car felt unsettled. Like the system was dragging on the steering and making the car wander. With the system off, it drove like a normal SUV. Well planted even, for its size.

While I was annoyed with the Tahoe’s system for not having a lot of indication for when it was correcting, I was annoyed with the Camry’s system for... well existing. Compared to the Tahoe the Camry’s system was much weaker and more more inclined to give up or not do anything at all. Its response was inconsistent at best. Sometimes it would beep, sometimes it would steer, sometime it would do both. Once it was very determined to make me collide with a construction barrier, which was... fun. It stayed off after that.

The Camry also had radar guided cruise control, which was exciting! I’d never had a chance to play with one of those and I was super interested in playing with it.

It was bad.

It doesn’t really warn you when it is about to adjust your speed and tends to do so before you’d expect. The result is even in very light traffic you’ll come up behind someone going slower and the system would slam on the brakes before you got a chance to change lanes. After the car is cleared, it goes back up to speed like a cruise that is off target, which is to say quickly and with a lot of throttle. That can’t be good for economy.

Even on the lowest follow distance setting the cruise left an (ir)responsible amount of space between me and the car in front. Good for safety, but that large of a gap in traffic gave enough room people would constantly cut in front of me, causing the system to brake harder than was socially acceptable, which caused the gap to reopen, which caused more people to cut in front. I can envision a situation in which it would come to a complete stop from people cutting in front of it. If it wasn’t for....

Also the system gives up if your speed drops below a threshold. Not sure what it is, but it doesn’t warn you before it says “fuck it” and lets you hit the guy in front of you.

Let me explain. I was on a rural highway with stoplights. Curious what it would do in stop and go traffic, I set my follow distance to maximum and locked on to the car in front of me. As we approached the stop light the Camry automatically slowed, slowed, slowed.... not smoothly mind you, but it was doing it. Then, as we were nearly stopped, it just... stopped braking. Apparently I’d reached the arbitrary threshold at which the system stopped working. There was no warning. Now I was on a collision course with the car in front, rather than gently following it. Of course we were maybe going 20 MPH so it wasn’t a big deal, but fuck me that seems like a design flaw.

After that I turned the radar cruise off.

Or, rather I tried to turn it off.

As it turns out your options are no cruise or radar cruise. “Normal” cruise is apparently not an option.

Fuck you too, Toyota.

But that brings me to the problem with this tech. If you can’t rely on it, why is it even there?

If the lane keep gives up if it has to try too hard, or tries very hard to make you crash, why is it there? If the radar cruise gets near to stopping you, but then couldn’t be bothered to finish, why does it brake at all?

Gimmicks and toys.

Engines, transmissions, and fly-by-wire throttles designed for economy rather than obedience.

Manufacturer installed spyware.

Laggy, unintuitive touchscreens.

Why would anyone buy a new car?

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 11:54

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This kind of stuff is why I still love my 2009 Accent with absolutely no gimmicky tech stuff. Hell, it doesn’t even have ABS, Cruise, A/C or ESC...(I do miss the A/C and Cruise though). Otherwise, everything is analog and just works. Climate control is 3 dials on the dash. The transmission always finds the right gear for the situation I am in because it’s a manual and I do it. Blind-spot monitoring is me looking in ***properly adjusted mirrors*** (SO many people these days don’t know how to properly adjust their mirrors...) and shoulder checking...lane-keeping warnings are me actually watching what I am doing...

I don’t know...I love technology, I do computer repair and tutoring on as a side business, but a lot of the stuff in newer cars just seems un necessary to me...

Now I sound old...lol.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 07/12/2019 at 11:57

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I show my wife how to properly adjust her mirrors, but she still insists on setting them so half her view is the side of the car. :/

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 11:58

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Complete agree. I just got a 2016 V60 and am happy to report the only driver aids it has are blind spot monitor - not super useful but at least not annoying and auto emergency braking (haven’t tried it yet).

My mom’s F orester (15 I think) is nice but:

Requires extreme finesse to launch without jerking; otherwise I actually don’t hate the CVT.

Lane departure far more annoying than useful and has to be turned off every time.

Radar cruise somewhat useful though not particularly smooth. I think it will slow all the way to a stop.

Volvo has a 6-speed auto which isn’t awful though I end up using it in manual mode most of the time. 

