Defining the South & Midwest - 538

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 07/12/2019 at 10:47 • Filed to: None

1

60

Found this interesting, as someone who grew up in the middle of Missouri (felt more midwest than south), and now live in Tulsa (intersection of the lower Midwest, the Southwest, and the South). Your thoughts?

The author left Arkansas out of the Midwest survey - it would’ve shown some small percentage like Kentucky, I’d guess.

Insane that some put Montana and Wyoming in the Midwest. Similarly crazy that a few respondents put some of those states in the South.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Also of note: the Census Bureau does not recognize the Southwest.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 10:51

0

In case of Kinja:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-states-are-in-the-midwest/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-states-are-in-the-south/

benn454 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 10:54

6

 The people who said IL, IN, OH, and PA are in the South must have failed American History. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > benn454 07/12/2019 at 10:58

0

Clearly.

“ The survey isolated 1,135 respondents who identified “a lot” or “some” as a Southerner and asked them which states are in the South. To get this sample, SurveyMonkey Audience polled 2,528 individuals, about half from a national sample and about half from states considered regionally South, according to the Census Bureau (Florida, Georgia, Maryland, North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Delaware, Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Texas.)“

facw > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 10:59

2

People have a funny idea about the South apparently. I’d start it at the Potomac, but I know traditionalists would argue for the Mason-Dixon line, but really PA, OH, IN, IL?

Still, Deadspin had some even more dubious takes:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Textured Soy Protein > benn454 07/12/2019 at 11:00

2

T he southern parts of IL, IN and OH most closely resemble their southern neighbor Kentucky.

benn454 > Textured Soy Protein 07/12/2019 at 11:04

0

 I've been to Kentucky. It was the same as every other state from the Appalachians to the Rockies. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > facw 07/12/2019 at 11:07

1

I’m guessing that’s like 5 people with that very bad take.

Still way too many, though.

Not including any maps in that article is a crime. 

fintail > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:07

4

I want to see the 11% of people who apparently don’t consider GA to be the south.

(looks at recent elections data)

Oh yeah

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > fintail 07/12/2019 at 11:08

1

LOL

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > fintail 07/12/2019 at 11:09

4

The real story here is how dumb a lot of our fellow citizens are. 

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:10

0

Where I go to college in Missouri feels much more Southern than where I live in Central IL (which is basically peak midwest), although I go to school near Springfield MO which isn’t far from Kansas, Oklahoma, and Arkansas

Textured Soy Protein > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:11

5

The census regions pretty much get it right in my mind, but MD, DC and DE aren’t really part of the south, even though they’re below the M ason-D ixon line.

Ash78, voting early and often > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:12

3

The South is whatever Southern Living Magazine says it is. That’s the unwritten rule!

Forget the geography of Mason & Dixon, that’s ancient history (for most, anyway). It’s cultural, culinary, linguistic, and a ton of other elements.

Maryland and WV : Desperately want to be The South, but I disagree most of the time . Just because you have a bunch of lifted pickups, Waffle Houses, and Confederate battle flags doesn’t compensate for the cultural encroachment of PA and NJ .

Virginia, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Florida, West Virginia : “The 50/50 States,” highly dependent on specific region or city.

“ Regions” really mean less today than they probably ever have, but if I started saying NYC was just like Boston, there’d be rioting. 

functionoverfashion > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:15

4

A New Englander’s perspective

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 07/12/2019 at 11:16

1

This a good take. 

For Sweden > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:16

1

Everything outside of the Acela corridor is the Midwest

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford 07/12/2019 at 11:18

1

Highway 44 does kind of feel like the dividing line between Midwest and South in Missouri.

My brother lives in the country outside of Edwardsville. Loves the area, hates the taxes. 

nermal > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:18

2

I would add a 5th “Mid-Atlantic” region that includes PA / WV / MD / VA / DE / NJ. That would fix a lot of problems. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > functionoverfashion 07/12/2019 at 11:20

1

LOL

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > For Sweden 07/12/2019 at 11:21

1

East Coast elitism FTW!

