Oppo Question: Manual drivers, what are your shifting/driving habits (With long explanations)

"VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely" (vajazzlemcdildertits) 04/30/2019 at 15:41 • Filed to: oppo feedback, one handed, manual

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Edit: Thanks for all the feedback Oppo, in agreement and dissent. I genuinely appreciate all of it. 

A recent comment I made on front page seemed to have sparked the irritation of several people when I stated that having a manual prevents me from fiddling with my phone too often - which it does. But I shift my manual like an auto would shift, I upshift often for economy and downshift often for passing or acceleration. I have a 7 speed. I’m up and down the rungs all fucking day in all manner of traffic. Last I checked, that still takes two hands - I’d spill a coffee doing that and I’d rather not risk it.

So I wanted to do some research, in case I in fact am completely off base / wrong / not a real stick driver.

Apparently that is not how it is done in other necks of other woods, based on the rather shitty responses I got.
Note: I’m calling them shitty because the responses weren’t particularly well thought out, not because they were fundamentally wrong. On some level, you can mess with a phone or drink a juice while sticking. On very few occasions I have done that before - but I’m focused on driving! I hate doing it and it’s rare for me. 9 and 3, both hands, both feet, both eyes. That’s how I drive 99% of the time.

Apparently it’s really fucking commonplace for others so let me detail you a small example drive on my end - and let me know if my situation is not that common.
Example: The drive to Costco (about 15 min)

The drive out of my neighborhood is uneventful as there is very little traffic. I shift 1-2 and pootle my way out at 20 mph. But kids play in this area and I am unlucky so 0 focus away from the windshield! Had one kid literally cross the street in front of my on a scooter with ZERO advance notice.

I take a left onto a 45 mph street. Traffic likes to come in spurts to make lefts difficult, so I stop and wait, take the left, and then I lay on the throttle a bit, going 1-2-4-6-7 to about 50 mph. It takes about 5 seconds.

It’s a 2 lane street (each way.) Blocks in my Phoenix suburb are about a mile long. The next light is about a half mile away. Someone is doing 40 mph in both lanes. I slow from 50 to 40 and that’s too low for 7, so I go into 6. I don’t tailgate.

We approach the first light which is red for us. Everyone slows, and I coast a bit, apply brake, downshift from 6 to 4, 2, and then clutch to neutral and approach the back of the car in front. I have a desire to change from Amazon Music playlist to my Youtube playlist, but that requires a few button presses. As I try to make the changes, the light turns green. This happens to me often. I cancel the change, clutch into first, ready to move forward when the cars in front moves forward. Eventually, when the 2 cars out of the 4 in front of me figure out the light is green we move forward.

I stay in 1 for a bit while I figure out how fast the cars in front are going to accelerate, then I transition to 2-3-4-5-6. The cars in front are accelerating slightly slower than anticipated, so I go back down to 5 at 35. I’m in the right hand lane as I *want* to do the left-lane-is-for-passing policy and that the left laner is being a cock block on purpose, but that’s a mistake on my end, the right laner is now slowing to turn right onto a branch street. 6-4-2-1, as the right laner goes to a crawl to turn right.

After the right laner turns, I move back through 2-3-4-7 to get back up to 50. I’m slowly closing in on the next light which just turned green, but the cars are taking their sweet time starting up through the intersection. To avoid tailgating them, I brake, clutch in, and feel for 7-6-4, and change lanes to the left as after the intersection a left turn is coming up.

The following intersection (planned left turn) is completely clogged with cars. I stop probably about 100 yards from the actual intersection, and am still in the left lane since the dedicated left turn lane doesn’t start for about another 20 yards in front of it. The next 5-6 minutes are me inching forward in 1, clutch in/little throttle, but since the road curves up until the intersection one hand is on the wheel and one hand is on the shifter in case we stop and I have to go back to neutral. I don’t leave my clutch pedal in during stopping so I don’t prematurely wear out my throwout bearing.