HammerheadFistpunch > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:02

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It reminds me of buying my new tv. Sure the price was low and the picture was great...but they wanted to have me sign away so much just to use their smart services. Samsung was going to log anything I watched...anything. No thanks. It’ s nice to have app remotes, its nice to have built in apps. What’ s nicer is to not have my TV collecting data on me just to use them. and no, I don’t care about your exclusive services and apps Samsung...thats just trash you stuffed in there.

Gerry197 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:04

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At least for my F150 for example, it has a “sport” mode with the transmission that made a world of difference.

Not only did it hold the gears longer when speeding up or slowing down, but the throttle response was night and day.

It honestly felt sporty in sport mode. However, obviously tuned for economy when not.

Was there a sport or performance setting with the vehicles you drove? Allows you to have the best of both worlds.

fintail > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:04

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Having picked up a 2019 car this year, I can relate to some of it. Throttle, transmission, and stopping while using radar cruise are fine. No touchscreen (I hate touchscreens), and smooth crisp HD screens as expected from a modern MB. The drivers assist/distronic is fine in gridlock or light traffic, but in dense/normal local traffic, is irksome, and I switch it off in those conditions. Like you experienced, it won’t follow close enough, so cars will change lanes in front of you/into your lane, causing the semi-autonomous system to brake, sometimes harshly, which makes more of a gap and encourages more people to change into your lane. Also, it sometimes isn’t smooth - reacting slowly when the car it is pacing accelerates, lagging then flooring it. The steering assist usually does a good job, but sometimes reacts late, which is unnerving.

Other quirks are a lane departure system that is too sensitive - not understanding how one might cut corners in tight curves, then applying the brakes thinking a crash is near - stop that. It also can “ping pong” in a lane, as if testing both edges. The parking system is great with multiple cameras, but will also apply the brakes if it thinks the car is too close to an obstacle, which also feels like you hit/ran over something. In tight urban spaces, it is a necessity to park a few inches from a barrier, but the car doesn’t like this.

The engine is great for power and efficiency, build and material quality are high, it is nice looking, but some of the tech still feels like it is in beta test mode.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:05

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That seems like a really horrible version of radar cruise control. Completely agree that some of these systems are horrible, and there is too much variation from brand to brand. I’ve heard Kia/Hyundai systems are good.

Our Subaru Outback is not bad but we rarely use it. It is able to do radar cruise all the way down to zero and back up, while some other cars cut off below a certain speed like you experienced. The lane keep assist in our car is pretty weak…it does tug at you a bit if you wander on a mostly straight road, but even the slightest curve and it turns off – or if it decides it can’t read the lanes well enough, even though it is visibly very clearly marked. We turn that on when we’re on long freeway drives, but don’t really rely on it in any way – we use it purely as a backstop. The blind spot monitoring is handy, but too sensitive – I know that sensitivity varies a LOT from car to car as well (fun game on the freeway to see how close you have to get to passing cars for the little mirror light to come on).

There should be some kind of minimum standard that all manufacturers are required to adhere to – or if they can’t don’t offer any of it. That way at least we know the minimum we can expect from any car we get in to. I can see how the current situation would get tricky especially if you’re switching between cars on a regular basis, or if you rely on rental cars frequently.

random001 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:06

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Sounds like you need to go electric....

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 07/12/2019 at 12:06

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I am lightly shopping ND Miatas and as basic as that car is, I still look down the features list and there are SO MANY “tech features” I would cut if I didn’t have to pay for it.

Cameras? parking sensors? lane departure assist? blind spot monitoring? The car is so damn small, c an we even drive ourselves anymore?!

VincentMalamute-Kim > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:07

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I try to minimize tech in my cars. I try not to buy new cars. I’m more than thrilled when I have the ability to open the car doors by magically pushing a button on a remote on my keychain.

How about keeping two medium reliable older daily drivers instead of one new car? (Out of your five cars - which is how many I have too). So one is backup when the other needs repair. And you deal with the occasional tow when you breakdown on the road.

I know they market ‘pedal commanders’ that remove that pedal lag for sportier cars.  I wonder if they’d have them for more mass market cars like the Camry or Tahoe.  Probably do for the Tahoe .

VincentMalamute-Kim > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 07/12/2019 at 12:08

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I like to OCD ‘optimize’ everything like that. I gave up trying to explain to people proper mirror adjustment so your side mirrors don’t show the exact same view as your rear view mirror.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:11

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I had a Subaru Outback with Eye sight. I hated it. The roads were covered with snow and it was constantly telling me I was not driving on the road. It also has automatic emergency braking that randomly engaged when a stray piece of dust flies in front of your car. It actually engaged when someone turned left in front of me about 50 yards away, very much a safe move and I would never have even let off the gas let alone hit the brakes.

