Camp Vehicle Search, Part the Third

"LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com" (limitedtimeonly)
10/16/2019 at 13:36 • Filed to: I want to be an Overlander but let's get real, Subaru Outback, 2020 Subaru Outback

Okay, since my last post, here is a summary of happenings in my car search:

Considered a 2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk with the 5.7L V8

Considered a 2019 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited

Settled into dithering between the 2020 Subaru Outback Onyx XT and Limited XT .

More Painfully Long Explanation

Because I’m hung up on the idea that I need more offroad capability, I was (and frankly, kind of still am) concerned about the approach angle on the 2020 Subaru Outback. So, although !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , I was ready to consider the Jeep Grand Cherokee.

The Grand Cherokee comes with reliability concerns. But the overall package seems quite good, and the optional 5.7L V8 on the Trailhawk gets it to a speedy 0-60 mph time. I did not end up test driving it, but having ridden in my neighbors I imagine that it performs well, and the interior space is good, probably about as good as the Outback.

But the more I thought about it, the less I liked the fuel economy or lack thereof, and an honest look at what I was likely to do with the vehicle went the same way as when I ruled out the 4Runner: the extra cost compared to a similarly equipped Outback was for extra capability that I would likely never ever use.

I then was hung up on the lack of physical buttons on the 2020 Outback for the HVAC. I looked at the 2019 Outback and saw that the HVAC buttons were all physical. Hurrah! And I could get a 3.6L flat six engine that would compete with the new turbo four.

But, the 2019 had (and still has, as far as I can tell) a tendency to have glitches freeze up or otherwise interfere with the infotainment screen. And that 3.6L engine gets about 10% worse fuel economy for similar performance when compared to the 2.4L turbo in the new car. People familiar with both claimed that the new seats are better and the new car has a better ride, which should be expected.

Plus, I realized that the only thing that I adjusted without looking was the temperature setting, and the 2020 has physical controls for this. Everything else I look down for, so the lack of physical buttons except for temperature really shouldn’t affect me, meaning that this should not be an objection for me.

So, now I’m pretty settled on getting a 2020 Subaru Outback

That’s right, I seem to have made a decision on my new family adventure vehicle. Appearances can be deceiving.

Now I’m dithering between the Onyx XT and the Limited XT . And when to actually make the purchase.

Pros for the Onyx XT :

Can get it without sunroof or navigation

Has extra off-road AWD setting

Has full-size spare

Is cheaper than the Limited XL

Cons for the Onyx XT :

Has StarTex (urethane, wet suit-like) upholstery that seemed to make me sweaty and which I’m hearing may actually stain easily, counter-intuitively

Lacks driver’s seat memory, which is a big deal since this car will switch between me and my wife driving a lot

Pros for the Limited XT :

Has driver’s seat memory

Has leather upholstery, which we are accustomed to

Has a better sound system, although the one in the Onyx seemed just fine

Cons for the Limited XT :

Has only a thinner temporary spare tire (probably not a big deal)

Only normal and off-road settings for the AWD (probably not a big deal)

Has “DriverSense” monitoring that warns the driver if distracted or sleepy, and apparently may be overly sensitive

Has adaptive lighting that turns with the car (although I like this on my GTI, it doesn’t make an enormous difference, and the units are much more expensive to replace, plus I plan to add a bit of auxiliary lighting anyway)

Is about 10% more expensive than the Onyx XT

How much longer will I bother you about this shopping?

Well, I think that I’m going to test out the Onyx XT again with an eye toward my feeling about the upholstery, although the weather has finally cooled off a bit here in North Carolina, so that may be a bit difficult.

And I need to keep considering how much the idea of spending more on the Limited XL and ending up with the DriverSense stuff annoys me.

But the big hesitation is that they are just starting to build up inventory, so I’m inclined to delay maybe until November or possibly December to get a chance at a better deal.

At least I’ve exhausted all other possibilities that I would consider and have narrowed it down this far (not without minor reservations, though). Exhausted is how my wife feels about hearing about this. Hopefully you all are at least entertained!

[Edit] I should add that one discussion with my wife was that we might get the Outback, beat it up for a few years, then see if switching to a redesigned 4Runner would be a good thing. Supposed to happen in 2022, and if it’s a better deal or I keep getting the Outback hung up on stuff, then we’ll switch cars, yet again.

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DISCUSSION (25)

and 100 more > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 13:54

In regards to the Grand Cherokee...

The 3.6L Pentastar engine is notoriously reliable, if you can live with less power (still just shy of 300hp, so not too shabby), and returns decent fuel economy, considering you’re pushing 4,500 lbs. 4WD is available with this engine as well. The Trailhawk is great and wonderful, but not the only off-roadable option.