I get to the intersection and go back to neutral. I want to attempt to change playlists again but the light turns green 10 seconds later because it took so long to get to the intersection in the first place, I cancel the change, gear into first, turn left and accelerate as I am first in line, going 1-2-3. The road curves slightly, I hit 50, 4-5-7.

300 yards later I have one more left to get into the Costco parking lot. There are about 6 cars waiting to turn left even though there are two entrances, so I drive by the first one with the 6-queue and brake, 7-5-3, turn left about 100 yards later to clear traffic, left lane and turn left at 25 mph. Brake as I hit the ramp into the lot as my car likes to scrape the front splitter, enter the lot at 5 mph. Downshift to first as 2 is nearly as tall as first.

10 mph is easy enough at 1st gear, it looks like the parking lot is not that active right now, so I upshift to 3 and push up to 20, and move to back of the lot to go park where nobody will ever park next to me. (I’m extremely paranoid of door dingers.) takes about 45 seconds winding around the lot lanes and dodging neglected carts.

I find a spot, turn in, brake, clutch in, 3 to neutral, stop, e-brake on, shut the engine off, and if necessary put it back in 1. (Sometimes I do this, sometimes I don’t - AZ is extremely flat most of the time and isn’t always needed.)

DONE! Happy shopping at Costco. The return trip is mostly the same thing in reverse, but after start up I change playlists before going in gear and pulling out since obviously traffic won’t let me.

That’s one trip. That’s tons of thinking for negligent drivers, over-slow drivers, bad surprises, quick actions, and changes to plan.

This entire time, I couldn’t even manage to change the music playlist I was listening to, I spent the entire time managing the car, the traffic, and my navigated path.

So, now’s your chance Oppo - where in this trip, as a driver that’s clearly better than me, were you going to:

1. mess with your phone (and for what reason?)

2. drink a drink

3. Do anything else in the cabin not related to driving?

I seriously want to know. Show me the godly ways that you can fuck around in your car without paying attention to the road without lane weaving, tailgating, getting too close, dealing with surprises, and being in the right gear.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:44

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7 > Sensible

ttyymmnn > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:45

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As somebody who drove a manual for many years (not lately, sadly) I can assure that it is very much possible to drive a stick with one hand. Not easy, it takes practice, but it is quite possible.

As for shifting, I never really thought about it. I didn’t look at the tach. I listened to the engine and shifted appropriately. I think later in life I downshifted less, usually reserving it for corners where I didn’t need to stop. Coming to a light? Neutral coast.

Seems to me that if you aren’t shredding your clutch or transmission, what you are doing is just fine. You do you.

Echo51 > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:46

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Most cars you can move the shifter by just smushing your hand on top of it, i.e. while still holding your phone in it. Also steer with your knee and you have left hand free for whatever dicking around you want.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Echo51 04/30/2019 at 15:48

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Why would you ever want to steer with your knee? My relative does that and she’s been in 3 at-fault accidents in the last 2 years.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 04/30/2019 at 15:48

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Tell that to Chevy and Porsche. I’ll admit it’s a lot of rowing. The car itself and the Tremec T-6070 are a joy. 

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Echo51 04/30/2019 at 15:50

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Also, I don’t have very large hands. This is the knob and my palm + fingers basically fit flush with the circumference.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:51

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Clearly you are missing opportunities to drive with your knees. I often support the lower portion of the steering wheel with my knees, fine for highway driving and slight curves. I often drink coffee and water in my car but rarely snack or attempt to eat. I also tend to leave the car in gear and shift less. I’ll leave it in 3rd from 15 to 45 and only shift into 4th or 5th if I’m going 45 or more for more than 10-15 seconds. Your car has a literal “fuck ton” of torque so I don’t see why couldn’t leave it in 3rd for speeds from say 15-50, and then skip to 5th if you are going to drive 50 for a while. 

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:53

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When I drive stick, it’s similar to how you do. I had a friend that could shift with his left hand and right foot while holding a coffee in his right hand and his left knee steering , but the dude was a maniac.

