The Mini's 2nd gear synchro failed on Saturday

"TheTurbochargedSquirrel" (thatsquirrel) 02/19/2019 at 10:25 • Filed to: None

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So now I’m shopping for BRZs I can’t afford yet. Again. This one seems pretty good to me:

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2015, 32k miles, $13,900. Who am I kidding, I can’t afford this yet. Granny shifting the Mini and sitting out autocross season it is. 

Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 10:29

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Bummer on the synco! I’m causally shopping BRZs as well. Probably wont be able to buy for another year-ish, but will keeping an eye on the market until then. I’ll take any color besides red, so that helps open up my options. Maybe an FRS if the price/options are just right, but I like the Subaru face a little better. 

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 10:31

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I case of kinja:  https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=503344075&zip=01536&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D01536%26startYear%3D1981%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Don%26endYear%3D2020%26modelCodeList%3DSUBBRZ%26makeCodeList%3DSUB%26searchRadius%3D300%26transmissionCodes%3DMAN&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2020&modelCodeList=SUBBRZ&makeCodeList=SUB&searchRadius=300&makeCode1=SUB&modelCode1=SUBBRZ&clickType=listing

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 10:34

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Ouch! Thats sad :/

Btw how did you bleed the brakes in your Mini? I've never done it myself but have read that flushing the ABS pump is a pain.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 10:35

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I’m surprised BRZ/86 prices are still that high. Over A year ago when I was shopping several people told me they would be in the “under 12k” range that I was in, but I couldn’t find any for less than 14. And even then a surprising number of them were automatic.

Also why not buy an  e9x? It’s worked out for me! 

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Danimalk - Drives a Slow Car Fast 02/19/2019 at 10:38

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Driving my Dad’s BRZ last fall confirmed to me that it was going to be my next car. I was planning on buying sometime this fall or winter after graduating but the loss of the syncro puts me in an awkward spot. Don’t have the financial stability yet to make a BRZ purchase, not really worth it to rebuild the transmission in a $2k car with 160k miles. For now I just have to limp the Mini along and hope that nothing else in the transmission fails.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 10:42

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Mini is just like everyone else. If you don’t have the dealer tool, you cannot flush the ABS system. Period. Can’t access the EBCM.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 10:42

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It’s poor timing but I’m honestly surprised that the Midlands lasted to just shy of 158k without issue.

I’ve had my mechanic bleed the brakes since I don’t have the tool needed to cycle the ABS pump. 

E90M3 > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 10:47

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Just skip second and go from first to third.

I can’t stand the lack of armrest in the BRZ. 

Chariotoflove > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 10:49

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Sorry to hear. That sucks. That Subaru price isn’t bad though. Any chance you can get a bridging loan from your parents or a relative because of the bad timing?  I usually am reluctant to think such things, but this is kind of an exceptional thing. 

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/19/2019 at 10:49

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Ok, so I do see an option in my diagnostic  tool to flush the pump. What happens if I jusy flush it without doing anything else, just to see if it works? Will something break?

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 10:52

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I have a perosnal question for you regarding the Toyboro twins. How can you endure that torque dip from 3k to 5k? When I test drove a 14 BRZ, I was massively annoyed that 10% and 50% throttle give me the same amount of acceleration in those revs. Was it just something on the car that I drove or is it the same for all of them?

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 02/19/2019 at 10:53

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Going from a Mini, to the  parent company of Mini? What could go wrong dot pee en gee.

Dogsatemypants > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 10:53

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Having not experienced this myself, what are the main symptoms of a single gear synchro fail? Doe s it just grind until you get to the right rpm?

E90M3 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 02/19/2019 at 10:56

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Coils, gaskets, TPA, fuel economy, etc.

Other than that? Not much. 

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 11:07

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I haven't actually driven a pre-facelift BRZ so I can't tell you. They made changes for 2017 which minimized the dip.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 11:12

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Aah good to know, I’ll go find a newer one to drive. The motor is amazing up top, but a pain for DD.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Dogsatemypants 02/19/2019 at 11:15

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Yup, just lots of grinding if the revs don't match. I have enough of a synchro left that I can put a tiny bit of pressure on 2nd gear while changing but a moderate (think normal shifting force) pressure and it grinds bad.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > E90M3 02/19/2019 at 11:17

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Going from 1st to 3rd doesn’t work great with only 100 ft lbs of torque. I still have second, just no synchro forcing me to be super slow and careful with my shift if I don’t want it to grind horribly.

The Mini doesn't have an arm rest either so I'm used to it.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Chariotoflove 02/19/2019 at 11:21

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Right now the plan is to limp the mini along and hope nothing else breaks. If I start loosing gears I will probably end up driving my sister's Impreza until graduation at which point I will have to figure something out. I'll have to start pushing to see if I can get a down payment or something for graduation.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 11:34

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Even with the torque dip it still makes more torque at 3k than my Mini does.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 11:38

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Ooh is the NA motor that lame :(

I drove the BRZ after I bought my Mini and the SC really starts pulling at 3K, so it was a big difference for me.

