Stopping–or not stopping–for a school bus. How does it work?

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 11/11/2019 at 16:43 • Filed to: None

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It seems that there is a lack of understanding about this simple law. If there is no median, you have to stop. If there is a median, you don’t have to stop. Still, everybody stops on roads with medians. I suppose it’s better to err on the side of caution and stop on a divided street or road, but you don’t have to. AFAIK, this is also true of emergency vehicles.

NB: This is the law in Texas. Your state may vary.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 16:48

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I thought this was clear to everyone 

facw > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 16:55

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My experience is that people not stopping when they should is much more common than stopping when they shouldn’t.

Of course it’s generally good practice to avoid putting school bus stops in either of the second two scenarios, especially for younger students. Normally (though of course not always) , the bus can turn off the two lane road to make the drop in safer place without slowing down the route significantly.  

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 16:55

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For what it’s worth, in Illinois, all vehicles must stop on a 2 lane road.

But on a 4 lane road, only traffic moving the same direction as the bus are required to stop. Nothing to do with medians.

I come across this every morning on 4 lane roads near my house. A lot of people still stop when going the opposite direction- including me, I just looked this up.

Everywhere I see, the bus stops on 4 lane roads are *designed* to accommodate this - ie, there’s no reason why a child would be crossing the road.

Part of the confusion may be because it varies by state. 

Urambo Tauro > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 16:55

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Same here in MI. Traffic from b oth directions must stop, unless there is a physical obstruction separating oppos ing traffic. A wide center turn lane and/or painted line doesn’t cut it. There’ s gotta be a median or barrier of some sort in order for it to be considered safe for oncom ing traffic to pass by .

Cash Rewards > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 16:56

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We got a road that we pass busses on where it bounces between the middle and right scenarios depending on the spot. Its a mess

WilliamsSW > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 11/11/2019 at 16:57

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The law is different here in Illinois- see my comment.  I’ve never thought it was that clear. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 17:00

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It is the same in montana. 

ttyymmnn > WilliamsSW 11/11/2019 at 17:01

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Everywhere I see, the bus stops on 4 lane roads are *designed* to accommodate this - ie, there’s no reason why a child would be crossing the road.

This is an important consideration. There is a very large road of the second variety in the illustration, where the speed limit is 55. A school bus stops every morning to pick up kids from an apartment building, and all drivers are required to stop. There have been focused patrols here because cars coming in the opposite direction do not stop. However, there’s no way in the world kids would be required to cross this road to get to the bus. But the law is the law.

ttyymmnn > facw 11/11/2019 at 17:03

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And here in TX, even when drivers get cited for not stopping, they are getting out of the ticket more often than not.

More than half who fight $300 school bus stop-arm tickets are winning

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 17:08

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I spent 3 years in a very rural part of Oklahoma. When there was a funeral procession, cars on both sides of the road would pull over and stop as a sign of respect. They would do this even on the divided 4 lane highway.

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 17:08

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Regardless of what the law states, it would be really stupid to have children crossing a 4 lane road to catch the bus.

Also regardless of the law (and common sense) you never really know what a child might do. I’d prefer that our law mirrors the Texas law, and I keep very focused looking for kids around bus stops anyways, but people don’t have to stop here.

Emergency vehicles are a different story. You need a true barrier (ie the emergency vehicle can’t turn in front of you) to avoid stopping.  People are wayyyy worse about stopping for ambulances around here than school buses. 

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/11/2019 at 17:11

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I have never seen cars pull over for a funeral procession. Here in TX, being a motorcycle cop and escorting funeral processions is one of the most dangerous jobs there is. They fly past the procession to stop traffic at streets ahead of the column, and the motor officers leap frog each other as the cortege makes its way down the road. I can think of numerous instances where these officers have been injured or killed.

I already told my boys that I don’t want a parade when I die. I know the purpose is to get everybody to the cemetery at the same time. But I don’t want people risking their lives for me. If a few people are late, they can wait to dump dirt on me. That said, I’m more than likely going to get cremated. No point in my dead body taking up space on the Earth for eternity.

WilliamsSW > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/11/2019 at 17:12

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That’s one that varies by state IIRC.

In Illinois, oncoming traffic doesn’t have to stop —- but the procession gets treated as though it’s all 1 vehicle regardless of length. Ie, once the lead car goes through a stoplight, the entire rest of the procession has a “green light” and continues on.  

ttyymmnn > WilliamsSW 11/11/2019 at 17:13

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Yes, even with a median, I will slow to almost a stop just in case the vehicle needs to cross in front of me.

We also have a move over law in TX, as do many other states. I hardly ever see people do this, though. I’m surprised the cops don’t set up stings for this. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WilliamsSW 11/11/2019 at 17:13

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It definitely wasn’t the law. Just something they did in that area.

WilliamsSW > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/11/2019 at 17:16

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Ah, ok.  My comment actually is the law here.  The idea of removing it comes up every so often, but never gets much traction.  

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 17:16

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Yikes - yeah, that is dangerous.

I’d personally like a simple pine box. The thought of the worms having their way with me doesn’t bother me. Dust to dust...

Chuckles > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 17:17

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It was slightly different in NC. 4 lanes or less? Everybody must stop. 4 lanes plus a center turning lane, center median, or larger? Only stop if you're on the same side.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 17:18

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Speaking of Texas, is it still super-common on rural highways for folks to pull off and drive on the shoulder to let cars pass? Freaked me out the first time someone did that in front of me.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/11/2019 at 17:26

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Yup. It’s called the Texas pass, at least around here. I used to drive regularly between Austin and Abilene, and that was 95% rural US or state highway, mostly 70 mph. I would regularly pull over and drive the shoulder at 70 to let faster cars pass. And there is almost always a wave or flash of hazard lights to say “thanks.” That said, if there wasn’t a  wide enough shoulder, or if it was on a curve or a hill, I would not pull over. Only if there was a mile or so of sight line. 

