Maybe Enough Is Enough

"Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire" (arch-duke-maxyenko)
06/03/2019 at 11:46 • Filed to: None

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DISCUSSION (47)

For Sweden > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
06/03/2019 at 11:54

Does our lust for a relatively obscure race on a small island necessitate the sacrifice of more lives?

No.

ttyymmnn > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
06/03/2019 at 11:57

More than 270 riders have died since 1907. That’s about 2.4 deaths per year, and five riders died in 2016 alone. T he worst year was 1970 with six deaths. That’s one for each day of the race . It’s always said, “They knew what they were getting into, and they died doing what they loved to do.” Sure, but if you could ask them, they’d probably say that they’d rather be alive.

Sovande > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 12:01

I think you would have to ask the folks racing. It’s not like they are putting an end to mountain climbing after a bunch of folks died on Everest.

For Sweden > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 12:06

You can bet that Nepal will put more safeguards for climbing Everest, such as reducing permits. The TT shows little to no interest to making the course safer.

DipodomysDeserti > ttyymmnn
06/03/2019 at 12:07

“ Sure, but if you could ask them, they’d probably say that they’d rather be alive.”

I wouldn’t be so quick to speak for guys you have nothing in common with.

DipodomysDeserti > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 12:10

Never mind the fact that we’ve lost actual mountain climbers this year.

RallyWrench > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 12:10

Those guys will race whether there are spectators or not.

Sovande > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 12:15

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I don’t agree with your assessment. Neith er does Time Magazine.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 12:17

I'm not sure there's much you can do to make the TT course safer outside of moving the race to a dedicated track instead. The riders know that if they have an accident while competing in the TT there is a decent chance that it will be their last. As long as riders are still willing to accept that risk there is no drive to overhaul the event in the name of safety.

Sovande > DipodomysDeserti
06/03/2019 at 12:17

The point is that people want to conquer things that others can’t. Dive the deepest, fly the highest, go the fastest. Someone dying while attempting those things isn’t a deterrent, it’s affirmation that the task is difficult and dangerous and it makes the reward all the more sweet as a result.

nermal > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
06/03/2019 at 12:22

Relevant:

For Sweden > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 12:25

Time is just T he Economist for idiots

For Sweden > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
06/03/2019 at 12:26

moving the race to a dedicated track instead.

That is one good idea

Sovande > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 12:29

That’s cool, but in this case they are merely the conduit for the information.

Sovande > ttyymmnn
06/03/2019 at 12:31

Do you think they didn’t know that going 170mph through a tiny town was a dangerous activity? 270 people thought that the risk was worth the reward.

DipodomysDeserti > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 12:32

If that’s your view I suggest you don’t race.

As far as deciding for others what an acceptable level of risk is for them...good luck with that.

ttyymmnn > DipodomysDeserti
06/03/2019 at 12:34

Fair enough.

Cash Rewards > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 12:34

Or, 270 people foolishly thought it wouldn't happen to them. Human brains are notoriously bad at risk

For Sweden > DipodomysDeserti
06/03/2019 at 12:34

Deciding an acceptable risk for others is literally my job.

ttyymmnn > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 12:35

I’m not advocating that they ban the race.

Sovande > Cash Rewards
06/03/2019 at 12:36

7.5 billion people thinks it’s a bad idea.

DipodomysDeserti > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 12:42

Yes, move a road race to a track. You guys are geniuses.

To make it even safer we could make them drive cars , rather than motorcycles.

We can’t have people out there doing stuff we’re afraid of. We need to get these guys in some cubicles so they can die of heart disease like the rest of us.

For Sweden > DipodomysDeserti
06/03/2019 at 12:42

Hundreds of moto races occur each year without killing people.

DipodomysDeserti > Cash Rewards
06/03/2019 at 12:48

That’s pretty insulting to the riders. These guys know what they’re doing and are fully aware of the consequences if they screw up.

DipodomysDeserti > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 13:02

That explains it, I guess.

In your professional opinion, should I ride my motorcycle or Jeep to work today?

Also, my kid wants a skateboard. Yay or nay?

I need help from a state sanctioned professional.

DipodomysDeserti > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 13:29

That explains it, I guess.

In your professional opinion, should I ride my motorcycle or Jeep to work today?