Also, if you find that the GC is a bit small, look into a similar- vintage D urango... same powertrains, 4WD available, and third row (or extra cargo room, which allows you to keep more stuff off the roof and improve fuel economy).

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > and 100 more
10/16/2019 at 13:58

Yeah, I’m not super worried about the Jeep reliability, although it is a concern. And, yes, the 3.6L V6 is supposed to be good and return decent fuel economy, but still not a match for the Outback with the turbo, and the Jeep would also be slower .

I do feel like I’d want the Trailhawk for the smart AWD to match the others I’ve been considering.

The Durango is out based on my wife ruling out 3 row vehicles (regardless of other capabilities).

SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 14:12

How much deviation in fuel economy exists between the Grand Cherokee and Outback? Comparing the 3.6R to the 5.7L V8 and 2.4T to 3.6PS? Also, have you considered the VM Motiri diesel option of the Grand Cherokee? I knew an owner of one who swore by it for the power and fuel economy.

and 100 more > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 14:13

F ai r enough.

I’ll keep watching to see which way you go! Happy hunting!

vicali > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 14:18

You lost me at not 4runner ...

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > vicali
10/16/2019 at 14:26

LOL, I understand, I was seduced into advocating for this change based on looking at 4Runner builds. But they are slow, not agile, and expensive when similarly equipped.

I’ll have to add to the post that the wife and I agreed that we might get the Outback, beat it up for a few years, then see if switching to a redesigned 4Runner would be a good thing.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja
10/16/2019 at 14:34

Furansu, the 2020 turbo Outback is supposed to get 26 MPG combined, while the JGC 3.6L V6 is supposed to get 21 MPG combined, and the JGC 5.7L V8 is supposed to get 17 MPG combined.

Apparently the diesel in the JGC was a one year offering, but I’m not too inclined toward a diesel due to the fuel cost and typically extra cost of purchase. It doesn’t appeared to be offered in 2019 with the Trailhawk package.

vicali > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 14:52

Hmm, Similarly equipped might be a relative term.. same with slow, not agile, and expensive ..

Sooty here is a relatively mild build; RTT, fridge, solar, and some bumpers ; 4 years/ 125,000 miles/ 23 countries later still ready for adventure..

https://overlandtheamericas.com/staff/sooty/

Kinja'd!!!

Can you bomb forest roads in a S ubaru? yes. Can you daily an Expo rig? yep. Can you be a owner Jeep? probably (heeeyo!)

SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 14:55

Ah ok — pretty significant. I didn’t realize the diesel was a one-year only deal, shame. I liked the idea of it in an SUV/truck, but not much for them anywhere else.

Given the choices, I’d be looking at a 5.7L if going with th e Cherokee. Seems the Subaru makes a better case for itself overall though.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > vicali
10/16/2019 at 15:01

NICE rig. Jealous.

But I would not use any of that capability in the foreseeable future.

Yeah, I realize that “similarly equipped” is a dangerous term to throw around, granting that the 4Runner is offering more off-road capability, but docking it for not offering the conveniences that we have come to expect in the $35k-$40k price range. To match the Outback Onyx XT conveniences at MSRP of $35k we would have to get a Limited 4Runner at $49k.

The acceleration of the 4Runner was something we could get used to . . . but why should we?

On my test route the tight road curve could be taken uncomfortably in a 4Runner at 35-40 mph, while the Outback took it comfortably at 45 mph, so that is what I mean by agility.

Nothing > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 15:19

Wait...you need fast and handling? For a camping rig? Time for the AMG G 63 test drive (it’s fast, but I’m not sure about the handling). I guess the expensive part comes into play there, though. Haha.

The Outback was on my list to test drive, but I never did. Once I visited the Alltrack and TourX, I decided car like wagon wasn’t what I wanted at the time. Come to think of it, I think the last Subaru I was ever in was an old Legacy Outback sedan.

19JRC99 > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 15:20

The regular Cherokees are actually pretty nice.

someoneatacura > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 15:22

I’m not sure on your time frame, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the Passport sees an update in a year or so. Might not add that passenger lumbar like you want, but it’ll definitely update the interior. Brakes seem to be getting lots of updates on Honda/Acura products lately, new pad numbers and updated rotors, which might help with your p edal feel (although that generation/chassis has had a pretty soft pedal since the 2014 MDX came out, and I’m not sure if the Passport saw any updates ). If I was looking at long term costs, I would still put the Passport over the O utback.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Nothing
10/16/2019 at 15:32

Wait...you need fast and handling? For a camping rig?

What, I can’t want everything? Isn’t that what we do here?

