Help my terrible welds

"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich) 07/10/2019 at 00:15 • Filed to: welding

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Like the photo and the title says, I need some help figuring this one out.

A little while back I finally bought a welder - the same Hobart Handler 140 that I had previously borrowed from a cousin. Since I had a welder, I figured a good starter project would be to make a welding cart. But even before doing that, I figured I’d better refresh myself on how to weld (properly, in theory).

For reasons I don’t understand, the welds are looking... terrible. There’s a white dust over everything, and it’s balling up and splattering - really badly. The first part of the weld seems to start really cold, and seems to sit on the surface. The wire seems to be vaporizing before it gets to the weld pool (not sure if it’s supposed to be doing that or not).

I’ve checked the following:

- The test piece of metal I was practicing on was approximately 1/8th of an inch thick. According to the welder settings in the door, that should be on voltage setting 4, wire speed 40, so I’ve set it as such. (I’ve tried playing around a bit with it, but it’s hard to tell what it does, as the welds all seem pretty terrible).
- Wire size is 0.030". As near as I can figure, it’s solid core (it doesn’t specifically say it’s solid core, but I figure it would have said if it was flux core. I’ll snap a photo of it next time I’m in the garage). The spool of wire is fairly close to empty, so I plan on picking up a different spool. The wire on there looks clean and bright (doesn’t appear rusty or otherwise contaminated).- Polarity is set properly for solid wire.
- Gas is 75% argon, 25% CO2. Flow level is set to ~15 CFH. I can hear it hiss when I pull the trigger. The gas nozzle seems clear in the torch. The tip seems like it has some wear, so I’ll likely replace it soon.
- Wire tension seems okay. I’ve got the (hose?) in a long curve, and it seems to be feeding the wire properly.
- I’m trying to keep stickout to <1/2". Basically as close as it seems reasonable, while still being able to see the puddle.
- Torch angle is near 90%. I’ve tried angling a bit, but it doesn’t seem to make too much difference.
- Ground clamp connection seems clean.  The test piece that I was playing around with was fairly clean.  (I gave it a quick sanding with some 80 grit sandpaper).  There doesn’t appear to be any issues starting the arc.

It seems to be making roughly the right sound - “like frying bacon”, but it’s splattering everywhere, and makes for a heck of a mess and a terrible weld.

Any guesses on what atrocity I’m committing here? Am I accidentally running flux core wire with gas, or something terrible like that? I do plan on picking up some replacement tips and some fresh wire, but as far as what I’ve done so far, it’d be nice to know what I’m doing wrong.

lone_liberal > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 00:37

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I know nothing but I’ve been looking at the same unit and watching reviews and one mentioned that you had to make sure the wiring was set up for gas welding  as opposed to the flux core wire and how he got crappy welds until he swapped things around.

Just Jeepin' > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 00:38

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Searching for the white powder symptom gave me this, which sounds scary.

https://www.bakersgas.com/weldmyworld/2011/12/03/side-effects-welding-galvanized-steel/

(Disclaimer: I’ve never been closer than 10 feet to a welder.)

Spanfeller is a twat > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 00:47

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Are those bubbles easily removeable?

Alls I know from my shop class is that some types of weld need a coating to prevent from thermal shock... So you weld with all that gunk atop, and then once it cools down you remove it with a pick and wire brush.

Maybe you’re going in too hot, but your slugs look OK, so it’s not a thing of staying too long in the same place.

Pixel > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 00:53

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My first guess would be surface contamination (or possibly gal vanizing as mentioned elsewhere). I would either run a grinder/flap disc over the surface, or try on another piece of metal before messing with any additional settings .

The actual welds look ok, if a tiny bit c old.

Echo51 > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 04:03

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Reminds me of the few times my dad welded galvanized steel as other people are slightly onto already, awful spatter and discoloration. Try some clean mild steel instead and it should be much better.
The pieces in the background don’t excactly look galvanized tho.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 05:12

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That looks like flux core under gas...

random001 > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 06:23

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I’m with token_liberal on this one.  That looks exactly like you’re using flux wire when trying to gas weld.  If you are using the wire that was included with the Hobart, it’s almost definitely flux core.  That looks like the slag I used to get when I was using up the flux wire practicing, and the white powder is probably vaporized flux.

Sovande > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 07:30

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I have that same welder and it works very well when set up properly. I have never used gas with it, but with flux core I get surprisingly good results. Make sure that the polarity of the gun and ground are not reversed at the welder itself. It comes in the box set up for flux core so in order to use it with solid wire and gas you need to reverse the cables inside the box at the wire feed. The manual makes only passing reference to this, as I recall.