I guess either most manual drivers put it in 3 and leave it (bad for the mpgs) or...I dunno. Of course on the freeway, you can mess with your phone all the time since you’re in top gear. 

razorbeamteam > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:53

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I drive a manual in a dense urban environment and I cannot also manage to hol d a drink. If I have passengers, I shift sequentially and try to keep the ride as smooth as possible. If it’s just me in the car, then I might start in 2nd, skip gears, let gears hang a bit longer than normal, etc. Either way, it still takes my full concentration. 

I make a point to never mess with my phone while I’m driving. I see so many distracted drivers when I am walking or on my bike and I do not want to be part of that problem. I will pull over on the side of the road if I need to enter something in my GPS, and I use Siri to initiate a call. If I’m at a red light, then NBD, but I will never be “that guy” who needs a honkin’ to let me know the light is green.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:54

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I think the missed connection is because you’re mostly thinking in terms  of puttering around town, and a lot of other people are thinking about longer drives perhaps involving a highway.

Your example isn’t invalid to me. Short drives with lots of stops and a 7s peed gearbox probably prevent you from looking a t your phone as much as someone in a n automatic would.

However as someone who also drives manual and has a commute with lighting traffic long straight roads and highways; there are plenty of opportunities for me to use my phone. I would obviously have to put it down to refocus on the task at hand when an automatic driver probably wouldn’t have to, but I don’t think that would make me a better driver. In fact I think it would make me slower to respond.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > ttyymmnn 04/30/2019 at 15:54

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I didn’t state anywhere that it was impossible - just that for me there are plenty of things that discourage it. And the comments insinuated that what I said was the dumbest thing on planet Earth.

I wrote this out to show people what my driving is like, and I’m not doing anything particularly wrong. I don’t ride clutch, I don’t engine brake, I drive like a normal human being - but when written out there are a lot of different things that have to take place in order just to do that with all the crazy drivers out there.

Thanks for your input. I normally shift b y audio cue as well, but the HUD shows me everything all the time, so it’s started to factor into driving habits.

WilliamsSW > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:54

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I’m about the same as you, I guess, but I don’t ever downshift to come to a stop, and I probably skip gears less than you ( I only have 5, and the car has less power I am sure).

No fucking clue what the people ragging you are on about.

I mean, I have driven a stick shift with a drink in my hand ( and no cup holders) so it’s possible, but I was a 21 year old idiot then...

ToyotaFamily > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:55

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I feel like a lot of it depends on what you’re driving. For example, in my Toyota Pickup, driving is pretty involved. I still fiddle with my phone, but just when I’m stopped and only to skip a song.

It’s got power steering and that’s about it. Throws are long, clutch is vague, and it handles like an old lifted truck would. It’s also pretty slow so moves have to be pretty thought out.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your driving, just sounds like someone felt h olier than thou on the FP.

WRXforScience > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:56

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I’ve got a 6spd in my BRZ, most shifting is 1-2-3-6 or 1-2-4/5. If I’m easing up an on-ramp due to slow merging people in front of me I might have to go 1-2-3-4-6. Very rarely do I actually go through each gear. When stopping I go to neutral and apply the brakes. I have to replace pads often enough with all the track time I put in so I’m going to use brakes instead of the transmission to slow the car.

I driven in 3rd for school zones, 4th or 5th for 30-40mph zones and 6th for 45+mph zones.

412GTI > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:57

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I drove my Civic like this, mainly because I was a poor college student and didn’t want to waste gas. However, I did find some time to do stupid things such as change my music or hit the microphone button on my key board to text.

Instead of upshifting, say 4-5-6, I’d get to 4 and leave it there while changing my music then continue upshifting. The revs were higher for that short moment, but it wasn’t long. I could also hold my phone and aux cord in hand and shift with it. 10/10 would not recommend, but it could be done. If you truly want to do something whether that be change your music or send a reply, you can find a way.

This is the reason I love having  a more modern car with bluetooth and CarPlay. I can keep my eyes on the road with everything integrated into the cars infotainment.

DipodomysDeserti > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 15:58

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I shift 1,2,3,4 then skip to six and cruise from there. I don’t have to downshift very often as I don’t drive in a lot of traffic (central Phoenix has a lot less traffic than the east valley cities). I usually just pop it into neutral when approaching a red light.

