Which Generations Of Car/Trucks Have Outlived Their Successors?

"Pickup_man" (zekeh) 12/10/2019 at 15:06 • Filed to: None

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Boxer_4's post earlier about which old cars do you see surprisingly often, and which newer cars you see surprisingly few of reminded me of a question that I’ve been meaning to post for a while.

What generations of cars and or trucks have seemed to outlive their successors?

What initially brought about this observation begins with my love of the 10th generation, Jellybean F-150 (‘ 97-’ 04) , and the fact that I seem to see far more of them on the road, and for sale, than the 11th generation (‘04-08') that followed .

Despite being what is arguably a far better truck (and IMO one of the best trucks Ford has made), the 3 valve 5.4l V8 used in 11th gen was plagued with common problems that were troublesome at best, and if not addressed, catastrophic at worst. Broken two part spark plugs, exhaust manifolds known for breaking studs, and cam phaser failures that varied from annoying tick to metal shavings through the engine were the norm for these trucks. None of the repairs for these problems would be considered cheap. B roken plugs required specialty tools, manifold studs required lifting the engine out of the cradle (or lots of time and swearing) and cam phasers required top end rebuilds at minimum, engine replacement at the worst. These issues normally didn’t arise until the trucks were past 100,000 miles, and generally on to their second owners, so as the trucks aged, and depreciated the repair costs made less and less sense which led to a lot of scrapped trucks.

The earlier trucks however used a simpler version of the 5.4l V8, utilizing only two valves per cylinder and no cam phasers or variable valve timing, and while these engines weren’t without their problems (spark plug blowouts, exhaust manifold studs, cracked plastic intakes on later models) fixes tend to fall into the hundreds of dollars category , and not the thousands. Because of this it’s reasonable to believe that these trucks were generally repaired instead of scrapped, and have stuck around a lot longer. Beyond that the 2V 5.4 has proven to be a durable and reliable motor, as have the trucks that surround them.

Outside of the midwest I have a suspicion that the previous 9th generation F-150 has outlived both of the above, but at least here in South Dakota this generation is now on the wrong side of the rot-value curve and are becoming less common by the day.

There are a few other vehicles I’ve noticed this for , but too keep this post from getting too long winded I’ll leave it up to feedback from you.

Which vehicles do you notice that have seemed to outlive their successors?

OPPOsaurus WRX > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 15:08

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early 2000's Toyota Cockroach

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 15:11

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R50 Pathfinder (my brother has my old one)

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 15:12

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First Gen dodges arguably ?

I still see a shocking amount used as DDs and work trucks. Not so with second gens.

****this could just be bias as I notice first gens more.  Also could be a geographic thing as rust in the PNW doesn’t claim as many victims

fintail > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 15:14

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F or a few reason s, I think already I see more MB W140s than W220s on the road, and maybe just as many or more W126s as W140s.

Cé hé sin > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 15:14

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Volvo 200 series of course (by a year).

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > fintail 12/10/2019 at 15:18

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Long live the W140 and W126.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 15:20

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I agree with the jellybean Ford observation (I think I was the first to post it there). My friend’s 9 8 is one of the most abused vehicles I have ever seen and it just keeps going. It is so dirty that no one can even draw crude images in the grime anymore because it is so caked on.

Pickup_man > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 12/10/2019 at 15:25

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This one might be geographic, (as could my example). A part from one regular, 1st gens are a pretty rare occurrence around here, where as I still see lots of second gens around, despite their terrible transmissions.

Pickup_man > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/10/2019 at 15:25

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Maybe I just don’t notice, but I don’t recall seeing one of these, ever. 

Pickup_man > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 12/10/2019 at 15:29

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I don’t recall your post, but maybe that’s whats jump started my thought.

Even as an unabashed fan of the Jellybean it’s easy to see that they are  fairly cheaply built trucks, yet they seem to hold up better than competitors of the same age, and have proven to be pretty damn durable. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 15:31

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Seriously? I see them all the time (not nearly as common as F-150s, though).

Textured Soy Protein > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 15:35

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Not that I see either of these very often but the W124 Mercedes E-Class is much more loved than the W210 that replaced it.

My dad had an early-production W210 E420 that at the time when he bought it new was the hot new thing along with the E39 540i. Except now that E39 especially in M Sport 6MT trim is a classic and nobody cares about the W210.

