Back spasms - psoas muscle

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 10/14/2019 at 10:20 • Filed to: None

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Anyone else here dealt with this? This is the 3rd or 4th time it’s gotten really bad for me (a couple times in the past I’ve had to get muscle relaxers and then go through a long treatment period with a chiropractor). It’s been tight for a few weeks, and then I went bowling last night — clearly a bad idea — and I barely made it out of bed this morning. Had to have my wife tie my shoes... I know the main causes (I sit way too much at work (and in the car, and at home), and am a natural side-sleeper, and have also strained this muscle badly several times in the past); I have been doing my best to stretch a lot more regularly, but clearly something needs to change.

If any of you have suffered from this, and have a good path forward (treatment, stretches and exercises) for me to get back to good physical function from here and then stay that way , I’d really appreciate it.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Tripper > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 10:27

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I haven’t encountered that specific kind of pain but I sit all day and I’m a runner and have had multiple knee and back issues. I see a Chiropractor (even though I think he is a quack) but Yoga has helped the most. I try to not to take medicine beyond ibuprofen unless the pain is really bad. First of all those muscle relaxers put me OUT and second of all I’m just a little weary of habit forming drugs as it generally means that I will like the experience.

If you’re doing PT I’d ask them / your doc first but it’s been great for my back and hips. Great for your noggin too if you find a quiet  type of place.  

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 10:30

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I do a few basic yoga moves for this,mainly downward dog, cat-cow, childs pose and cobra. It seems to work, also core strength and hamstring stretches are critical to keeping stress off your lower back. I still get a back spasim about once a year then I start doing my stretches again and it feels better. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/14/2019 at 10:40

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Thanks, I’ve been doing a lot of cobra, child’s pose, and one where I fold one leg under me and push up to stretch my glute. Definitely need to get much more regular, morning and night. And I know I need to do some real strengthening exercises as well. That sucks that you still get one once a year...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tripper 10/14/2019 at 10:42

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Thanks. I have been stretching more (not a regular as I should), but I really need to just make yoga a part of my daily schedule, however challenging it might be to fit in some days.

nermal > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 10:47

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It’s the same usual suspects - Don’t sit so long. Don’t sit with poor posture. Lose weight. Exercise more & get stronger in the core. Stretch.

66P1800inpieces > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 10:50

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Yes. Was trying to get in better shape and started working out with my wife using YouTube videos. I was doing a simple exercise and must not have bent my knees or something bc I felt that muscle and the next day I could barely get around. Went to Chiro, helped a little because he uses a muscle simulator (I think like TEMS) but stretches similar to those in the pictorial posted above have been working great. I can do them in 4-5 mins before sleep. I should probably start doing them when I get up.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > nermal 10/14/2019 at 10:51

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Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

Now the doing of it.

66P1800inpieces > Tripper 10/14/2019 at 10:51

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So I am guessing you are addicted to running. It seems there is a rush or something associated with that bc I know a couple of people who have joint issues from running and just push through it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 10:51

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Chiropractor. Regular, gentle workouts that strengthen the core. I’ve dealt with all that you describe and at 55, now, with back adjustments -- that I now apply to myself several times a day -- and regular workouts, I’ve never been better.

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 10:52

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My back doesn’t bother me that bad, but sometimes can give me issues. When it does I’ve found planks and/or push ups and the arm/leg raise have helped. They are nice exercises since they don’t take a lot of time and no equipment is necessary.

66P1800inpieces > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 10:53

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I use a number of those stretches. Be careful with the spine twist ones until you are a bit better. I find it aggravated the issue while I was still recovering but was good once I eased into it after a couple of weeks of feeling better. 

nermal > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 10:54

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The self discipline part is always the hardest. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 10:56

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Being desk bound at work is probably the worst thing for my back. I try to do things at home that are more physical. An upright desk might help but I have not bothered to get one yet. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 10/14/2019 at 11:15

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I’ve almost bought a standing desk in the past, but there are issues with that as well. I guess if you just switch every half hour, it’d be better.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > nermal 10/14/2019 at 11:15

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#TrueFacts

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > 66P1800inpieces 10/14/2019 at 11:18

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Glad you’re on the mend. Hope you never have to go through it again (but from what I’ve heard you’re much more susceptible after it happens).

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 10/14/2019 at 11:20

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Thanks - will have to try this once I’m more mobile.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/14/2019 at 11:23

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Thanks. 41 here - I clearly need to make stretches and workouts a regular part of my day, prioritizing it regardless of how busy I get chasing 3 kids around + everything else.

Tripper > 66P1800inpieces 10/14/2019 at 11:32

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Lol, yeah. I fucking hate running, but I need it haha. It just feels so good afterward.

Most of the time I just push through it. I’ll take a break if it’s really bad for a week or so, but I’ll swim or do something else.

Tripper > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 11:33

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I actually only go to yoga once a month or so now. I’ve taken 5-6 poses and wrapped them into my pre- run stretch routine. I’ll also do that when I wake up/before bed if it’s particularly bad.