I listen to NPR when driving so no need to change songs, but I do need to drink from my water bottle while driving which I do at stoplights. You do have to be quick about it, as you can’t drink and shift at the same time.

Ducey just vetoed a law that would have prohibited having anything in your hands while driving.

Chariotoflove > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:00

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So obviously I don’t drive a stick. But I do have both hands occupied because I use my left hand as my feet. The times when I have an appendage free to mess with a drink or the radio are when coasting in a straight line, like on the highway or a straightaway on a  city street . When the car is changing speed and/or direction isn’t the time to have either your hands or your attention split too many ways.

I-have-to-many-sports-cars-according-to-my-wife > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:00

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This is why I ma de sure my daily had a 6- speed. I find b eing more active when operating the vehicle, it makes it easier to concentrate on driving and much harder to concentrate on other things.  

AestheticsInMotion > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:05

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If I’m holding a drink, it’s in my left hand, which is also bracing the wheel, so my right hand can stay on the wheel and/or shift. If absolutely necessary I can steer with knees (it’s a Miata, tight quarters give a lot of knee-driving control) and shift without the clutch, but that’s pretty rare.

Phone mount is set up in such a way as to allow me to change songs, check weather, get directions etc. With a pinky while still keeping both hands on the wheel and eyes forward.

I don’t think I ever skip gears, but if I’m reaaaaally fee ling lazy I can s tart in 3rd gear and stay in it up to 50 on anything but the steepest hills. That said I prefer to be in 4th for around town, 45mph driving.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:05

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It really is completely related to commute (or route) and traffic . If one has a commute with a couple miles of surface street, and then 15 miles of highway with light traffic, and then a couple more miles to their work, there’s plenty of time to screw around. My commute is mixed. Shifting a lot for the first 15 minutes, highway with very little shifting for the next 15, then 5 minutes with lots of shifting. I don’t always have a drink with me in the car, but do somewhat regularly and it’s no issue to find a moment to grab a drink. I pretty much never mess with my phone in my car (Do Not Disturb while driving feature helps), but will sometimes take a glance at a long stoplight. I’ll change radio stations, and take a phone call while I’m driving, but that’s one or two touches on my steering wheel or touchscreen (Tacoma).

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:06

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Ever miss a shift? Did you get rid of the skip shift? 

Echo51 > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:07

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You wouldn’t want to, but if you need 2 hands to temporarily crank a bottle lid loose it works for a quick bit on a straight road.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:08

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My wife will do this occasionally on road trips to fix her ponytail. On the interstate. With our kids in the car. Makes me crazy...

I’m right here! Ask me to hold the wheel!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:09

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You could push that from 2nd to 3rd or 4th to 5th with the heel of your hand while holding your phone or a drink. You definitely should not, but you could...

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 16:10

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Simple solution: Stop letting her drive with the kids in the car....

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Echo51 04/30/2019 at 16:11

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My mom showed my how to steer with my knees as a wee lad. I don’t make a habit of it but it is a convenient skill to have.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 04/30/2019 at 16:12

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How many speeds do you have? I always leave one hand on the wheel unless stopped.

Also, if I leave my car anywhere between 2 through 5, I’m getting 8-10  mpg. So I’ve developed habits to upshift until I get 20. 

sony1492 > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:12

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I always row through e very gear in correct order on upshifts and downshifts, doing most of the braking required to match changes in traffic pace using the engine first followed by brakes or both with heeltoe or plain revmatch.

Doing 45 in 5th gear, light turns red up ahead revmatch 4th, 3rd, heeltoe into 2nd because oregon driver abruptly halts, heeltoe 1st, wait for light, said driver left 2 car lengths and slowly inches forward, slip the clutch to take up the space they’ve left.

Light goes green, shift 1-2-3- 4, someone slows down into taco bell 4 cars ahead, revmatch into 3rd slowing me enough to match traffic, upshift into 4th.

