"E90M3" (e90m3)
07/10/2019 at 08:19 • Filed to: None
2
49|
"E90M3" (e90m3)
07/10/2019 at 08:19 • Filed to: None | 2
| 49 |
I took my 328i into BMW for an oil change; yes I know I could do it myself, but at $90 it’s worth it to drop the car off and pickup it with freshly changed oil. While it was there, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! Normally, I’m not one to skimp on repairs, but I remember looking at the brakes somewhat recently and remember seeing quite a lot of friction material on the pads. Plus they wanted ~$670 for the job, so I declined. They also said the sensors were telling them that the brakes needed to be replaced. I looked at my car when I got it back and they were either lying to me, or they saw something I didn’t.
This is what my front drivers side brake pad looks like. Looks like there is still a decent amount of friction material on there.
The rotors are a bit worn, but the y specifically said the pads were worn out, not the rotors. Additionally , my car is in agreement that we’re good for a while.
For reference, this is what was on my bill:
Yeah, I’m going to have to disagree with that. Last time they told me something was wrong, they were correct. The gaskets they told me were leaking were actually leaking bad enough I could smell oil burning. I got that rectified and now my car no longer burns oil. Anyways, looks like I won’t be doing brakes anytime soon. I am still planning on doing my due diligence and looking at the inner brake pad.
Spanfeller is a twat
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 08:24 |
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They look healthy. Dealers have unusual standards
Ash78, voting early and often
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 08:25 |
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Unless the inner pad are worn and you can’t see them, I’m gonna say this is just a shop being overly ambitious. My friend’s wife had an X3 and every time she went in for anything, the shop gave her a $3,000 list of “recommended or upcoming service” but it was like the next 5 years’ worth of stuff.
I hate that most people fall for every recommendation. And I also hate that brake jobs on fancy cars cost so much, even though the parts and labor are very
nearly the same on every single car.
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E90M3
> Spanfeller is a twat
07/10/2019 at 08:26 |
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Was worried I wasn’t going to be able to drive it for a little, but I think you’re right they look pretty healthy to me. Going to try and measure the rotors with a micrometer in a bit.
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E90M3
> Ash78, voting early and often
07/10/2019 at 08:29 |
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It seems like they’re being overly ambitious. Usually they don’t tell me I need anything, so this came as a bit of a surprise.
It would be nice if the parts weren’t marked up so much.
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Spanfeller is a twat
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 08:29 |
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From the photos, the lip of the rotor looks OK too... I can’t imagine why they’d recommend a brake job. Maybe also check the pads... they seem to have... what? Like 6-5mm... thats still good, but check for uneven wear.
Thomas Donohue
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 08:32 |
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I’m gonna guess someone looked at your info screen and proactively translated it to this:
MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 08:38 |
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Are the inner pads the same though? The pads on the piston side of the caliper can get worn quicker than the outside
CalzoneGolem
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 08:39 |
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I’m not a BMW mechanic but it looks like you’ve got plenty of friction material left and those rotors look like they are wearing well and consistent .
FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 08:43 |
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I’ve had this happen too. I assume shops trybit because a lot of people hear that their brakes might be worn out and just give in because it’s a safety item. Also brakes last a lot longer these days. I’d guess many people hear they need brakes at something like 30- 50k and believe it because that was a typical interval for some vehicles back in the 80’s-90’s when they still kept up on how long car parts should last.
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E90M3
> MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s
07/10/2019 at 08:48 |
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Going to check it out, but I believe the wear sensor is actually on that side alone. Since the car says we’re good, I’m going to assume that it’s good as well.
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E90M3
> Spanfeller is a twat
07/10/2019 at 08:49 |
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Measured the rotors, and looks like we’re good. Pads to appear to have 5-6 mm left.