Pickup_man > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 12/10/2019 at 15:42

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I’ll start paying attention more, but yeah, apart from the Pathfinder name this is a vehicle completely unfamiliar to me.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > fintail 12/10/2019 at 15:42

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Gross

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo 12/10/2019 at 15:42

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No

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Textured Soy Protein 12/10/2019 at 15:45

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Tell that to the people spending 5 figures on 210 E55's. Sometimes $15-30k depending on condition and options. Almost all 124's at this point are roached out, even many 500e's. I still regularly service 210's that are loved by their owners.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 15:49

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Why limit to cars and trucks?? ... Because, BUFF, baby.... The ultimate outlive-your-successors story.

BarryDanger > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 15:53

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Maybe it’s where a I live... Maybe its the Radwood effect but I see way more C4 corvettes than C5s.

Also see more 3rd gen 4runners to 4th gen. 

Pickup_man > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 12/10/2019 at 15:55

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The only limit is your imagination. I don’t know much about plains. 

Pickup_man > BarryDanger 12/10/2019 at 15:59

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C4' s do seem a bit more common than C5's but I don’t see many C orvettes in general.

The 4Runner is one that I’m likely not in the right geographic location for, older vehicles tend to rust to oblivion here long before their drive trains give out. 

Thisismydisplayname > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 16:01

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Gen II Dakota’s ‘97-‘03 have outlived the Gen  IIIs.  Don’t see too many of thr uggo Days running around. 

fintail > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/10/2019 at 16:03

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I love your trigger point

Textured Soy Protein > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/10/2019 at 16:05

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I actually think the W 210 is kinda nice in its own way , having had plenty of hands-on experience with my dad’s old E420. W hile I don’t pay attention to the market for old AMGs like that I can see why people would pay good money for the W210 E55 since the later AMG cars went way more complex and forced induction.

Personally I’d rather have an M113 5.4 in a CLK55 than an E55 but I wouldn’t kick the E out of bed. 

Maybe I’m attributing too much to random internet commenters who all seem to prefer the 124 over the 210. 

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 16:16

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I see neither many Jellybean or 11-th gen F150s around here....it’s mostly the generation before both of those, or all the generations since here.

Pickup_man > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 12/10/2019 at 16:21

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That doesn’t surprise me, the OBS Fords are pretty durable trucks, I think the only reason I don’t see more of them here is that they rust out so bad that the become unsafe or not worth repairing. The Jellybeans seem to be a little more resistant to rust, and haven’t hit that point yet. 

shop-teacher > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 16:21

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Even in the rust belt, the 9th generation seems to have outlived both the 10th and the 11th generations. 10th gens rusted quite badly. When I do see one, it’s a total rot- box.

By the way, a friend of mine recently sent me a box of diecasts, and in it is a nice Matchbox 10th gen F-150. You know how much I love the way those look :D ... so I was wondering if you want it?

Pickup_man > Thisismydisplayname 12/10/2019 at 16:22

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That’s another good one, in fact I think I still see more first gen Dakotas than third gens, and maybe even the second gen. 

dieseldub > BarryDanger 12/10/2019 at 16:25

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C4s are cheap these days... plus there’s also the fact the C4s were in production for 13 years (1984-1996) , the C5s only about half that (1997-2005? Or was it 6?).

The C5's styling seemed to take a moment to grow on people, too.

Pickup_man > shop-teacher 12/10/2019 at 16:28

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I’ve noticed a bit of the opposite, not that the 10th gens are impervious to rust they seem to be a bit more resistant than the 9th gen from what I’ve seen. That and the fact that they are newer so they haven’t reached the same level of rot yet.

I would love another jellybean to display! If shipping isn’t a bother for you that is. 

dieseldub > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 16:28

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I just remember replacing lots of ball joints and tie rods on those jelly bean F150s in the early 2000s. Their suspensions did not last on Michigan roads.

The chassis of the following generation did seem to be much more robust, but as you mentioned, lots of engine issues.

And now I live where vehicles rarely rust. And it’s glorious. I get kind of depressed whenever I go back to visit Michigan and I see cars about 10 years old with rust holes in them and I just go “shit, those were basically new vehicles when I left, what the hell?!”

Time moves on, rust never stops.

facw > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 12/10/2019 at 16:29

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I don’t know how true that is. The B-58 and B-66 have come and gone since the B-52, but they weren’t really successors in the truest sense, they had somewhat different roles, even as strategic bombers. The Air Force does plan to have the B-52 outlive the B-1 and B-2 , but that hasn’t happened yet. In the B-1's case it’s a bit silly given that the B-1 has a much larger payload than the B-52, while also being cheaper to operate. The B-2 makes more sense as operating a small fleet of specialized bombers is expensive, though it of course will be replaced by the B-21 (stupid marketing number) rather than the B-52.

facw > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 16:32

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Since we’ve already had one plane, let’s add another:

The U-2 is still going strong, long after the SR-71 has been retired (twice).