In this scenario much of the time is spent shifting and planning shifts but I can still hold a coffee with my thumb and 2 finger while using the other 2 and my palm to shift(this will happen if I’m holding coffee while someone slows down up ahead and I want to engine brake, also if the light goes green while your holding the cup I will shift with it until I’m in the desired gear for cruise before setting it down[ unless it’s slow acceleration])

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 04/30/2019 at 16:13

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The woman is incredibly smart and successful and independent to a fault. It’s so hard for her to ask me for any assistance at all when I’m in the passenger seat (I do most of the driving on our road trips).

benn454 > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:15

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Sounds good to me. I never screw around with my phone when I’m driving anything, and I wait till I’m cruising in the highest gear that’s smooth at my chosen speed before I try to drink anything.

 Don't let people make you feel bad for being a responsible driver.

diplodicus forgot his password > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:17

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So I can dip my mcnuggets in buffalo sauce...

Snuze: Needs another Swede > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:19

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Popsocket?

EngineerWithTools > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:19

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I’m basically with you on all fronts.

I CAN mess with things while driving my manual VW, but it’s a giant pain and I end up dropping stuff. It’s much  easier in the automatics, and even mores in the cars with auto cruise control.  (More generally, I make a conscious effort to not mess around in any car. I see too much distracted driving and the thought that it could be me is horrifying.)

Drink of water, change music, etc, all for stop lights.

I will say, however, that I very rarely downshift when I know I’ll be stopping. Lots of coasting in neutral, then brake. I also find myself looking for a 7th gear when I don’t have one. Once in a while I’ll even get the clutch in and the trans out of 6th before my brain says “that’s all you got, man, put it back ”.

BeaterGT > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:19

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I’m with you,   minimal phone usage while driving. 99% of the time I will not answer a phone call while driving. In my mind, t hat’s what passengers or being parked is for. I know some auto drivers who will drive with the phone in their right hand the ENTIRE time (I don’t drive with them anymore ). I think the main issue, if you can even call it that, is that you’re comparing your (and mine as well) very attentive driving habits to... the masses.

Also, n ice thing about Corvettes is that you can skip around gears a bit and don’t necessarily have to go sequentially. Seems like you already do that a little on your trips to Costco :)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:19

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Which do you care more about: your money or the environment?

=) 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:20

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My mazda is a 5 speed and the subaru is a 6 speed. I tend to shift the subaru more because it is louder at higher RPMs than the Mazda. The Mazda can tick over at 4,000 rpm and I might not even notice it. I frequently do 1-2-3 at 5k plus. The mazda ge ts 25 mpg on a bad day. You have to really work it since it only has 150 hp. I don’t recommend driving with your knees, it’s a bad habit and it provides no emergency stop or turn whatsoever.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 16:21

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Don’t ask, just do.

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:21

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I drive an auto, so not completely applicable to you, but I do use knees occasionally. Most common usage would be putting the cap back on a water bottle. I can get it off with a hand on the wheel but not back on.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:22

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Yet my co-workers and friends think my mazda is “fast” since I wring it out every once in a while. I’m like dude you have no idea what fast is....

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DipodomysDeserti 04/30/2019 at 16:22

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What was his rationale for vetoing it? 

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 16:23

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Part of the reason that I do a lot of gear traveling (I skip when I can) for example 7-6-4-2 is that the shift pattern is wide and complex enough that too far and I might miss, and I don’t want a downshift to 1 at 45 when I wanted 3.

As far as the eco-skip shifter thing, I’m still not smooth going from 1 to 4. However, I’ve gotten a lot of practice managing it, so I can gracefully insist for 2 anyway nowadays, and I’m getting better at rev-matching for the 1-4 upshift to be smoother.

I hear there is like a fuse pull or something I can do to bypass it, and it’s extremely annoying when turning left, but so far it’s not that intrusive for me. But obviously I’m hyper focused on it. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > sony1492 04/30/2019 at 16:28

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Why never skip gears? I do 4th to 6th all the time, and 6th to 4th or 3rd regularly (in my truck, after coasting for a bit to match speed, or rev-matching in my M3).