I like the new camry, I had a 2019 as a rental and it was great as a car for me. Most of my driving was on 2 lane highways at 50-70 mph, no issues at all and didn’t notice the transmission being lame.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:11

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“Normal” cruise is apparently not an option.

Really? I find this hard to believe. 

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Gerry197 07/12/2019 at 12:13

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Nope! No sport mode to be found on either.

Both had manually shifted options, which did help, but I am generally against those modes in an automatic car.  The shift lag is too long and generally the mechanism for shifting is bad.

Textured Soy Protein > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:20

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Well, in defense of new cars, GM and especially Toyota are a couple of the worst companies at in-car tech right now. 

Right now for mainstream cars I feel like Mazda, Honda, and Hyundai/Kia are killing it. Subaru and— shudder —VW are up there too.

Mazda’s infotainment is a little clunky but their chassis dynamics have always been on point. They’ve really upped their interior quality and overall NVH refinement. Most of the active safety nannies can be adjusted to a lower sensitivity level or deactivated entirely. Their 6-speed automatic transmissions do what you want but mpgs aren’t up to other brands with more gears.

Honda got lost in the woods for a while there with horrendous dual-screen infotainment nonsense, active safety gizmos that turn themselves back on every time you start the car, and uninspiring chassis. B ut their new platforms are excellent and they’re finally un-fucking up their infotainment and safety nannies.

Hyundai/Kia give you the most features for the money by far and they’re generally very good at leaning in the comfy direction of the mainstream car segment. Their infotainment is among the best at being simple, functional, and staying the fuck out of your way. Some of the interior materials feel a little crappy compared to Honda and especially Mazda .

VW has had its many problems over the years but their platforms are good and their tech is actually pretty damn decent. In the upper trims with the full-screen “gauges” those are pretty sweet, and their headunits are pretty straightforward. They give you some premium touches but I feel like they’ve gotten cheaper with their interior materials over time. Used to be in the 90s and 00s VW had the surprisingly upscale interior materials for the class but they’ve ceded some of that ground to Mazda IMHO . Quality/reliability has always been a question mark, but at least they’re pushing long warranties to dig out from the dieselgate hole.

Subaru’s new platform that started with the 2017 Impreza/Crosstrek and is now making its way across the lineup (it’s in the new Forester, Ascent, and upcoming Legacy/Outback) is solid. Their tech is starting to get halfway decent but it’s still not actually good, and the problem is they have too many separate screens and modules in their cars that often don’t talk to each other, and straight-up baffling cost-cutting decision making . My wife had a 2016 Impreza hatchback and the little LCD screen in the gauge cluster would only say “door/hatch/trunk open” and not tell you which one was fucking open.   How much money could Subaru have possibly saved by putting all the door/trunk switches on the same circuit?!

Textured Soy Protein > HammerheadFistpunch 07/12/2019 at 12:21

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Samsung TVs are hella overpriced and their app platform is utter shite compared to Roku. 

Shift24 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:24

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If you get a chance, drive a new accord. Holy hell batman is there is a ton of room. The car actually got smaller but interior room increased.

I drove a very early 1 .5T (I recommend the 2.0l) but it had decent pep to it, no real complaints but cvt. The 2.0T has a rush of power and they didn’t screw up the 10 speed like they did the 9spd on the tlx. Also you can get a manual with the 2.0l as well as the 1.5t

But the leg room is no joke. Front seat all the way back and and I had to slouch to even touch it with my knee (I’m 6'). And the console is  not super intrusive like the Camry’s

I will also say I have encountered Toyota’s cruise follow system and its shit. You described it perfectly . Haven’t tried Honda’s but I would bet money it’s not as intrusive.

And Honda has started to listen and started to put physical buttons back in cars infotainment systems . The civic was the first last year when they added the volume nob back

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:28

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The radar cruise turns off at 15mph in the Toyotas even in the automatics? Interesting, I thought the 15mph cutoff was just for the manuals since it doesn't have any way to work the clutch and avoid stalling itself.

7:07 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:28

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I had a similar experience driving a 2018 Suburban. The throttle input was the worst I had experienced to date. It was impossible to drive smoothly.