Also, my kid wants a skateboard. Yay or nay?

I need help from a state sanctioned professional.

DipodomysDeserti > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 13:29

That explains it, I guess.

In your professional opinion, should I ride my motorcycle or Jeep to work today?

Also, my kid wants a skateboard. Yay or nay?

I need help from a state sanctioned professional.

DipodomysDeserti > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 13:30

Road racing is a whole other animal . There were two deaths last year in the Irish Road Racing series.

Sovande > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 13:34

What is your job, if you don’t mind me asking? Deciding an acceptable risk for someone else seems like some weird Nanny state job. How about we let people decide for themselves what (legal) risks they find to be acceptable?

For Sweden > DipodomysDeserti
06/03/2019 at 13:38

If you complete a risk assessment and mitigate the hazards, yes.

The TT does neither.

For Sweden > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 13:38

I work in aviation safety. Pilots keeping wanting to fly on no sleep and not follow checklists.

Cash Rewards > DipodomysDeserti
06/03/2019 at 13:40

How you know that? You talk to them? There's decades of research and literature documenting how humans do not properly evaluate risk

Cash Rewards > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 13:41

Eh, it's mostly irrelevant in that 7.5 billion people don't have the skills to make it even an option.

DipodomysDeserti > Cash Rewards
06/03/2019 at 14:27

These guys aren’t mutes. There’s plenty of documentaries out there picking their brains. “Road” is a pretty good one.

DipodomysDeserti > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 14:32

Yeah, no mitigation of risk at all in motorcycle racing...

Kinja'd!!!

My ride to work would probably be a lot safer if I had marshals closing off the roads I was on.

Cash Rewards > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 14:36

There are plenty of jobs like that, that help keep society functioning, without being a nanny state. Someone had to decide how fast a speed limit is, when to recall a faulty product, what medicine is safe. We could build safer cars, but cost and fuel consumption. There's a decided level of risk in everything

For Sweden > DipodomysDeserti
06/03/2019 at 15:27

When people regularly die, the mitigation is insufficient.

Sovande > Cash Rewards
06/03/2019 at 15:40

That's all true, but it doesn't answer the question. Why can't a guy decide to see how fast he can go in a sanctioned event? Pretending that he didn't know the risks of crashing at an incredible rate of speed is silly.

Sovande > Cash Rewards
06/03/2019 at 15:42

270 of the people who competed in the TT didn't have the skills either.

Cash Rewards > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 15:52

Its not that he didn’t know the risk. You’re right, that’s silly. But when it comes to the outcome, when it’s catastrophic (death), our brains are really good at saying “yes, but that won’t happen to me”.

Its like how people are afraid of flying, even though the measurable risk is nearly nothing, based on passengers and miles travelled daily. Our brains are just real bad at this stuff.

Svend > Cash Rewards
06/03/2019 at 15:54

Look at the likes of Guy Martin.

He’s done the TT several times, he’s come off a few times and once nearly died. He was taken to hospital, two-three weeks later after several operations, he was back at work, on his motorbike soon after and thinking about the next TT as well as doing a speed trial in a modified Ford Transit Custom, etc...

It's a dangerous sport but they signed up for it knowing all too well what would happen.

Cash Rewards > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 15:56

And I’m not saying he can or cannot decide that. To be honest, I don’t know how I feel. This being on a public street makes me a little less thrilled. Would my tax dollars be paying to haul his corpse off to the morgue, paying for EMTs on site? This is starting to feel like a blood sport.

Closed private course , go be an idiot all you want.

Cash Rewards > For Sweden
06/03/2019 at 15:57

This exactly. Frame this shit, put it on a wall.

Cash Rewards > Svend
06/03/2019 at 16:00

I'll agree to that. That guy understands the risks pretty well, I think

Sovande > Cash Rewards
06/03/2019 at 17:58

It’s a race course on the days that the race is happening. It’s the same as racing in Monaco or on a rally course through a town.

Cash Rewards > Sovande
06/03/2019 at 18:14

Thats a valid point.

I just checked, and only one person has died in the history of f1 at Monaco. Yeah, motorcycles.are inherently more dangerous, but still. One ever, versus one yearly

oldmxer > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
06/03/2019 at 20:47

it’ll never happen to me mentality