President Pence?

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 10/03/2019 at 16:10 • Filed to: None

1

100

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Personally, I think if the Democrats were to kick Trump out of office by one means or another, they could kiss 2020 goodbye because they could not defeat Pence. And Pence would have a run at a fresh 8 years. What do you think?

jimz > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:15

7

it depends who the nominee is.  Pence is kind of a doorknob, and in recent elections the doorknob usually loses (Bush 1, Gore, Kerry, McCain, Romney, Clinton.)

For Sweden > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:16

6

If Americans elect someone from Indiana, Indycar might finally get a third engine manufacturer.

Tapas > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:18

3

Quick! Listen to this song before Pence issues an Executive Order by banning it!

vondon302 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:20

0

I mean really how much worse could it get.

Goo d God I’m defending Pence!

Were doomed.

Thomas Donohue > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:26

0

Would be a better story i f Ivanka was his VP pick.

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:27

1

You’re right about 2020. He’d have the Republicans, potential to sway libertarians (all 15 of them), some undecided and every ravenous  Trump supporter would be foaming at the mouth angry for revenge. Maybe the Democrats should rethink this investigation. A win this year could prove to be a much more costly loss in the long run. 

Deal Killer - Powered by Focus > vondon302 10/03/2019 at 16:27

3

Well, for one thing, you’d be punished for not capitalizing God, you heathen.

ttyymmnn > vondon302 10/03/2019 at 16:28

4

Two words: Supreme Court  

Bryan doesn't drive a 1M > jimz 10/03/2019 at 16:28

1

Yeah, Trump is kind of the final proof that all we really want is entertainment.

My bird IS the word > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:32

1

Think about it this way: no matter what happens or how bad it gets, at least it will be deeply entertaining

vondon302 > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus 10/03/2019 at 16:35

0

Hey that's pagan not heathen.

HammerheadFistpunch > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:36

6

This is a big “IF”.

IF Trump is impeached

IF a bipartisan vote pulls him out of office.

IF this all happens before next november

Im not holding my breath. I think they know they wont impeach but have to at least try for the sake of appearing to put the brakes on executive overreach.

Realistically he’ll be impeached by the house, acquitted by the senate but the total and complete unhinged behaviour caused by pressure on him by the inquiry plus the economy starting to tank BEFORE the election will swing voters democratic. You can bet that the house and senate will pick up more seats. The best case is a democratically controlled house, senate and white house will put in strong safeguards against executive overreach and start to unwind a lot of meddling for meddling sake, then in 4 years the house and senate loose seats and an balanced incompetent neglect will reign once more.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul 10/03/2019 at 16:37

0

Pelosi has said impeaching Trump is worth losing the House senate and White House in 2020.  Which makes zero sense too me.

Ash78, voting early and often > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:39

2

if the Democrats were to kick Trump out of office by one means or another, they could kiss 2020 goodbye because they could not defeat Pence.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

So what you’re secretly saying is that if the GOP wants to maintain the presidency and not just the current guy , they should actually support impeaching Trump. :D

Unintended consequences and all that...

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > My bird IS the word 10/03/2019 at 16:39

4

Why do so many people think the rise of authoritarianism and the erosion of democratic principles which have kept our elections relatively free and absent of violence  is funny? Apathy is great and all, and I’m not upset with you, but I don’t think suffering is entertaining. 

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:42

5

I am not a huge Trump fan, and I didn’t vote for him, but I am the antithesis of a progressive liberal. I don’t appreciate tariff brinksmanship, but nobody else seems willing to deal with trade deficits, or put effective and competent people in positions of leadership, so I don’t hate Trump, or everything he does, either.

I don’t think impeachment proceedings have a leg to stand on, it is left-wing furor reaching a new heights, and grasping at straws.

But for the sake of theoretical discourse: Let’s consider a Pence succession.

A: Someone who isn’t a glory hog and loudmouth.

B: Someone who isn’t an insane socialist who wants to promise government mandated and controlled utopia based on wishful thinking and all the other people’s money spent by people who haven’t ever done anything other than be sheltered academics or bureaucrats.

Th e government might actually serve it’s limited and e numerated purposes more quietly and efficiently than any time in recent memory...