Do you engine brake at every stop? I used to more, but have changed habits to just drop it in neutral and brake. Engine braking is fun, so I do it from time to time, but it really is unnecessary wear.

I also occasionally, rarely, employ your drink-holding-while-shifting technique. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > I-have-to-many-sports-cars-according-to-my-wife 04/30/2019 at 16:32

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This is why my kids first car(s) will have a manual transmission

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 04/30/2019 at 16:35

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I usually do, but I don’t know what she wants unless she asks, or starts doing it/getting it without my help.

I do put my hand on the steering wheel if she ever takes her hands off (seems like she’s doing this less and less, thankfully). 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:37

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I think I’d get rid of it if I was you. No reason to expend any focus on it. Your car should do what you want it to do. Period. 

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 16:37

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I drive a Z06. Obviously my purchasing actions indicate I care about neither.

;) 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 04/30/2019 at 16:39

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I loooved wringing out my ‘05 3s hatch, and chirping the tires in 2nd gear. I would just just flog that thing all day every day. What a great little car.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:40

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So shoot for 7 mpg on your next drive, maybe ? Haha!

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 16:40

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Yeah, I think I will eventually take care of it, but it’s low priority atm. 

sony1492 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 16:43

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I dont like the feeling of not shifting into a gear, occasionally coming to a stop I will not revmatch 1st or just go 2nd- neutral. But yes 98% of the time I revmatch or heeltoe every downshift.

I believe Most of the shifting habits are caused by the fact that most of the manual cars I’ve owned were 4 cylinders that have no torque and poor brakes. My first manual was the sc400 with a v8 but the 350z trans is very notchy so if you dont shift in order you may miss the gear.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a12265402/debunking-the-myth-that-engine-braking-is-bad-for-your-car/

Im not convinced engine braking has any detrimental effect, and even if it does; vehicles will all wear out eventually, may aswell enjoy them

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 16:49

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Haha - If I do the entire rev range at full throttle for multiple gears, I can see the fuel needle visibly dip. 

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 16:52

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One thing about high torque trannies is that they require a bit of gumption . I’ll just spill the drink trying that - maybe that’s a fault with me, not the car. 

Shift24 > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:54

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I dont have 7 speed so I dont skip alot but I mainly do when one handed driving is needed (i.e. Phone call or snacking). From a stop one hand its 1-2-4 up until over 55mph is 5th.

I know this can be frowned u pon but I will knee drive for a hot second with my left leg and clutch- less shift. I know the points in my car where I just watch the revs and dont need the clutch allowing for me to use my left as a holder. And n o im not grinding gears

I also allow my car to rev out. I am not afraid of leaving it in gear close to red line. So if I dont have a free hand in a corner (meaning its on the steering wheel) , you better believe that you’re going to hear my Accord sing.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > EngineerWithTools 04/30/2019 at 16:55

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As an engie you probably know this, since t his is more in the realm of hypermiling, but slowing down in gear allows the engine to run on no fuel, and as such I try to recoup a little bit of that gas savings while slowing down instead of coasting all the way down on neutral.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 16:56

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I tend to upshift early a lot to save on fuel unless I am in a hurry...5-spd here, but 2k-ish is the norm for me as below that I start potentially lugging the engine. On hills I obviously shift at a higher shift point to prevent lugging an get more power . The Owner’s Manual for my car recommends 2.5K-3K for the best balance between fuel economy and acceleration power. I tend to accelerate slowly, but not deathly slowly or so slow that I annoy anybody, just not flooring it every time I pull away.

I downshift when I need to pass, which I usually do on highways only unless I have to. I tend to drive more for economy in my everyday driving than performance....not that my 2009 Accent has any, but it’s nippy enough when I need it to be. I also always blip the throttle on downshifts no matter how fast I am going to help the gears/clutch out.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > sony1492 04/30/2019 at 16:59

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It’s not bad , but it’s basically double the wear on the clutch over the same mileage. Definitely agree about enjoying your car. Over 120k on my M3 (80k and plenty of track days on my watch) - backroadtrip to NW Arkansas this weekend. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 17:02

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Okay, OPPO Challenge:

Next tank, just enjoy the hell out of the car, never use 6th or 7th, and report back with mileage.