Deal Killer - Powered by Focus > Urambo Tauro 11/11/2019 at 17:28

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Yeah, Ohio is different. To quote the Ohio revised code: “ Where a highway has been divided into four or more traffic lanes, a driver of a vehicle, streetcar, or trackless trolley need not stop for a school bus approaching from the opposite direction which has stopped..” I’m up in Michigan weekly, driving in Monroe County from Toledo. I have to remember MI law and stop even on four lane, undivided highways.

ttyymmnn > WilliamsSW 11/11/2019 at 17:31

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Many years ago I drove a delivery van for an advertising agency. I got stopped by a very long funeral procession, and I definitely did not have time for that. So, when there was a gap, I turned on my headlights and got in line. Probably could have gotten a ticket for it.  I wouldn’t do it now. Hell, I was about 18 years old at the time and thought I was being clever.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 17:33

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It’s very polite, but man, it seems crazy dangerous to me. I guess the shoulders in TX are pretty consistently good (made with this in mind?), but even still, your odds of picking up a nail or whatever have to go way up when you get over there.

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/11/2019 at 17:36

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Yes, most of the shoulders are well paved and as wide as the lane. And yes, you are more likely to drive through clag and whatnot. I never had any problems, though. I’ve seen 18 wheelers pull over too, though not as often, and usually at slower speeds.

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 17:43

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I’m not aware of that being a law here. They try to encourage it, but it can be difficult depending on traffic conditions.

That said, if you’ve ever changed a tire on the shoulder of an interstate highway (twice for me, once in the rain), it’s a pretty scary experience when a semi passes you at 65 mph, or even a car.   I do my best to give room - at a bare minimum, move to the edge of the lane.  

Urambo Tauro > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus 11/11/2019 at 17:43

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I don’t really begrudge my state’s version all that much, but I think I like your state’s version a little better. It’s more consistent with other laws we have regarding driving near construction workers and emergency vehicles, where one empty lane-width is considered enough of a  safety margin.

ttyymmnn > WilliamsSW 11/11/2019 at 17:45

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By law (here), if you can’t pull over, you have to reduce speed to 20 under the limit. I’d rather drive slowly  on a flat to a safe place than change a tire on the highway. Too many stories of people getting killed.

Deal Killer - Powered by Focus > Urambo Tauro 11/11/2019 at 17:46

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Really, any bus driver dropping kids off on the other side of a 3+ lane roadway should be fired.

WilliamsSW > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 17:53

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I was younger and dumber - and in both cases was miles from an exit.  Once on I65 around Remington Indiana, once on 294 just after I got on at Willow Road.  Both blowouts that would never have made it off the highway without destroying the wheel. 

Jason Spears > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 17:55

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Thank you. Right about the time you posted this I was getting honked at by someone for stopping for an oncoming bus on a multi-lane, after which I explained to my son who was in the car why they were wrong.

Urambo Tauro > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus 11/11/2019 at 17:59

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Friend of mine used to be a school bus driver, and many of the drivers there would try to help keep traffic moving by only turning on the hazard lamps (not the stop sign/lights) when stopping on a busy highway. Of course they made sure that n o kids were cros sing the road during those stops .

facw > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 19:01

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My only problem with the move over laws is that I don’t see any reason they should be limited to just emergency vehicles. Everyone deserves that caution.

ttyymmnn > facw 11/11/2019 at 19:06

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The TX law was recently expanded to utility trucks. I agree with you, and I move over for anybody .

benn454 > WilliamsSW 11/11/2019 at 19:46

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Ehhhhh, what’s worth more, though? The wheel or your life? Wheels can be replaced.

I used to be an on-call mechanic for a trucking company. I had to work on my fair share of vehicles on the side of the interstate and had a few close calls . Never again.

Thisismydisplayname > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 20:39

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So Michigan follows these rules, but Ohio does not. I remember not having to stop for busses on a 4 lane road, but that was Ohio.

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Thisismydisplayname > ttyymmnn 11/11/2019 at 20:46

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I had an instance in Georgia that I ended up driving into a funeral procession by mistake. The sheriff had his car half ass blocking the road, but I thought there was some incident on the other side, so I drove Around his car and found myself in a procession. I turned off at the nearest turn once I realized. Then about 5 minutes later and probably 2-3 miles down the road, here comes the sheriff and he was pretty pissed. Gave me a bit of a tongue lashing and I wanted to tell him to learn how to block traffic, but of course I didn’t.  Michigan plates in rural GA, yeah, I went the super respectful route.  Much easier that way.  I apologized for my error and we were on our way.  Good times indeed.      

ttyymmnn > Thisismydisplayname 11/11/2019 at 21:12

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My wife and I were driving on the interstate once somewhere (she was at the wheel) and we were passing an onramp just as cop with lights on was coming onto the highway at the head of a procession.  I said, “GO GO GO!” to get in front of him, which she did. Otherwise, we would have been stuck for god knows how long, and then stuck behind the procession itself. Like I said, don’t have a parade for me when I die. 

ttyymmnn > Thisismydisplayname 11/11/2019 at 21:15

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Like WilliamsSW said, there should be no expectation for kids to cross a road the big. Still, I’m kind of surprised they allow that. It never occurred to me to check out the laws for school buses in every state I drive through. Better to stop and be safe, I suppose, but then you might get rear-ended by a local.