"Berang" (berang)
02/20/2019 at 23:29 • Filed to: fishlopnik
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"Berang" (berang)
02/20/2019 at 23:29 • Filed to: fishlopnik | 2
| 8 |
update: second fish and more plants
I added the Amazon Sword (I think that’s what it is) the Melon Sword, and the Cryptocoryne a little over two weeks ago. The second goldfish I added about ten days ago. I wasn’t planning on planting more plants, but the Petco near my house was closing, and everything was on sale. The goldfish have eaten most of the anacharis, and it’s not growing any when I put it in a separate tank, even if I fill that tank with old aquarium water.
I’ve set this tank up in a very old-fashioned way, contrary to many of the current popular beliefs about how goldfish should be kept. It has gravel (not too controversial, but there are plenty of people who say goldfish should have no substrate) it has live plants (rarely done because goldfish like to eat everything) it is “only” 20 gallons (many contend that a fancy goldfish needs 20 gallons, and each additional fish requires and additional ten gallons - some think a single goldfish needs 50 or more gallons). It uses two small box filters (current wisdom is goldfish need very powerful filters because they’re “dirty” fish).
And yet the fish are healthy, the plants are doing ok (they should do better as the tank ages some, it’s still very fresh) and water tests clean. I was reading a couple of old books about keeping goldfish, and figured I’d go with the advice of those who were setting up aquariums before manufacturers had all sorts of gadgetry to sell - which then became “necessary” to keep fish.
The first thing, that all older books stress repeatedly is the importance of surface area, not tank volume, for the well being of the fish. So I chose a 20 gallon “long” tank, it has the same volume as the normal 20 gallon tank size, obviously, but its shorter height and increased length afford much more water surface area (roughly the same as a conventional 29 gallon tank). I don’t know when or why people shifted away from surface area to volume being more important for fish - but the arguments for surface area being of primary importance make more sense to me. These books were written when many people set up tanks without any filtration at all, and often no or minimal aeration, so they had to know how to make that work. The surface of the water is where the water expels CO2 and absorbs oxygen, the water volume is simply swimming space.
Instead of filters, many used snails and mussels to break down waste and clean the water. Live plants were of extreme importance for absorbing ammonia, nitrates, etc. with the added benefit of providing some oxygen during the daytime. I have filters, but I may add snails soon enough. Not sold on the mussels though.
The filters I’ve had plenty of experience with, and have already found the simple box filter to have plenty of advantages over the conventional HOB power filter. I have two in this tank mostly because I wanted to compare two different brands, but also because it allows me to remove and clean one filter, while the other stays in the tank, so I don’t have to worry about killing the beneficial bacteria that live in the filters, and accidentally causing the tank to “crash”. The bacteria convert waste chemicals from the fish into nitrates, and are necessary to keep the water from turning toxic in
short order. The plants also absorb the nitrates, so everything in the tank basically relies on their presence to stay healthy. The idea that goldfish need especially heavy filtration because they’re “dirty” seems to be a misconception, stemming from the fact that goldfish, like all coldwater fish, need more highly oxygenated water (than tropical types) to survive.
Interestingly, when I see the way goldfish aquariums are set up by Japanese and Chinese hobbyists, they more closely resemble what I’m doing than what most American aquarists recommend.
Gerry197
> Berang
02/21/2019 at 00:25 |
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Nice! Your tank does fly just a little bit in the face of the norm just.
But honestly a lot of people have been using simple air powered sponge filters for bacterial colonies, especially for breeding and isolation tanks.
I think if you keep the stock low, even for Goldfish which are very high ammonia fish, it should be fine.
It’s a g reat looking tank.
TheRealBicycleBuck
> Berang
02/21/2019 at 00:26 |
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Before active filtration , the only surface available for gas exchange was the surface of the water . Once active filtration was introduced, the effective surface area was greatly increased because the water surface was constantly moving. Active aeration goes one step further because every bubble effectively increases the total surface area for gas exchange. This made the surface area of the aquarium much less important when determining the total biological load an aquarium can handle. The down side is that the whole system can crash if there’s a power outage.
I like that you are using a substrate that is more plant friendly. Back when I was a student, I set up one aquarium with a couple of inches of soil with gravel on top to keep the fish from disturbing it too much. I also kept the biological load light and only kept fish which could eat algae, small insects and aquatic worms which lived in the aquarium. That system stayed in balance for over a year with nothing more than topping off the water. It crashed when I had to break it down to move to a new apartment.
Mixing tropical plants and temperate fish will probably cause you trouble. Goldfish like the water much cooler than the plants you’ve selected. If you keep it cool for the fish, the plants won’t thrive. If you keep it warm for the plants, the fish won’t thrive.
facw
> Berang
02/21/2019 at 00:27 |
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Berang
> TheRealBicycleBuck
02/21/2019 at 00:47 |
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I checked the plants against what was recommended in the books I have - Anubias seemed to be unknown before the 1970s, so aren’t listed, neither is Melon Sword, but the others were ok’d in the books. It does recommend a heated tank for Amazon Sword and Cryptocoryne species, but this tank stays in the 68-70F range so I don’t think it’ll be too much of a problem.
Honestly after reading about Cryptocoryne melting in new tanks, I’m surprised these ones have been doing so well, I’ve only had
to remove one leaf from each plant so far and they both have new leaves sprouting up after only a couple weeks.
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Berang
> Gerry197
02/21/2019 at 00:50 |
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I don’t think I’ll add any more fish. While I could put one more fish in, now, I know it’d just be extra difficulty later when they reach mature size. This size tank should be comfortable for two adult goldfish when they get there.
I’ve always been curious about the popularity of sponge filters, while the box filter becomes even more esoteric (well over here anyway, in Japan and China it is probably the most popular type) since they function basically the same way, the box filter just has an added advantage of being able to be filled with carbon or other media should one need to do so.
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Gerry197
> Berang
02/21/2019 at 01:01 |
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Sounds like a good plan. So many breeders use simple sponge filters because they work well, cheap to keep and maintain, and only require an airpump.
Your tank has inspired me to make make a back to basics tank, maybe a 29 tall.
Probably use these Filters
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Berang
> Gerry197
02/21/2019 at 01:08 |
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This is what I’m using in one corner
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For a larger tank, I’d recommend this though:
I had one of these set up in a tank a few years ago, and it does have some nice features, like the intakes being on the sides of the box instead of the top, so it moves water from the very bottom of the tank (also probably keeps water from recirculating right out of the lift tube and then back into the filter).
One thing I like about box filters vs. the sponges is that filter floss does a really good job polishing the water vs. what a sponge can do. I just have mine with floss and ceramic bio media (the weight of the ceramic rings also helps hold them in place).
BigBlock440
> Berang
02/21/2019 at 08:08 |
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I think the volume recommendations are for tanks without live plants, the plant do wonders to keep the water clean. The same with the surface recommendation, it’s the difference between active aeration and filtration vs none. Total volume of water is important because it dilutes the ammonia and nitrates to a safe enough level and the charcoal filter removes them, too small and you’d need a much larger filter, but I think the plants give you a much greater buffer there.
My tank has been going for 4 years, never once has the water been cloudy and family members always comment on how clean the water is, I assume that’s solely due to the live plants and nobody else had used them.
My fish (goldfish or otherwise) never bothered the broad leaf plants, but the 5 times I’ve tried small leaf plants including the anacharis twice, everything eventually ended up tearing them up, even ones that weren’t supposed to .