Tank after that, hypermile as much as possible, ever use 2nd or 3rd, and report back. 

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 17:04

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My wife is the same way, so I get it.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 17:05

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Can I buy a radar detector before I do this? I feel like I would need one before I do Fun tank 1. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 17:09

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I’ll allow it. 

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 04/30/2019 at 17:12

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Until I got in my friend’s 400 hp Stang I thought the same thing about my 2000 Kia Spectra. 0-60 in just above nine seconds with a stick ... hardcore srs supercar, bro

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 17:21

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If you get a chance to drive a newer ford or chevy turbo diesel truck do it. They are not super fast but the torque deliver and the ability to move a huge piece of metal that fast that quickly is very impressive. Our work truck, a 1-ton ford power stroke will roast the tires up to 60 if you floor it.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Snuze: Needs another Swede 04/30/2019 at 17:26

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The issue isn’t how to hold the phone, the issue is how much attention can be diverted to it during the drive.   

Actually if you ever buy a C7, I highly recommend this:

https://www.proclipusa.com/product/855034-proclip-angled-mount

Pricey and requires a separate phone cradle that ProClip also sells, but works extremely well. Got mine a week ago and have been very happy with it.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 04/30/2019 at 17:27

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Tbh I should drive more trucks in general. I tend to avoid big cars but they’re getting bigger all the time, and I might need a truck in the future. 

sony1492 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 17:31

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Even if the revmatch is typically close? It should be 0 clutch wear since no slip is occuring.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > sony1492 04/30/2019 at 17:47

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There’s always a little wear, even for the best of us. Also c onsider the synchros, throw out bearing, etc...

I’m just saying, if you use something twice as much, it’s likely to wear out twice as fast. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > sony1492 04/30/2019 at 17:49

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Here’s a more educated answer:

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > sony1492 04/30/2019 at 17:52

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More, in response to that last one :

The conclusion might be valid, but the explanation is wrong. Damage doesn’t only occur on surfaces in contact with one another. Firstly, given the asymmetric usage of the “forward” and “rear” faces, you’d see failed gears with vastly higher wear on the forward faces. Not true . This isn’t how stresses and strains work. You can load one face, and have stress transmitted all the way to the other side. See here for visualization . Stress reversal also kills fatigue life.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 17:56

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Great for the Nürbergring, I suppose...

sony1492 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 18:01

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There will always be wear and the match is rarely perfect especially doing it as a driving habit, but as opposed to just letting the clutch out in a lower gear revmatching should be nicer to components save for the throw out bearing and pressure plate

DipodomysDeserti > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/30/2019 at 18:26

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They just passed a bill last week that specifically banned talking or texting while driving, and he felt it would be confusing to have more than one law dealing with the same issue.

Also, banning drinking water while driving isn’t really doable in a state like AZ, where lots of people have long, hot drives.

GLiddy > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 18:42

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I only really learned to drive a manual during the past year, after 40-odd years of driving on automatics. I taught myself so any bad-habits are strictly mine.

The car is a 2006 Corolla 5-spd, factory rated at 126 hp. I use it as a runabout and occasionally make trips up to 60 miles or so. Honestly, I flog the shit out of it. Full throttle driving happens every time I’m out in it. For what it is, it does does have nice little intake growl so I can pretend I’m Dustin Hoffman on my way to stop a wedding. (If you guys have never seen “The Graduate” where Benjamin is tooling around in his Alfa, catch it sometimes. The engine sounds are exquisite.)

My normal driving: 1st gear is really low. I almost never downshift into 1st. It only gets me moving away from a stop. Around the neighborhood, like on 25-35 mph limit roads, I’ll ease away and hit 2nd around 15mph and then 3rd when I get to the limit. I might or might not hit 4th. 4th maybe if its flat or downhill, otherwise its 3rd.