VincentMalamute-Kim > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 11:49

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one where I fold one leg under me and push up to stretch my glute

I know that one! It’s good for piriformis syndrome. Small muscle just medial to the lower end of the psoas major in your diagram.

I didn’t know psoas syndrome was a thing. It’s a very large muscle (at least it is in younger and active people ).

Khalbali > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 12:09

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Can’t really help, sorry, but thank you for posting that article I feel like that might be my issue as well, a lot of it sounded like me just on the less severe end of the spectrum, but I’ve never seen a doctor ab out it because American healthcare system. I do tend to sleep on my side in the fetal position though so that worries me, side sleeping just also helps my undiagnosed sleep a so I’m screwed either way. Thanks Obama!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Khalbali 10/14/2019 at 12:31

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Sure thing. Definitely do what you can to prevent it from ever spasming!

I think the thick memory foam topper that we’d been using for quite a while (until recently) exasperated my issue as well.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VincentMalamute-Kim 10/14/2019 at 12:33

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I’m clearly not young or active enough anymore, and really need to get my psoas back into shape!

Khalbali > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 12:37

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Yeah our mattress is pretty firm memory foam, although incidentally I did just order a pillow top topper that should be arriving today, so hopefully that helps. But I trained myself to sleep on my side to help my breathing and now that it’s getting colder I’ve been curling up more so I’m sure that’s not helping. I mostly just get pain standing up sometimes like the article said, I’ll get like halfway up and then just get stuck for a couple seconds before I can get up straight, but I have a pretty physical job and I’ve never had issues carrying weight or anything. I do drive a lot  too, but I come home most days and spend at least an hour on a heating pad.

whatisthatsound > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 12:44

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This won't help you whatsoever, but when I went to the Bodies exhibit with a doctor he said that if you have to become a cannibal, that's what would be the most tender and delicious. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Khalbali 10/14/2019 at 12:47

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Take care of yourself!

If your back issue is the same as mine, the added softness may actually make things worse, unfortunately, but if you have to sleep on your side for apnea , I’m not sure what advice to give you.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > whatisthatsound 10/14/2019 at 12:50

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LOL - backstrap/loin...

I’ve seen it as well. Pretty wild, especially the circulatory and nervous system stuff.

dumpsterfire! > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 13:12

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I tell my patients that bed rest for back pain is as outdated as doctors smoking cigarettes in the exam rooms. Keep walking. The best ways t o loosen up back and core muscles is walking, and not doing anything stupid.

Sovande > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 13:38

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I have the same thing. I have tried everything and the only things that help are muscle relaxers and indica dominant strains.

If it’s spasming, try lying on the floor with your back flat and your legs supported by a chair or ottoman (legs bent at the knees to keep your hips down). This should take the weight/strain off your back.

Good luck! 

RallyWrench > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 14:25

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Shit, sorry to hear. I sympathize, I’ve battled back problems for almost 15 years, and ultimately had surgery for a blown disc pinching nerves . Poor career choice and a tendency to crash bicycles into mountains will do that.

Like you, I tend to side sleep, though I’ve been trying to train myself otherwise . If on your side, I’ve found it useful to get a firm pillow to put between the legs, it straightens your hips and keeps them more parallel and in line with the spine . If on your back, use that same pillow under your knees to relieve tension on the lower back. Also, yoga stretches are really helpful. Not actual yoga, although that would probably help, but just a few easy stretches, especially when I start to feel the first twinge of pain or tightness . A couple in particular are (googles quickly because hell if I know yoga names...) “Childs pose” and “Cat”.

I like to do this Cat/Cow one, then bring it back into the “Child’s pose” and hold it.

The above, to this:

Also, laying on the floor on your back with one or both legs elevated for long periods really helps (like with your butt right up against a couch or chair, thighs vertical, calves resting on the furniture), does alternating pulling your knees to your chest with the other leg extended.

Do you carry your wallet in your back pocket? Even that can cause tweaks if you sit on it . Standing at work instead of sitting has been good for me, too. And I changed how I get in and out of cars, especially low ones. A good relationship with a chiropractor you like helps (if insurance will help with it). And stay active. And, and, and...

Of course, some of that is easier said than done ... A s you say, taking care of yourself is hard when the demands of parenting and work conspire to take all your time. The first thing to go is personal wellness. Hope you feel better soon and this doesn’t happen again!

Textured Soy Protein > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 14:33

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So, there could be one of two sorta-opposite issues going on here. Either your hip flexors (including psoas) are tight and need to be stretched, or they’re weak which is causing the tightness in other muscle groups and need to be strengthened. Or both. Pay no mind to the clickbait title, this is a good explanation otherwise.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 10/14/2019 at 14:53

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Thanks for this . The massage therapist I went to today think it’s actually not psoas, but upper glute, so you’re probably on point that it’s weak. She was really knowledgeable and helpful. I have a lot of work to do.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VincentMalamute-Kim 10/14/2019 at 14:55

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The massage therapist I went to today thinks it’s not psoas, but actually upper glute, maybe piriformis - need to look more into it.