I’m pretty sure the R53 is faster in a straight line in the real world compared to a BRZ.

Dogsatemypants > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 11:41

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Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 11:41

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Well, if you do it without actually being in the exactly correct position with the exactly correct steps as dictated by the factory service manual? Yes. Things will break. Very, very expensive things.

Secondly, if your cheapo scan tool is lying and/or doesn’t do it correctly and/or tries to cheat it by cycling the pump (which are all common things)? You will break all the very, very expensive things. This goes double if it doesn’t have the dry condition check, which will instantly burn up the pump/modulator .

And when I say very expensive things, I don’t mean brake lines or calipers. I mean you will damage the pump/modulator which is often a combination unit with the EBCM. So yeah, $2000 minimum. And no, you CANNOT replace the ABS module yourself either! Because these days, they are VIN-encoded PLUS there’s firmware-specific ABIs, so you MUST have the actual dealer tool and the actual dealer software. (This isn’t just Mini. It’s everybody .) 

The REAL fun is when you get into the modern ABS systems that you can’t even BLEED without the dealer tools. They detect the bleed valve as an open hydraulic failure and cut flow to the line.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/19/2019 at 11:43

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Ouch! Looks like I’ll take it to a shop then.

I do have the BMW propitiatory diagnostic tool (INPA ) tho  so maybe it isnt too bad.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 11:54

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Honestly if you have the correct dealer tool? It’s not a big deal at all. It’s HAVING that tool that is the big deal. Most people think an Autel or Snap-On that says it can access the EBCM is good enough, and it’s just not.

Once you’ve got the tool? Just follow the FSM procedures and it’s cake. You don’t even need the sub because you’re not doing any code load.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/19/2019 at 12:10

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Just checked the service manual, they have the detailed procedure there.

I need to make sure that my tool does what the dealer tool does. INPA is not the dealer tool.

Forrest > E90M3 02/19/2019 at 12:15

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I had a BRZ for a while. Great steering feel and cornering. But it was so ungodly loud in that thing. 

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 12:48

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The INPA is, for your purposes here, the dealer tool. You don’t need the full top of the line all-services tool, just the portable. If I understand BMW correctly, the INPA is the old ‘portable’ and the ICOM is the ‘all-services.’ As long as it’s actual, official BMW/Mini/whoever software, that’s what matters.

It’s kind of like DRB-III vs the DRB System. If I needed to do a basic EBCM operation like pump test, bleed, or flush, I only needed the handheld DRB-III. But if I needed to program the EBCM or PCM, I’d need to hook up the DB9 programming interface to the PC.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 12:56

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The NA engine makes 110 ft lbs at 4800 rpm so yes. It's super lazy up to 4k.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability 02/19/2019 at 13:12

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My dad and I are pretty sure that my sister's Impreza is the quickest car to 30 we own. Mostly because the CVT means that you can be at peak power from about 10 mph.

E92M3 > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 13:30

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Why not tear it down this weekend and install a new synchro? Or find a used gearbox and swap it in. Might as well put in a new clutch while you're at it. 

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 13:52

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It has all of the boost.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > E92M3 02/19/2019 at 14:42

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While a new 2nd gear synchro is only $65 rebuilding a transmission is way outside my capabilities. A used 5 speed would be an option however they are quite prone to failure (mostly differential ring gear failure around 120-140k) that a used transmission would be a total crap shoot. A reman 5 speed is $2,500. A Cooper S 6 speed would be the proper solution but I haven't begun to price that one out (in addition to the transmission it would require new drive shafts, shift linkage, clutch and clutch slave, speed sensor, trans mount, etc). 

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > E90M3 02/19/2019 at 15:36

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There’s an OEM option (or part) for the armrest. Then again, why this thing’s an option is beyond me.

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 15:40

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Wow, used BRZs are cheaper than I thought. That’s still way more money than I can spend without my wife putting my head on a stick and parading it around the neighborhood .

E90M3 > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 02/19/2019 at 15:53

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Seems to be a seldom equipped option, for some reason. 

Dusty Ventures > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 19:59

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That price screams “it’s a trap!”

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Dusty Ventures 02/19/2019 at 20:04

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Its only $100 less than that 14k mile 2013 GBS you shared a while back. I do wonder what’s up with the roof though.

Not that it matters. I'll have a completely different set of BRZs to look at when things get serious in July or August. I'm going to have some serious autocross withdrawals by then.

Dusty Ventures > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 02/19/2019 at 20:26

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“First model year” issues (some real, some exaggerated) have taken a chunk out of the resale on 2013s (and to a somewhat lesser extent 2014s). But as someone who spent months shopping and looking at BRZs, 2015s don’t get that cheap unless something’s up. Especially in Limited trim and especially in WR blue.

I’d really like to see some pics from under the hood.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Dusty Ventures 02/19/2019 at 20:39

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Makes sense. My window shopping has previously been limited to 2013 GBS Limiteds and 2017+ performance packs. It seems like it would be worth a look to me, I would just have to check the carfax before driving to PA (which is outside my range if I was actually shopping anyway).