Coming to a slow stop, I’ve developed the habit into popping it out of gear and coasting to a stop. The main reason is that I can’t quite get the hang of slowly decelerating without having the car go into some bucking back and forth. I can brake when out of gear much better and keep it smooth.

Coming off a start and getting to 45-55 mph, I’m pretty hard on the throttle. I’ll hammer 1st gear up to about 4000 rpm (35mph?) and grab 2nd pretty quickly trying to match the revs to keep it smooth, but quick. Sometimes this doesn’t work. Then I’ll rev it again up to 3000 rpm and get 3rd and quickly 4th where I’ll be right about the speed I want. 5th gear in the Corolla is an overdrive so I may or may not use it at this speed. The throttle response is really spongy in 5th or 4th, so if I need a blip of speed, I’ll drop to 3rd and tap the throttle (my downshift still needs work) to get the engine into the sweet spot where it has a bit of power.

Again, slowing down from this speed, I’ll not usually downshift. Just get it out of gear and coast to a stop. (The bucking problem again.)

Freeway speeds: I’m an onramp fireball. I’ll run every gear almost to red line and run up the gears to about 80mph by the end of the long, luxurious freeway onramps near my house. Once I make the merge, I’ll shift to 5th and move with traffic, or a little faster. The Corolla didn’t come with cruise control, but I put it in, so I’ll then engage cruise and go down the interstate at about 80. (Toyota seem to have the harness and ECU for every option, they just install the hardware or not depending on option list).

I’m still working on my clutch/accelerator control. I tend to get a bit antsy and want to over-rev when starting from a standhill up an incline or hill. I have to sometimes think about bringing the revs down before slipping the clutch and getting moving. I cannot heel-toe downshift. I’m just not coordinated enough it seems to do a proper blip while downshifting. It seems I could use some instruction as I’ve just made due with learning it all on my own.

Oh, and when I started this, I tried watching some “how to drive a manual” videos out of England where they teach using the e-brake to hold your car and then proceed. No way. I can’t get the hang of it. Its so much easier for me to just get off the brake and onto the gas than trying to do 3 things at once.

Do you guys do the handbrake hold thing? For me its a sure recipe for a stall.

As to multitasking while driving.  No way.  I’m so glad too.  It keeps me focused on driving and hell, I have more fun anyway.  Driving an automatic makes me feel disengaged, so my borderline ADD makes me want to fool with something, like my phone.  Having the manual now keeps my hands busy and keeps my mind busy.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > GLiddy 04/30/2019 at 18:55

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Modern manual cars - the ones that are left anyway, post 2011, or thereabouts? - have hill start assist now. So no more futzing with e-brakes, which are now electronic and don’t have any direct linkages the rest of the car like manual parking brakes used to.

My e-brake will actually turn itself off if you try to set off with it still on, like kind of an idiot detector. 

Jayvincent > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 19:21

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Wow, talk about an Oppo-popular topic like shifting preferences and everyone comes to the party! nicely done.

I’ll throw my 0.02$ in, the only thing I would have done different: when the light goes green, I don’t pop it into 1st. When the light goes green and the first two of four cars roll, I don’t pop it into first. When the light goes green and all four cars in front of me roll off... I still wait for a car length and a half to open up before I put it in 1st and ease the clutch out. Otherwise I know I’ll be all over their bumper and clutch back in at ~8 mph and them I’m f*cked - too slow to go to second, too fast to buzz the clutch in 1st and then quick shift to 2nd. So I wait... because 1st gear is going to eat up a car length and a half of gap no matter what and I’m in 2nd when I catch up to Sleepy, Dopey and Happy in my lane. Happy shifting and thanks for the detailed writeup

EngineerWithTools > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 04/30/2019 at 21:54

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That’s true! Ok , it’s true for not -carbureted gas and not-mechanically injected diesel engines , although the math gets complicated when it comes to how far you travel coasting vs while   decelerating in gear.

I figure that the trans and clutch have a finite number of shifts in them, so I weigh the extra shifts against the fuel burned at idle. Besides, it’s a VW EA888, so the key to good fuel mileage is to - surprise, surprise - stay out of the turbo. (Well, I’m told.)