Pickup_man > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:28

1

I think a lot depends on where you live/grew up. Living in SD my whole life I’ve usually only considered my little neighboring cluster of states (SD, ND, NE, IA, MN, WY, MT ) to be “mid-west” although I know that isn’t really true. KS and MO always seemed like the south to me, and IN, MI, and OH always felt more east/north east to me. I know this is all wrong and I have no disagreements with the map, but that’s how I’ve always perceived things.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:35

0

Why do you think Montanan’s tell North Dakota jokes? There is just a huge cultural and environmental difference between the states.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Pickup_man 07/12/2019 at 11:37

1

Yeah, some of that sentiment is described in the article.

I grew up in northern Missouri, considered it the Midwest, and Ohio seemed a long way away to be part of the same region - lumped it in with Pennsylvania in my mind.

I think it’s worth differentiating the “old” Midwest and the Great Plains.

WY & MT are definitely part of the “the West” to me, but I can see how the eastern parts would feel more Great Plains/Midwest. Are there some in SD & ND who feel more Western than Midwestern?

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:39

0

That any respondent considered NM part of the South tells me they have never been here, or the in South. Aside from that, I generally feel like the term Midwest is really used to describe two very different places. Having spent some time in Western NE over the years , the industrialized Midwest of places like IL, IN, OH, MI is very different than the Midwest of KS, NE, and the Dakotas.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:41

1

Yup. A good part of Texas is more western than southern as well.

I agree - old Midwest vs. Great Plains.

Grindintosecond > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:41

2

Grew up in the m iddle of missouri.

Michigan is NOT midwest. Aparently whoever made up the census map forgot theres a thing called the NORTH! SD, ND, MN, WI, MI are in the north.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 07/12/2019 at 11:43

0

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Grindintosecond 07/12/2019 at 11:44

1

Canada Lite. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Grindintosecond 07/12/2019 at 11:47

0

Jeff City kid here - you? 

For Sweden > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:47

1

Imagine sending your kids to public school lmao

DipodomysDeserti > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:51

0

Despite it not existing, western Texas (near El Paso) needs to be in a Southwest category. Much different vibe than the rest of Texas. Also, from my time in Central Texas, it kind of has it’s own vibe. Different culture than Midwestern or Southern.

And Wyoming and Montana in the South? WTF?

Ash78, voting early and often > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:52

1

Thanks...having lived all over (CA , FL, PA, AL) and with my family scattered — TX, AZ, MD, KS — I’ve had pretty good exposure to The South and all of its “border states” over the years. I couldn’t give you an opinion on anywhere else.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > functionoverfashion 07/12/2019 at 11:55

3

Why do you insult  new England with New York?

Chuckles > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:55

1

I live in Eastern PA, about 90 minutes from New York City, so I find it amusing that people said PA was in the Midwest or the South. I suppose it’s a little different if you live in far western PA. But clearly PA is not the south.

3point8isgreat > Grindintosecond 07/12/2019 at 11:55

0

I went to school in Michigan, and I liked to point out that a better term for the region  would be “Mideast”, since they’re at least sort of close to the middle of the Eastern Time zone. And definitely not west at all.

facw > Grindintosecond 07/12/2019 at 11:56

0

The North is Canada

facw > functionoverfashion 07/12/2019 at 11:57

0

New York is not New England!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DipodomysDeserti 07/12/2019 at 11:58

0

Yeah - some of Texas, some of Oklahoma, most of New Mexico & Arizona.

Austin seems more like parts of Colorado .

Pickup_man > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 11:58

1

South Dakota is actually pretty interesting in that there is a stark contrast between the eastern and western parts of the state, both in geography, and culture. The eastern part of the state is much more farm and crop oriented with fields basically everywhere and a fairly dense population (comparatively speaking) where as the western part of the state is much more rolling plains and ranches and can be downright sparse. The East River/West River “rivalry” is a real thing here. I’d say there are definitely people in the western parts of the state that would consider themselves more “old west” than midwest. 

functionoverfashion > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 07/12/2019 at 12:02

0

Should have drawn the line to only include the Adirondack region and maybe a bit more

functionoverfashion > facw 07/12/2019 at 12:03

1

haha well when I used to drive through Vermont into NY way up near Lake George, there was very little noticeable difference except the road went to 2 lanes from 4. I’d take the Adirondacks as part of NE, but maybe bump that hastily drawn line up a little and exclude NY, even part of CT that’s basically NYC. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Pickup_man 07/12/2019 at 12:09

0

Are you from the eastern part? I could see how the people from the farming communities put themselves in the Midwest category and the people from the ranching communities put themselves in the West category. Makes perfect sense, really.