Inconceivable!!!

Decent, hardworking, moderate, modest, reasonable, and competent people get called things like “ doorknobs” because they aren’t flamboyant, nor insane.

But frankly, it would probably infuriate the oppositition just as much as the current flamboyant loudmouth.

I’d say it might infuriate them more, but am not sure it could increase even slightly more without people just bursting into flames, or spontaneously exploding.

wafflesnfalafel > For Sweden 10/03/2019 at 16:49

0

And Pickle and Oreo would have the run of the white house!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Bryan doesn't drive a 1M 10/03/2019 at 16:49

0

Hmm... (insert any terrible reality TV show) - how bad could it be?

BigBlock440 > HammerheadFistpunch 10/03/2019 at 16:50

7

The best case is a democratically controlled house, senate and white house will put in strong safeguards against executive overreach 

Considering it’s mostly the same democrats that were all too happy to expand executive overreach in the prior decade+ , I’d say it’s pretty doubtful.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 10/03/2019 at 16:50

0

She says that now because she’s all in (forced by her fellow Ds).

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 10/03/2019 at 16:51

0

Many people deal with tragedy with humor...

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 10/03/2019 at 16:53

3

I find it entertaining just for the complete shitshow that was the last election and how now if you don’t agree with someone, you’re automatically a Trump supporter.

I look at it this way, when the elections came down to Trump/Clinton, it was just proof how fucked this country really is.

shop-teacher > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 16:54

0

I agree with you.  I hope the Dems aren’t that dumb ... but not confident in that by any means.

HammerheadFistpunch > BigBlock440 10/03/2019 at 16:56

2

hey, i said best case. One argument I’ve heard that I like is that the house should push for the senate to separate the issues of removal and barring from running again. That way he’s out of office and no longer able to abuse the powers of the office to sway an election but that the people get to decide if they want him again.  It gives the Republican senators a way to save face (or takes away their excuses, depending on how you look at it) in “letting the voters decide” while recognizing the obvious abuses of power.  

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 10/03/2019 at 17:02

0

Thats Pelosi putting herself before everyone else. She’d rather sink her ship to kill the captain just to say she killed the captain. Trump’s arrogance is rubbing off on everyone.

*Insert child Gamora what did it cost you meme*

CobraJoe > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 10/03/2019 at 17:02

0

Pelosi has said impeaching Trump is worth losing the House senate and White House in 2020. Which makes zero sense too me.

I’m not so sure they could keep the house in 2020 if they didn’t move to impeach.  We all want leaders who take action, not people who sit back quietly and wait for the next election cycle to make it better.  

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 10/03/2019 at 17:05

1

Using humour to cope is not the same as viewing suffering as a source of entertainment. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 17:10

2

Pence is implicit and part of Ukraingate. Long live President Pelosi. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 10/03/2019 at 17:16

0

Talking about personal tragedy, not others.

Not saying it’s healthy, just stating facts.

Sometimes people laugh when they really want to cry.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 17:19

1

Which pence would it be? He voted for every free trade deal as a congressman for 12 years and gung ho foreign intervention, he is the washington establishment trump rails sold out small town Americans. I can’t see how he could go and do another 180 and continue trumps base  support.

My bird IS the word > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 10/03/2019 at 17:19

0

It sure is good thing that our populace is armed and capable of overthrowing an authoritarian government then.

gettingoldercarguy > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 10/03/2019 at 17:28

0

New to politics?

gettingoldercarguy > Ash78, voting early and often 10/03/2019 at 17:29

1

It’s a bit ironic, don't you think?  A little too ironic.  Yes, I really do think.

MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) > My bird IS the word 10/03/2019 at 17:33

0

from what I’ve learned about militias in the states.....authoritarian governments (and the King of England) have nothing to worry about. 

gettingoldercarguy > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 17:33

3

The impeachment Republicans are fighting tooth and nail to not allow will not help them in any way. Pence will not win an election, the guy is classic conservative and not in t une with more modern conservatives.

This isn’t a jizz stain on a dress, this is asking a foreign nation to investigate a political rival. The percentage swing in people now wanting an impeachment says this won’t be political suicide.