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E90M3
> FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
07/10/2019 at 08:51 |
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I have put 40k on the car, but the first 30k were pretty much just highway miles. I explicitly asked how much friction was left, and they told me none was left.
functionoverfashion
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 09:15 |
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I do wonder if the inner pad is more worn. But from the pictures you showed it doesn’t look bad at all, not to mention, the sensor is not triggered or else you’d see it on the dash, right? Why would they say that when you can clearly see for yourself that it’s not true, even if you didn’t look at the actual brakes? Ugh.
The dealer where we took my wife’s Volvo (she had it from new and wanted it serviced there) told us it needed brakes all around for about $1,100, from 7 0,000 miles right up until we sold it with over 140,000, still on the original factory pads and rotors. Yes, they were worn, but not beyond safe margins by any means. She drove the car 120 miles on the highway about 4 times a week and it was a manual, so she was really quite easy on the brakes. I’m sure that’s unusual, but still. We replaced two wheel bearings over that same period haha.
Wacko
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 09:16 |
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Today I’m changing the rear disks, pads and slider pins on my pathfinder.
I replaced them last summer but not the pins and my pads stuck and used to bare metal on our way home from our summer vacation.
Disks don’t stay shiny like yours overhere.
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E90M3
> functionoverfashion
07/10/2019 at 09:24 |
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I believe the sensor is only on the interior pads, so I’m assuming they’re good as well. Probably going to go over to a friends house on Monday and take a wheel off and see how the other side looks.
I measured the rotors with a micrometer and then looked up the minimum thickness for the rotor and it’s well above it. It’s a bit annoying they told me I needed brakes. Maybe if there were less than 3 mm on the pads, but looks like I’ve got 5-6mm left. They told me there was none left.
Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 09:44 |
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The Honda dealer recently did this to my mother. The pads were nearly brand new.
Discerning
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 09:44 |
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“yes I know I could do it myself, but at $90 it’s worth it to drop the car off and pickup it with freshly changed oil”
I did the first two oil changes on my 18 F150, but I don’t think I’m going to going forward. The cost differential is minimal, but I’m not sure it’s worth my time or effort.
Fo rd really didn’t help things though. The plug and filter are both mounted completely horizontal instead of vertical and both times I’ve been unable to avoid splashing oil on myself or the ground. I use a huge pan but with moderate success only.
Oh, and it takes 8.8 quarts. Wtf, Ford? Why? Taking out a measuring cup to do my oil is annoying.
Might just pay the extra 30 to 40 bucks vs. Diy
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functionoverfashion
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 09:47 |
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Yeah, that would erode my trust a bit. Although you know your car well enough and can always decline. But words have meanings, and “none” is not the same as “some.” I’d be tempted to call them on it with measurements. But that probably wouldn’t be productive.
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E90M3
> functionoverfashion
07/10/2019 at 09:49 |
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I took my M3 to a third party shop one time, they told me I was good and gave me the actual measurements .
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E90M3
> Discerning
07/10/2019 at 09:59 |
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Changing the oil in my 97 Explorer was a pain in the ass because the oil would come out and hit a suspension competent and go everywhere. I was still on my parents dime, so it was easier and cheaper for my dad to just make me do it. I actually used to do all the cars we had.
Now, since I’ve got a real job and I don’t have a place to do it. It’s easier to just pay someone to change it. I could save some money if I did it myself, but it’s really not worth it.
DipodomysDeserti
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 10:05 |
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Whenever I took my wife’s BMW into the dealer, they would do a full inspection and give me the report. They would actually measure the brake pads so I knew exactly how much pad I had left. I think 3mm is the minimum thickness spec for BMW, which in my experience will not trip the brake pad sensor. Minimum rotor thickness is 18.4 mm (front) and 22.4 mm (rear).
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E90M3
> DipodomysDeserti
07/10/2019 at 10:10 |
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There’s more than 3 mm on the pads, and I measured the rotor with a micrometer and it gave me 21.794 mm. That third decimal point is key. I asked for the measurements yesterday and they said there was no friction material left.
RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 10:11 |
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E90M3 to dealer:
AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 10:11 |
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Yeah they’re not gone. But the pads looks about 4mm to me, with maybe almost a 1mm lip on the rotor. Most pad wear sensors trip at 3mm, which are mounted on the inside pad on sliding calipers. Then consider that the insides often wear a bit faster, you might be real close to that sensor giving you a warning, like one or two spirited drives close.
What did you measure the rotors at? W hat is the minimum wear spec? What’s the minimum service spec? If there is no minimum service spec, then just assume it’s about 1mm above minimum wear. You don’t want the rotors too go under minimum wear halfway through a set of new pads.
They weren’t wrong to quote you brakes. Even if all the pads are exactly the same. Which they almost certainly aren’t. They were wrong in how they presented it to you. But that’s probably a communication issue between the tech and the service advisor. Many service advisors are not particularly bright, and many are a bit heavy handed in how they approach clients.
I bet their quote includes rotors. Which seems a pretty normal price for OE parts and labor on a German car.
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E90M3
> AMGtech - now with more recalls!
07/10/2019 at 10:17 |
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Rotors measured at 21.794 mm which is more than 3 mm above the minimum spec. The car says we’ve got 23k before we need pads, and since they told me there was zero friction material left, I’m more inclined to believe the car. I’m going to inspect it then drive until the sensor goes off. At that point, It’ll get new pads and rotors. Even if the rotors would still be serviceable, they’re cheap enough to just replace.
The price wasn’t surprising, just not something I was willing to pay for something that I wasn’t sure if I needed to address or not. The quote did include new rotors.
Jayhawk Jake
> Discerning
07/10/2019 at 10:17 |
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I’ve never changed oil myself. At ~$50 to have someone else take care of it I don’t see how it’s w orth the effort. Oil and a filter is like $30 and then I’d have to deal with disposal, not to mention the work of actually getting under the car and draining the oil.
I’ll never understand why this is such a ‘gatekeeping’ point of car enthusiasm.
wafflesnfalafel
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 10:27 |
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I s it a coincidence that the estimate was $666? :)
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AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 10:33 |
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I’m feeling pretty skeptical about your minimum spec. I don’t know of any German front rotors that thin. And wear range from new is usually only about 3mm. Those clearly aren’t new. A quick Google suggested your minimum might be 22.4mm. I’m not saying you’re wrong, just that you might want to double-check. And note that the pelican parts DIY page has the front and rear specs switched. Rear is never larger than front.
As for the car saying you have 23k left... It doesn’t actively measure. It has a wear limit sensor that actually operates more like a switch. Sensor touches rotor, you get warning. Sensor doesn’t touch, no warning. That distance is a calculation based on expected usage. If you drive harder than the average lease jumper, or if wear is uneven, or if the last guy screwed something up in the reset process; then that distance can’t be accurate. New pads come new at 10-12mm generally. 23k left at 4mm sounds quite high, unless it's calculating from brand new all the way to metal on metal.
Definitely inspect it further yourself. My guess is that you have about a month before the sensor trips. Which does not mean they need to be replaced right that minute, but obviously if you keep going at that point you will need to be hyper vigilant about the wear rate.
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DipodomysDeserti
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 10:35 |
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You’re gtg. Pretty sketchy on their part.
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E90M3
> AMGtech - now with more recalls!
07/10/2019 at 10:39 |
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According to pelican parts, it’s 22.4 for the rear. I didn’t find anything to refute that claim that it’s 18.4 mm in a quick search.
I know it’s just an sensor that closes the circuit when it gets to the sensor. I’m just going to drive until that happens. When that does happen I’ll replace everything. I’m curious how much longer I’ve got. I’m about to see if I can get my caliper in there and measure the pads.
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AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 10:48 |
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It’s switched. The rear is never bigger. Pelican even confirms that in the comments. The rotors might be stamped with the minimum also.
Pad wear measurement tools are about $2 at any parts store. But you can't measure the insides with the wheels on.
