A pretty scathing take on the 737 MAX saga

"MrSnrub" (sv100)
10/28/2019 at 15:45 • Filed to: None

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No one who knows anything about anything believes Boeing is anywhere close to being out of the woods, and some who know a lot think the road ahead could lead to bankruptcy court.

As the youths like to say these days, big oof. Not sure if it’s been posted here before but it’s good reading

DISCUSSION (19)

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > MrSnrub
10/28/2019 at 16:06

A pretty scathing take on not just Boeing, but capitalism as a whole.

This is not sustainable. Without a massive overhaul, we are going to crash. Hard.

Spanfeller is a twat > MrSnrub
10/28/2019 at 16:16

I don’t trust NR since the bluexit post they made,,, but they do make a point about how Boeing’s culture changed after the Mcdonell Douglas deal.

First time I agreed with HamNo and I didn’t know for a few months

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Spanfeller is a twat
10/28/2019 at 16:21

Bluexit? And agreeing with HamNo about what? If you don’t mid elaborating???

HammerheadFistpunch > MrSnrub
10/28/2019 at 16:21

Shortcuts + high stakes = screwed. Just ask VW.

Spanfeller is a twat > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
10/28/2019 at 16:27

When I read this I thought of every single word in this .

MrSnrub > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
10/28/2019 at 16:29

Stock buybacks in particular just sound like a massive scam. The amount of money that’ s poured into them instead of, like, making things is staggering. We are headed for a wall eventually without a doubt

MrSnrub > Spanfeller is a twat
10/28/2019 at 16:34

No outlet is free from the occasional dumb take , though in that case I assumed it was written in jest

Spanfeller is a twat > MrSnrub
10/28/2019 at 16:36

certainly.

Well, lets see what happens to boeing. But nothing out there is looking good for them.

ttyymmnn > MrSnrub
10/28/2019 at 16:39

NYT had an article the other day about how Boeing helped directly orchestrate language in a new law that removed even more FAA oversight in their operations. But this is the sort of deregulation/lack of oversight that the GOP has been advocating for years. Don’t worry, they say, the industries will police themselves. Well, we see where we are now with that.

According to this piece , Boeing considered making changes to MCAS before the MAX entered service, but decided not to. They said that pilots should react to any problems within three seconds, the same as they would with runaway trim. But this was not runaway trim, nor did it act like that with its repeated activations. As it was, it took the Lion Air pilots 11 seconds to react, and they had no idea that MCAS even existed.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > MrSnrub
10/28/2019 at 16:43

They used to be illegal as hell. Until the Great Reagan Robbery changed the rules.

Exactly. Guess where almost the entirety of that massive supposedly ‘middle class’ tax cut went?

Fuckers. Eat the Rich.

Future next gen S2000 owner > MrSnrub
10/28/2019 at 16:45

Shortsighted decision making seems to be the issue with a lot of things.

For Sweden > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
10/28/2019 at 16:50

Not-capitalism has a pretty bad aviation safety record!

fintail > MrSnrub
10/28/2019 at 17:21

This is an especially gory version of the public sacrifice for private profit ideal that defines the current order.

coqui70 > MrSnrub
10/28/2019 at 21:36

The sad part ... Boeing engineers used to be smarter than this. They’re fixing the wrong problem! All these electronic aids actually hinder passenger safety when they create cognitive overload.

Simply put the engines on top of the wing and move them back to restore balance.

OR ... come up with a new design that one is 50 years old!

MrSnrub > coqui70
10/28/2019 at 22:05

Sounds like more of a management problem that an engineering problem though. Pointy haired business school ghouls coming in and thinking they can strip the place to the bone because planes are “commodities” now.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > MrSnrub
11/01/2019 at 21:56

Former electronics/controls/aerospace guy here.

I’m still sorta surprised nobody has pointed out an obvious “cost cutting” on this POS program... which is indicative of how bad the problem is. There’s been a LOT written about the TWO “trim cutout switches” that the Runaway Trim Procedure Boeing CEO Dickwad said should have resolved the issue... But nobody has ever asked why there are TWO switches when there’s only ONE jackscrew motor to drive and wiring diagram clearly shows only a single circuit path? So, why TWO switches?

Turns out back in the Classic 737 there were redundant jackscrew motors and to revert to completely manual trim-setting mode you had to cut power to TWO motors via TWO circuit paths. So, there’s always been two switches. As it turns out, in this instance having TWO motors (one for Autospeed and MCAS, the other for manual electric trims) would have been damn handy... As the poor pilots could have turned HAL9000 all the way off and had a second motor drive to re-trim to the proper nose-up attitude.

A Pity that The K-mart Era Boeing-Run-By-Bean-Counters decided that they didn’t NEED two jackscrew motors so they cost-reduced them out of the design. But “to avoid retraining under the 1967 Type Certificate” they still make you flip TWO switches.

It’s sadly hilarious how much stupid-cost-cutting Boeing did, apparently without needing any re-training, even as they claim it’s the same design.

Boeing deserves all this grief. And, that asshat CEO needs to go. Now.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > Spanfeller is a twat
11/01/2019 at 21:59

Stock market still sorta thinks they’ll get through the knot hole, then ship 1000 planes (already built) in a year and book a $100 Billion quarter....

My hope is that the flying public says Fuk No, and Boeing has these choices:

1) back convert them to high-demand 700/800 NG planes with previous engines
2) add the full support for THREE AoA sensors, re-do the flight controls to mirror 787 modern control systems and re-certify OR...

3) Turn the fucking things into beer cans and start over.

SBA Thanks You For All The Fish > HammerheadFistpunch
11/01/2019 at 22:00

There are a lot of parallels— VW originally tried to blame a couple of “rogue” engineers. Boeing tried to blame “bad pilot training”.

It’s just terrible corporate ethics.

RacinBob > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable)
11/03/2019 at 01:15

You know, if they keep the money in the corporation and not do buybacks , somebody ends up showing up to buy them for the money in their treasury... . These companies don’t really have a choice but to keep the cupboard’s bare otherwise the raiders will come in.