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > facw 12/10/2019 at 16:36

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As of the current plan, the BUFF will outlive both BONE and B-2. It outlived the B47, and all the design studies (B70, for instance) since for a heavy bomber replacement. Also, B-57, B-45. And everything that was “contemporary” with it s entry into service.

It will likely be a design in service for over 100 years. The ultimate survivor design— mainly because the airframe so rugged and relatively adaptable to all the new systems fitted to it. B-66 and B-58 were too ‘bespoke’ to the missions of the time— they couldn’t be adapted to new mission profiles.

The flying dump truck, B-52?  Adaptable as hell.

Pickup_man > dieseldub 12/10/2019 at 16:38

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I think my ‘99 has only needed two sets* in it’s 215,000 mile life, which I’m not sure if that’s considered a lot? I’ve only had to do one set personally, I think dad may have done a set when he owned it.

Rust truly sucks, yet I can’t bring myself to leave here. Part of it is family, friends, and the fact that I’ve lived here my whole life so I don’t know any different , but despite some of the miserable times I really do love it here** .

*I’m not gonna count my questionable decision to buy the super cheap Chinese set that only lasted like a month, that’s on me.

**this is probably Stockholm syndrome 

facw > SBA Thanks You For All The Fish 12/10/2019 at 16:45

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The B-57 predates the B-52 (numbers not withstanding). The B-45, and B-47 as you would expect also predate the B-52.

shop-teacher > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 16:45

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No problem at all, shoot me an email to woodshop00@gmail.com

Pickup_man > shop-teacher 12/10/2019 at 17:04

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Sent! Thanks! 

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 17:39

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I recall that the 1967-1976 Dodge Dart/Plymouth Valiant typically outlived the Dodge Aspen/Plymouth Volare that came after... mainly due to rust and other quality problems.

Also, I still see the odd RWD T-body Chevette/Acadian from time to time while I never see the FWD T-body Pontiac Lemans/Passport Optima/Asuna SE that came after anymore.

Also... 1st gen Mustangs compared to the Mustang II. 

interstate366, now In The Industry > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 17:39

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I see a lot more S13 240SXs (and their JDM counterparts) than I do S14s. I also see R32 Skylines far more often than R31s, but that’s kind of an outlier because neither were sold here.

Future next gen S2000 owner > dieseldub 12/10/2019 at 17:49

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I remember way back only getting a year or two out of a car before seeing rust pot up somewhere. Michigan loves to salt their roads.

Captain of the Enterprise > dieseldub 12/10/2019 at 17:50

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Can confirm had to do tie rod ends 3 times on my 2001 Expedition in Michigan.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > Pickup_man 12/10/2019 at 17:54

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The Volvo 240 (My car sans bosch stuff)  literally outlived it’s predecessor. The 700 series ended production in 1992 and you could buy a 240 classic until 1993. I can see why they’re frigging great

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > BarryDanger 12/10/2019 at 18:53

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It’s because C4's are dirt cheap, and C5 owners still believe their cars are valuable. 

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Textured Soy Protein 12/10/2019 at 23:04

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I don’t think I know a single tech who prefers 124's to 210's. That’s gotta mean something right?

The big downfall of the 208 CLK is that the chassis is basically the same as a 202. Meaning it uses a steering gearbox rather than a rack. And in general it just isn’t as good. The 210 on the other hand uses  a rack and is a generally better built vehicle. The 210 is easy to improve with harder poly bushings and other normal suspension mods. The 202/208 take a lot more effort to get them to handle well with wider tires and more aggressive alignment angles. It's really easy to make them much worse with normal suspension mods.

Long_Voyager94 > Pickup_man 12/11/2019 at 07:16

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1987 -1998 Silverados have outlived the 99-02s
1991-1995 Caravan/Voyager have outlived the 96-00s

Pickup_man > Long_Voyager94 12/11/2019 at 09:16

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The GM’s are another one I’ve noticed, seems like the 90's trucks were just built to go forever. 

Thisismydisplayname > Pickup_man 12/11/2019 at 10:05

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Up here the first gens are few and far between. They’ve all been Chemically  “lightened” to the point there isn’t much sheetmetal left.  

Textured Soy Protein > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 12/11/2019 at 10:34

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My liking the 208 is purely due to looks, especially in AMG form . I feel like it’s the best looking of the 90s MBs with quad round front lights . The 210 feels more disjointed to me, but the facelift and AMG styling bits help it a lot.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Textured Soy Protein 12/11/2019 at 18:21

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Agreed on those points.