Tripper
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 12:28 |
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I can always feel when I need brakes. Those pads look ok to me (a nobody) but the rotors look like they’ve got a lil lip. I believe that is bad, again said by someone who really doesn’t know.
I always do pads and rotors all the way around and flush the fluid as soon as I don’t like the pedal feel. I also do that in my driveway so slightly cheaper.
Y you no inde? None around?
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E90M3
> Tripper
07/10/2019 at 13:06 |
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I’m not sure on the lip, they are slightly out of spec though on thickness. Wasn’t going to do them for a while, but I’ll probably do them within a month or two.
Haven’t found an indy near me I’d take either car to.
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Tripper
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 13:24 |
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That’s a bummer. A bad inde is far worse than being gouged by the dealer. Do they not like them new fangl ed foreign cars down there? :)
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E90M3
> Tripper
07/10/2019 at 13:37 |
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With BMW here, there should be a good place. I also feel like some of the shops are too far from me or aren’t open at convenient hours.
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merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 13:56 |
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Yeah. Those pads are still good. The rotors are getting torn up a bit, but that happens. My S8 brakes had lips a bit deeper than yours. I normally replace pads and rotors at the same time anyway so a little lip is no concern.
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Tripper
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 13:57 |
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Time is definitely what you sacrifice by using an inde. I drop my cars off the night before, they usually promise a day or two. It’s usually a week or more. Not ideal if it’s your only car.
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merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
> AMGtech - now with more recalls!
07/10/2019 at 14:00 |
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Nah, order parts when the sensor trips, then replace when you hear the grinding ;). I did drive at least two months on mine with the sensors tripped. When I did finally replace them, they were less than a mil from the backing plate. I definitely stretched them as far as I could. I don’t recommend that.
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merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
> Discerning
07/10/2019 at 14:04 |
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Horizontal oil filters are the devils work. My Dakota has one that’s almost horizontal and it’s impossible to get out without dumping a bunch of oil out.
After doing our Pacifica and my S8 with cartridge filters and an extractor, anything other than that seems like lazy engineering. The extractor makes it super clean too, don’t even have to get under the cars.
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merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 14:06 |
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Your time is worth something. If you don’t enjoy doing it, then no real reason to. We’ve even stopped doing oil changes at our volunteer shop, as people can go to the dealer for the nearly the same price we have in materials. It’s just not worth it for us to do it anymore.
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Discerning
> merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
07/10/2019 at 14:09 |
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Add in a skid plate that can’t be quickly removed and it just plain sucks.
They added a plastic pan and channel that is supposed to direct the oil to an single drain point after removing the filter.
But even after letting the plug drain for a long time, some of the oil still manages to slosh backwards and into the skid plate.
Nea to , Ford. Ugh
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AMGtech - now with more recalls!
> merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
07/10/2019 at 14:26 |
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Yeah! Just listen for grinding. It worked for boomers on their Edsels and DeSotos!
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merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
> Discerning
07/10/2019 at 14:31 |
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Yikes. That’s a shitty deal. You would think they could engineer that out of the design. They also don’t make them for the DIY mechanic. But GM, FCA and VAG seem to have it figured out by now.
Captain of the Enterprise
> Discerning
07/10/2019 at 20:41 |
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What engine do you have? 8.8 quarts seems excessive.
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Discerning
> Captain of the Enterprise
07/10/2019 at 20:42 |
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5.0 coyote in a 2018 F150
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Captain of the Enterprise
> Discerning
07/10/2019 at 20:50 |
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Shit I want one of those used in the future but don’t like the idea of oil changes that expensive.
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Discerning
> Captain of the Enterprise
07/10/2019 at 21:01 |
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You think that's bad? The mustang has a deeper pan for some reason and takes 10 quarts of oil for 2018! Maybe it's to withstand high G turns.
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FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
> E90M3
07/10/2019 at 21:19 |
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Assholes
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Captain of the Enterprise
> Discerning
07/10/2019 at 23:10 |
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Wow