I have found that the machine does not like dirty metal, at all. The pieces above need to have the mill scale cleaned up before you will get nice, clean welds. I think a flap disk on a grinder is the easiest, but you can also use a wire wheel on a drill.

The other thing I would suggest is a really nice helmet. I have an Esab Sentinel and it is ridiculous how nice it is and how well you can see while using it. It takes all the guess work out as you can actually see what you are doing and it’s not tinted green - it’s true colors. Finally, I use Blue Demon flux core wire and it is, for whatever reason, much better than any other wire I have used. Less spatter, less dust and overall nicer welds.

Good luck!

Here is a shelf and hot dog cooking bu mble bee I made last week.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 07:32

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Honestly, it looks like flux-cored wire.

If you’re using flux-cored wire and trying to weld with gas, this will be the result.

If you can’t find it labeled anywhere, try turning the gas off and laying a bead. 

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/10/2019 at 08:35

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I’m thinking I might do that or pick up some different solid core w ire today and try that.

MonkeePuzzle > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 09:17

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pick your worst weld, that’s my sort of welding, so I’m no help. I do know it’s like painting though, a lot of success is found in the prep and setup, and less in the skill itself (although that too has its part).

I’m just a hot gluer, and huge glob solderer at heart. 

Pickup_man > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 09:55

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+1 for looks like flux core. A lot of my early welds with flux core were very similar, little penetration and lots of spatter. Clean metal and a bit of practice have improved things greatly. If you’re already set up for gas though I’d say get some wire that you are sure is solid core and give it another go. I suspect it will look much better.   

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Spanfeller is a twat 07/10/2019 at 10:18

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That’s generally certain rod types with stick welding. Solid wire mig shouldn't do that.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 12:18

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Your welds are so bad I saw them and immediately assumed it was one of Borsuq’s crap repair job posts.

No t that I could  do any better.

Robi > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 13:07

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You have flux core wire there. Shut off the gas. And change the polarity. And should start to work much better. Even with solid wire you will be limited on metal thickness to weld. Flux core will allow you to weld thicker material. And practice uphand welding. Will get much better penetration in your welds.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Pickup_man 07/10/2019 at 14:29

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You are 100% correct. I checked this morning and it was flux core wire. I picked up some solid wire during my lunch break, and hope to try it out tonight.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 07/10/2019 at 14:31

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Ha ha! No offense taken!

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/10/2019 at 14:32

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You were totally right. I checked this morning and it was flux core all along.

For Sweden > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 15:55

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Stop welding by hand

Stir weld like a boss

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 16:00

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There’s your issue!

Just weld with the gas off. You’ll have to brush the slag off, but it’ll give you nice welds until you get proper wire.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/10/2019 at 16:14

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I’d have to swap the polarity as well.

I picked some solid wire up during my lunch break. Hoping to try it tonight.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 16:18

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Can’t be that hard to change polarity.

I prefer welding with gas, but most of my welding is done with my 110 flux-core Lincoln welder, I love how easy it is to dial in and I can get really good penetration even on thick steel.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 07/10/2019 at 16:39

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No, it’s pretty easy, but I like the idea of clean welds with less splatter, and I’ve already got the gas.

When I built brackets for my dining room table legs, it was mostly flux core.

MM54 > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/10/2019 at 18:05

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Sounds like you’ve figured out that you’re running flux core wire as if it were solid. Once you get the solid core wire installed, make sure the polarity is the right way ‘round (it should have a diagram inside near the feed wheels).

BaconSandwich is tasty. > MM54 07/10/2019 at 19:02

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Yeah.  That’s what had me puzzled - I thought I had the polarity set correctly - and I did - for solid wire, but had flux core wire loaded in it.  I picked up some solid wire during my lunch break, and am hoping to try it out tonight.

Mee > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/11/2019 at 16:16

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75 25 isn’t bad, I use 88 12 ( meant to spray easier). Once you get regular wire (not that flux) and the problem still persist. Grind of the mill off your metal . Sucks welding it to steel. Galvanized still looks white too with little cotton looking stuff coming off of it, while welding . Do not breath it lol. But that's not it tho

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Mee 07/11/2019 at 19:14

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Check out my other post from last night. Things have improved!

. . > BaconSandwich is tasty. 07/12/2019 at 01:25

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Don't listen to him, your welds are beautiful. :D

BaconSandwich is tasty. > . . 07/12/2019 at 12:32

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Ha ha ha!