Textured Soy Protein > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 15:16

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One more video to check out then:

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 10/14/2019 at 15:28

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Thanks! I can definitely put my thumb right on it, but I also get some pain deep inside my glute, so not sure if this is it, but I’ll give this stretch a shot.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > RallyWrench 10/14/2019 at 15:36

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Thanks for all this. Definitely going to be sleeping on my back with a pillow under my knees from here out, and doing my stretches much more religiously, and, and, and...

Hoping that the memory of the pain will stay fresh and motivating when the current acute physical discomfort wear off.

VincentMalamute-Kim > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 19:17

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You’d be amazed at the difference in the size of the psoas in a young active person vs an elderly non-active person. Hopefully yours is the former.

VincentMalamute-Kim > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 19:20

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I’m not a orthopedist/physical therapist but I do know too much sitting is a cause of piriformis syndrome. Just hadn’t heard of the psoas causing problems.

There’s a bunch of piriformis stretches. If your stretch with the leg folded under helps the symptoms, maybe that suggests that it is piriformis rather than the others.

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 19:31

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So to preface this, my wife is in med school learning all this as we speak this is what she sent me. She has done similar treatments to me with amazing success. Anyway, her on from here,

You’ll need another person for this treatment, and it seems a little weird, but I promise it will help. First, your helper will want to find whats called a “tenderpoint”. To start, lie on your back. Have your wife/friend/partner try to locate your tenderpoint. for the psoas it should be about 2/3 between your ASIS (the bone on your hips that sticks upward when your laying on your back) (side note: the ASIS is not your iliac crest, the top of the hip bone. If you’re having trouble, find the top of your hips and then feel down till you find the sticky up point. Thats ASIS. Then move about 2/3 of the way towards your belly button. Somewhere in there should be a tenderpoint. When you find it, you’ll want to jump off the floor. it will be TENDER.

Have your helper keep their finger there. Now, have them bend your knees to 110 degrees, (pull them up to your chest). DONT LET GO OF THAT TENDERPOINT. They can rest your legs on their knee to make it easier. The tenderpoint should get less tender. If not, try moving the knees around a little bit. They can pull your legs towards them (rolling you a little bit). Once that tenderpoint isn’t very tender anymore, stay in that position for a bit. 90-120 seconds. Now the next part is the MOST important. Have your helper move your legs back to the floor, BUT DO NOT HELP THEM!!!! You have to stay totally relaxed. Otherwise you will just re-spaz out the muscles we just relaxed. Hope that helps!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VincentMalamute-Kim 10/14/2019 at 19:53

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Thanks again.

Nom De Plume > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/14/2019 at 20:57

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:)

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Nom De Plume 10/15/2019 at 09:50

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Thanks - the massage therapist I went to yesterday thinks it’s not actually my psoas, but maybe my piriformis (related to SI joint), or it’s really just glute-related.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > VincentMalamute-Kim 10/15/2019 at 10:08

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The massage therapist I went to yesterday gave me a good stretch where I lay on my back, bend one leg and put my heel out to my side on the floor, and then let my knee drop (just with its own weight) toward my other knee.

She prefers leg stretches on your back, either with a rope or assistance if needed, instead of using body weight, just to make sure you don’t overdo it.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tripper 10/15/2019 at 10:11

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There’s a guy here at my office that was a competitive runner for a while. He walks like a old man because of the damage he’s done, but he still goes and runs...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By 10/15/2019 at 10:15

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Thanks! Will definitely give this a try to see if I can find that tenderpoint.

The massage therapist I saw yesterday is thinking it’s not actually psoas, but maybe related to the piriformis (possibly related to my SI joint). Or maybe it’s all just really glute-related...

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > dumpsterfire! 10/15/2019 at 10:16

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Yup, definitely planning on much more activity and doing whatever I can to mitigate the sitting I have to do every day.

Will also work on doing less stupid stuff. Bowling is stupid for me (right now).

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Sovande 10/15/2019 at 10:19

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Ugh - sorry to hear it.

Thanks, I have a feeling that I’ll be using that back on floor / legs up on couch position quite a bit going forward (hopefully just for relaxing, not because of more spasms).

Sovande > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/15/2019 at 10:35

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It’s certainly relaxing! I also have a foam roller I use when I want to torture myself. Nothing like a little pressure point pain and screaming to get you going!

My back issues stem from an injury I got playing soccer when I was about 14. I haven't been the same since and that was 30 years ago. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Sovande 10/15/2019 at 11:00

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Yeah, I’ve got one of those, too.

That’s brutal that you’ve been dealing with this since you were so young!

DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/15/2019 at 11:09

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whatever it might be, best of luck! If you are still struggling for relief, try looking for someone who specializes in “Osteopathic manipulative medicine”. It’s essentially a chiropractor, but for the entire body. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DucST3-Red-1Liter-Standing-By 10/15/2019 at 11:26

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Thanks again. I’m standing up much straighter today, thankfully. Hoping for continued improvement the next couple days.