Contrast this with my experiences driving FCA products with the ZF 8 speed. That transmission seemed telepathic in choosing gears and it was even better in sport mode. Do yourself a favor and try an R/T or SRT Durango just as a comparison to the Tahoe . You might like it. Also, the radar cruise and lane keep stuff work like they should.

Sovande > MiniGTI - now with XJ6 07/12/2019 at 12:29

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I thought the V60 from 2015.5 on was an 8 speed unit? My 2015.5 is an 8 speed with the Drive-e motor an d (useless) flappy paddles.

The auto-stop function actually saved me once in close traffic. It’s not intrusive at all and simply stopped the car.

*Edit - I din’t realize the AWD V60 still used the 6 speed in 2016. I guess you still have the 5 cylinder motor, not the 4 cylinder Drive-e.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > fintail 07/12/2019 at 12:43

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Ughh the Mercedes lane stop jerk. So dang annoying. I think I ended up turning Lane Monitoring off on all of the ones I’ve had and w ill probably  be one of the first things I do in the G.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:46

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Happy our 2018 Grand Caravan lacks all the gimmicks, but has all the important handling goodies.

The throttle has a different feel than I’m used to, not what you experienced, just not as direct as the cable throttle I’m used to.

MM54 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 12:46

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Like you said, gimmicks and toys. The salesman can show the consumer all this wow-so-high-tech great tricks and other bullshit to sell the car, then they either never use it or, as you’ve seen, they don’t work but the car’s already sold.

Also the throttle response in new cars is disgustingly bad. I miss when the gas pedal had a cable connecting it to the throttle.

There’s a reason my ‘One Good Car’ is from 1999 :)

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > VincentMalamute-Kim 07/12/2019 at 12:48

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In the 10+ years I’ve been driving 90s Mopars, most of which have had around/over 200k miles, I’ve never been left stranded.

If you keep up on maintenance/repairs, the chances of an “unexpected” breakdown are very slim.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast 07/12/2019 at 12:51

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I know! I feel people are becoming worse drivers because the tech features baby us so much...

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > VincentMalamute-Kim 07/12/2019 at 12:52

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Yup! I was taught the three mirrors are sortof like looking at a panorama...left mirror is the left side, then it’s ‘edge’ touches what you see on the rearview, and the same of the right mirror, if that makes sense...

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 07/12/2019 at 12:54

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I drive a 2013 Sonic now that has a touch screen for the infotainment but no cameras . I was driving a (younger) coworker and backing into a parking space, and she seemed shocked that I was doing it without a backup camera on the screen.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 12:54

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I think one of the FP authors confirmed this in his review. But yeah, to my knowledge you cannot turn it off.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > VincentMalamute-Kim 07/12/2019 at 12:57

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Yeah between the Disco and the Volvo I’m usually OK.  There was a weird week where the Volvo was in the shop for an ECU problem, the Disco was at the body shop, and it was too cold to want to drive the Alfa, so I was daily driving the Saab.  It was a weird week. 

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 07/12/2019 at 12:58

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Remember that time Samsung’s TVs could be remotely controlled and their front facing cameras turned on without your knowledge or consent? I ‘member.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 07/12/2019 at 13:02

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I saw on the build sheet an option for “full speed radar cruise” so maybe you have to pay more for it to work?

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > random001 07/12/2019 at 13:03

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:shudder:

punkgoose17 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 13:05

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My rental Nissan Altima had better radar cruise control than that. They couldn’t even match the interior trim panels in the car, some were fake wood, some were fake carbon fiber.

random001 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 13:08

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I would have agreed with you until I bought one for the gas savings, but now...well, they are wicked fun.  Transmission never has to decide when to shift, because it’s just there.  Power is always available and linear as hell.

random001 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 13:08

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Oh, and usually you can shut off the adaptive cruise by holding down the button that adjusts the following distance.  Pro-tip.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast 07/12/2019 at 13:09

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I can understand needing cameras or them being useful on larger vehicles....but small-medium-sized cars? I don’t think they really need them...