Similar split in Oklahoma east-west, Midwest-feeling vs. Southwest/Old West , with the SE part of the state with more of an Ozarks vibe. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Chuckles 07/12/2019 at 12:13

0

Clearly not . Guessing it was a handful of Ohioans lumping in the western part of the state.

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 12:21

1

Illinois absolutely sucks. All the downsides of the Midwest with none of the benefits 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford 07/12/2019 at 12:24

0

Haha - tell me how you really feel...

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 12:28

1

I’ve lived here 20 years and I’m more than ready to leave, especially with all the taxes skyrocketing this past month. Gas has gone up $0.20/gal, so downstate premium is around $3/gal. Where I go to school in Missouri? $2.70 . Minimum wage is laughable considering it’s a blue state (8.25). Cost of living is way too high for what little it gets you, relative to the states around it. Obviously cheaper than Cali, Washington, etc, but for a midwestern state it’s bad.

At least I graduate in 2 years so then I can move wherever I please

Milky > Grindintosecond 07/12/2019 at 12:30

0

Everyone in Michigan thinks its the midwest tho, don’ t be mad just because  we have beaches

DipodomysDeserti > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 12:31

1

Yeah, Austin is a lot like Denver, but Denver is nothing like the rest of Colorado. 

Pickup_man > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 12:31

1

Yep, about as far east as you can go really. I can practically see the MN border from work, and actually had a buddy who’s house was in SD, but his mailbox was on the other side of the road in MN.

The split here is really fun because we have a big ass geographical feature that splits the state. It’s almost shocking how quickly the geography splits at the river, 1 0 miles east of the river is crop land as far as the eye can see, and 1 0 miles west is nothing but rolling plains and grass.

Never been to OK, but just the satellite image shows a pretty quick transition from green to brown.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 12:34

0

Yeet everything south of the Mason Dixon line and east of the Mississippi. Washington DC can stay, as an island. Same for Disneyworld and Universal Studios in Florida, they’re now resort islands.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 12:49

1

Shouldn’t Florida be its own region?

AMC/Renauledge > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 13:03

1

The Census Bureau has it righter than the survey respondents to 538. And the Southwest doesn’t have enough people in it (unless you include California, which is 2/3rds southwest and 1/3rd northwest) to make it a separate region.

Khalbali > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/12/2019 at 16:29

1

I like how Florida is somehow less South than Georgia or Alabama.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > functionoverfashion 07/12/2019 at 20:58

1

personally I’d lop off the 203 area code from new england. sounds stupid but there is a w ei rd cultural shift south of 84.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Ash78, voting early and often 07/12/2019 at 22:19

0

what is funniest is how the hardcore “bostonians” when pressed, are originally from NY, NJ PA and moved there for college and stayed.

Clown Shoe Pilot > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/15/2019 at 08:20

1

So, from the Census Bureau map, someone living in Chicago or Gary, Indiana lives in the East North Central Midwest.

Say it aloud. Clearly this has gotten out of control.

BigBlock440 > Chuckles 07/15/2019 at 11:19

0

Maybe somebody heard Gettysburg  was in PA?

BigBlock440 > Khalbali 07/15/2019 at 11:21

0

It’s north of Cuba?

qbeezy > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 07/17/2019 at 13:24

1

Oklahoma and Texas are definitely not South. Oklahoma is in a very weird spot. After living in Tulsa for 6+ years now, and in KC, and meeting people from Texas I think I have a firm idea on what Oklahoma is.

Eastern Oklahoma, Tulsa aka Green Country, is more Midwestern. Oklahoma City is Southwestern. It’s crazy how different the the state is in just 100 miles. Texas and Oklahoma would never be southern in my books. Putting breakfast gravy on potatoes for dinner... The heathens.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > qbeezy 07/17/2019 at 14:21

1

Yeah, I think you got it pretty well pegged (even though you and I and a few others from here are probably the only people who’d call Tulsa a Midwest city).

---

This is the old South, and Texas is a long way from there. And there’s a lot of Cajuns between Houston and the deep South, even though it does extend into Louisiana.