HammerheadFistpunch > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 15:38

I agree with and 100 more in the sweetspot in the range is the 3.6

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > someoneatacura
10/16/2019 at 15:38

We’re not in a big rush, but I’ve already dented my GTI during a forest trip and been limited on gear that could fit for a camping trip , and I’d like to upgrade sooner rather than later. Especially since my wife is on board, no idea how long that would last. So, next month or two.

Interesting perspective on the Passport brakes and possible upgrades. I would think it would change as the Pilot changes, which should be soon-ish, but they only just introduced it this year, so I’m assuming that they actually won’t change it for a few years.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > 19JRC99
10/16/2019 at 15:42

I had neighbors with a pair of new Cherokees. They liked them until the brand new transmission stranded the wife on a dark highway in the middle of the night. I assumed that FCA has worked out the bugs. Right?

But also the Cherokee seems just a bit small, although close. I tried to talk my wife into considering the RAV4 Adventure, but she did not like that. And she might remember our neighbors’ experience with the Cherokee.

vicali > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 15:46

True, fastest around a corner is a measure- add some snow, some camber, a cross-ditch in the dark, and another 30 miles of dark unkown backroads to the nearest streetlight and your choice might be different.

We take our Forester out a ton; this is half way through a 400km rally;

Kinja'd!!!

It does great and is easy to drive in town, carries kids to and from anywhere, and has been very reliable ( .. please EJ25 gods ) and goes around corners fast enough to make my son barf, lol..

But when the fishing lake is at the end of this road it poses a problem ;

Kinja'd!!!

Can we make it through? yep, carefully, in the dry, and not in a hurry.. but are those clouds in the sky? Is it going to rain? how much farther is it? how many more spots like this? Better? W orse? Who knows..

Would the truck make it? The truck is already at the camp catching fish and sitting by the fire.. and thinking about going to other fun spots too;

Kinja'd!!!

19JRC99 > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 15:48

I would hope so. I’ve only driven them around the lot when new/ certified pre owned, so unfortunately I can’t comment on the long term.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > vicali
10/16/2019 at 15:57

If I find myself struggling to get somewhere that I absolutely want to go more than a few times, then I’ll feel like the extra capability of a Grand Cherokee or 4Runner might be worth it. By that time maybe both will have been redesigned.

But so far I can’t think of many examples that were cases where I couldn’t simply park a bit further away and have a slightly longer hike. Or where I was on my own . . . and I’ve learned that one shouldn’t take the risks of getting stuck without another vehicle around to help with extraction or at least spotting , right? Time will tell. If I regret my choice in time, then I’ll have to pay the price to correct my error, but past experience indicates that it’ll be fine.

Nothing > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 16:10

But of course!

When you stomp on the 4Runner it makes a bunch of noises that sound like it should be fast, at least. The stock SR5 suspension was way too soft, I know the Off Road uses the same shocks, so minus the KDSS, it’d be the same ride. The suspension I put on, I like much better, but I would put it in the 2% more agile than stock category, which is then offset by the lift making it 5% less agile. Regardless, nobody will accuse the 4Runner of being a handler.

someoneatacura > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/16/2019 at 16:26

Honda has been sort of breaking from their normal update cycle a bit. Since the Pilot and Passport share a lot of their underpinnings, they might do them both at the same time (The Pilot has a better infotainment setup than the Passport, so I would expect that to be updated pretty quickly). The nice thing about buying in the hottest market is that manufactures won’t let the interfaces age for to long, as they want to stay as competitive as possible. I’m in the market for a PHEV SUV, or a Hybrid at the minimum, so I’m not rushing to get out of my RDX. I won’t buy anything but a Honda or Toyota product, which means a fair bit of waiting (Older model Toyota Hybrid SUVs don’t have Apple Car Play, so I’m not interested in them). There has been sightings of a Pilot PHEV out testing, so I’m hoping that drops for the 2021 model year.

Dusty Ventures > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/17/2019 at 18:06

I wish my 08 XT got that kind of economy

SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com
10/18/2019 at 02:23

Jjust watched Doug DeMuro’s review of the 2020 Outback and I get it now. Looks like a great family hauler opti0n with a nice interior. I am strongly put off by the large front overhang and HVAC controls buried in the Infotainment, but everything else about it is pretty damn nice.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > SlideshowOhNO - Fixit Union, Chapter of Kinja
10/18/2019 at 07:04

I hear you. That front overhang still makes my mind wander to the JGC instead.

The HVAC is its own dedicated section of the touchscreen, with its own processor, so it will be okay, even if it isn’t my preference. Bu t one does have to go past the default screen to get to seat warmers. Good thing I live in the south, so that is only an issue for a couple of months per year.