HammerheadFistpunch > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 13:10

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Its why my tv isn’t hooked up to my internet.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 13:16

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Maybe. I've only been looking at manuals so it just made sense that the radar cruise would turn off at 15. It seems stranger to me that the lane departure warning turns off at 32mph in the Corolla.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 13:22

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I’ve run into some of this, but my 2017 F-150 also doesn’t have most of the fancy safety tech stuff. At first, I felt similarly to you about the throttle on it (with the added factor of a couple of turbos spooling up). I’m not a fan of sport mode on it, as it feels artificially aggressive to inputs and the shift points make no sense for the turbos and torque curve of the engine. They’re overly aggressive even for towing, but they do make the rear tires want to turn into smoke and noise with relatively small throttle inputs at any speed below about 60mph.   I think there is a substantial learning ability over time, as after a month or two of ownership the throttle and I got along. I could also be that both of us learned something about what we expected the other to do. It’s possible you would feel differently given enough time in either car.

Two years in, and the throttle does what I command it to do, how I want it to do it, probably 99.5 % of the time. There’s still the occasional high rpm downshift it commands that I didn’t want instead of holding gear and riding the turbos as moderate boost builds , but otherwise we’re in sync (pun not intended). Between the throttle and I getting along and me learning how to best exploit turbo spool up and gearing in low rpm, moderate acceleration load conditions, my half-ton truck normally returns 20-21mpg in city driving.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/12/2019 at 13:30

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You and I have such opposite experiences. My 93 Caravan stranded me at least three times. 98 and 03 Caravans were fine.

OTOH, brand new 2017 Transit stranded me just south of O’Hare on 7 lanes of northbound traffic on I-294 where it merges with I-290 after just I merged from I-88. That one was unpleasant.

I keep up on maintenance and a one year Transit shouldn’t need any. Luck? Karma? I need to help more old ladies cross streets.

thejustache > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 07/12/2019 at 13:32

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Don’t worry, I write computer software and I don’t want any in my cars if I can help it either. I guess what I’m saying is I feel old too... but I’m ok with it.

Just the difference between my 2005 OBXT and my wife’s 2013 Tucson is pretty drastic. I don’t hate her car for what it is - a family hauler with some comfort features - but there are already little electrical gremlins I’m sure will just keep getting worse.

I really wish a manufacturer would buck the trend and offer a super basic model or trim line. Modern crash structures, some air bags, optional ABS probably , but little to nothing else. I mean I get why they do what they do to drive profit while their sales volume goes down, but I don’t like it. If I had a few spare billion dollars, I think I’d want to build a new car company for people like us. Sure the market would be small, and time between repeat buys would be very long. I f it’s cheap enough to produce & maintain though at some point I feel like it would start to siphon off the customers that want a new car but don’t want to pay $40k over 8 years for a new camry with leather ez-bake oven gloveboxes and satellite tire rotation that bricks your car when it fails.

VincentMalamute-Kim > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 07/12/2019 at 13:34

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Complete sense.  We’re preaching to the choir.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15131074/how-to-adjust-your-mirrors-to-avoid-blind-spots/

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > Sovande 07/12/2019 at 13:51

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Right, I think only the 4cyl drive-e models get the 8-speed. Actually I wish I had flappy paddles, but a least having the manual mode on the stick makes me a little less sad that I had to give up a manual. 

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > thejustache 07/12/2019 at 14:03

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You can still get basic models from a lot of companies in Europe. I am sure there are still tech features, but from what I understand, many companies still offer basic trims without all the fancy gizmos over there.

I basically just want a low-spec car without all the gadgets except safety. ABS, ESC, and airbags are fine. Not sure I would need the whole ‘collision avoidance system’ that is on a lot of cars either, I am sure it works OK, but....if you’re paying attention to the road, wouldn’t you see the same thing that the system is stopping you for anyway? Also, isn’t there a chance the emergency braking system could activate accidentally?

Sovande > MiniGTI - now with XJ6 07/12/2019 at 14:10

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I want to get the Polestar tune for mine.  It is essentially a transmission remap and supposedly makes the car more fun.  I do miss a manual as well, but I don’t have any real complaints about the car, especially after installing the big IPD rear sway bar and powerflex torque rod bushing.

Jordan > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 14:13

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I think the only cars on sale not affected by these problems are the Porsche 911 or 718's without any options, cars that have been on sale for a long time, and crapcans like the Mitsubishi Mirage, which backup camera aside, feels like its from 1996.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > random001 07/12/2019 at 14:21

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I tired that.  Maybe I didn’t hold it for long enough...

thejustache > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 07/12/2019 at 14:26

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Yeah I’ve been 2 Ireland twice in the last 2 years and rented cars both times. I had a Opel Corsa the first time and a Renault Clio the second. Both were manual, both had airbags but little else. I found the Clio pretty gutless with it’s 75hp, but the Corsa and it’s 99hp felt plenty for the roads . In both cases it was refreshing to be in a modern small car that was comfortable with itself being simple. If I could buy an Opel Corsa here in the states I probably would.

I am fine with ABS in my cars (especially if it’s deactivatable with a fuse pull), but I also learned to drive on a car without it in the winter and got used to threshold braking etc. Same goes for ESC - I guess if it’s completely defeat able I’d be ok with it on my car, but I’m much prefer not having it. My wife’s tucson has some form of it, and playing around in a snowy parking lot with it on was pretty odd. With the center diff locked and throwing it into a corner fast, it got very unpredictable. Mostly it would just cut power at random times, but that meant sometimes it would slow and other times it’d end up snap oversteering the opposite way I wanted. With esc off it was still not as easy to control sideways as my Subaru, but worlds better. I get that engineers aren’t really designing their SUVs for parking lot antics, but I’m much more comfortable driving a car in bad weather on the road when I’m fully confident in how it will react!

  Old-school cruise is pretty nice, but I don’t want adaptive and definitely don’t want any emergency braking. I had a rental prius last year and the adaptive cruise just shut itself off half the time until I would restart the car. I was less than impressed

random001 > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 16:07

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It may not work anymore.  It’s worked on three different cars for me, but some cars have a button.  It’s long, though, like 10 seconds.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > VincentMalamute-Kim 07/12/2019 at 16:09

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Vehicles that have stranded us:

2012 Corolla, 3 times.

2004 F250, once.

1995 Voyager Sport, once ( in it’s defense I knew the fuel pump was on it’s way out and we were only a few blocks from home, so I walked home and got the other van, then tow strapped it home ).

Otherwise all my vehicles have gotten us where we were headed every single time.

I look at it this way, ANY vehicle can strand you at any point, regardless of year/make/mileage.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > random001 07/12/2019 at 16:21

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Ahh ok I tried for maybe 3 or 5 seconds but then I needed to use the steering wheel for steering.  Also my gas mileage when up when I took over which is... interesting.

fintail > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 07/12/2019 at 17:21

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I wish the sensitivity could be adjusted.

OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars > fintail 07/12/2019 at 17:26

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Absolutely , also wish i could turn off the brake part of it. The fact that it brakes do es not even make that much sense to me.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/12/2019 at 19:38

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I look at it this way, ANY vehicle can strand you at any point, regardless of year/make/mileage.

True. Our totals are similar. Just d ifferent marques for the bad boys.

fintail > OpposResidentLexusGuy - USE20, XF20, XU30 and Press Cars 07/12/2019 at 20:31

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Exactly, like if you had to leave the lane on purpose, sounds like a way to contribute to an accident if the car forced itself to brake hard .

I’d like a lot more user-configurable settings, but given the moronic nature of most drivers, maybe it’s good that such features can’t be modified, as people can’t even properly manage auto headlights.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo 07/12/2019 at 22:26

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Need to test this in my truck.

I know I can disable it in my wife’s Acura.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > thejustache 07/13/2019 at 06:47

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Agreed! I just want regular cruise control and the ability to turn ABS off completely if I want to!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > VincentMalamute-Kim 07/15/2019 at 07:10

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I totals are probably very far off, we’ve had something like 28 vehicles over the years since I started driving. The 3 I listed were the only ones to ever strand us, the first 2 were newer/low mileage, the 3rd was 22 years old with 205k at the time.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/15/2019 at 17:19

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Our stats are different. I’ve owned 13 cars and 3 motorcycles in 40 years of driving. I forgot a 1980 or something Nissan Stanza whose engine seized before I learned about maintenance.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > VincentMalamute-Kim 07/15/2019 at 17:23

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28 vehicles, over 20+ years of driving........

I’ve always put a lot of miles on per year, so I’ve run many vehicles 2-300k over that timespan.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > VincentMalamute-Kim 07/15/2019 at 17:29

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There was a 1987 Nissan Pulsar that launched an engine spectacularly in a “drag race” against a 1989 Civic, I didn’t include it because that little bastard got me the 30 miles home running on 3 cylinders with the 4th hammering around.....

VincentMalamute-Kim > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/15/2019 at 21:26

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I was going to give you “ most interesting” but I forgot my turbo 3.3 that put a rod through the block. So I’m up to five strandings. Although that last wa sn’t Chrysler’s fault.