This is reading exactly like the Nixon impeachment, but on fast forward.

gettingoldercarguy > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/03/2019 at 17:36

2

If he could approach the China issue with decent strategy, it’d be easier to applaud . As it is, we’re losing our ass off and alienated our allies who agree with us and could actually help us change China’s policies. But no, gotta go in to it stupidly as possible.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 18:14

3

If Trump was impeached and removed from office, I could see it turning the GOP upside down even more than the Dems.

I don’t think Pence would beat Biden or Sanders. Just watch him in a recent speech:

What I see there is a guy who won’t appeal to the Trump base that has infected the Republican crowd.

The guy who introduced him seems to have more charisma.

Now having said that, I think Pence would be a huge improvement over Trump... and I say that as someone who isn’t a fan of him at all.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 18:30

2

While Pence holds many backwards beliefs and thinks contrary to me on nearly every issue, he’s not the unpredictable timebomb Trump is. I might not be happy with a Pence administration but at least I would ’t have to worry about him starting WWWII by insulting another country on Twitter.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/03/2019 at 18:42

1

My inclination is to applaud you simply for writing this post, as an Oppo who is not virulently anti-Trump is a rare breed.

I appreciate the candid tone of your comment and it’s hard for an intellectually honest person to agree or disagree with any of the prevalent narratives because they’re so totally one-sided, mutually exclusive, and stated as absolute fact by those who put them forth. We are reduced to diametrically opposed rabbles shouting slogans across each others’ barricades.

But in all honesty, the part of it all that gets me is the criticism, or outright mockery, of people who are inflamed by rhetoric that is designed specifically to inflame them. To my thinking, that is not a constructive approach. But hey: here I am critiquing style, right? And ignoring the substance?

nermal > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 18:48

1

I think that there will be less than 5 people crossing party lines either way in regards to impeachment voting, in either the House or the Senate, regardless of what actually comes of the “inquiry”. There is zero chance that Trump does a Nixon and resigns at any point before the end of his term(s).

Trump will use the failed impeachment to further the “me vs them” position, energizing voters and selling more crap to raise more $$$. Everything that he does is intentional, not dumb, including today’s ramblings about bringing China into the Biden scandal.   

Pence thinks that he is waiting for his turn  in 2024, but he will have to beat not only Ted Cruz but also Don Jr or Ivanka in that primary.  

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 10/03/2019 at 18:50

2

The dueling counternarratives in this fascinate me. I have a deep, deep disdain for Donald Trump and everything about him. Deep. Deep. Disdain. But as much as I would enjoy seeing him resign rather than being fired, I’m still not convinced that ousting him is best for the country. I am hoping that the Dems will do a full inquiry, then pull their punch at the last because impeachment will never make it past the Senate.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Ash78, voting early and often 10/03/2019 at 18:53

0

That supreme irony was lurking in the back of my mind and now you’ve outed it.

Nick Has an Exocet > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/03/2019 at 18:53

1

I’m with you on this.

I don’t know if there can be a non-meme president though. It’s clear to me that this is American Idol and unless you’re promising turning student debt into unicorns or fighting a forever-war against the boogieman, you can’t win. It’s simply not entertaining enough to get the votes.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 10/03/2019 at 18:55

1

Voters demand a high degree of fakeness from their candidates.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 19:01

2

Based on recent events, from what I heard, they are *constitutionally required* now to do what they’re doing... polling and/or politics be damned.

And if it doesn’t make it past the Senate, that can only make them look better by taking the position “we did our constitutional duty... but the GOP didn’t.  Do you care about the constitution and this country or not? ”.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BigBlock440 10/03/2019 at 19:03

0

Hey Stranger. Happy to have you in on this.

Are you staying well?

Nick Has an Exocet > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 19:05

0

I think there is something more sinister to the mockery. It keeps people from seeing the reason in the other side’s argument. This kind of new-[ r] age politics drives people to a point of psychological break come election day. 2016 was the first time I’d seen regular people have mental breakdowns (calling out of work, sobbing uncontrollably ) after a US election. That shit isn’t normal.

How did we get there? A person’s reality is subjective. By influencing the perceived reality of your base, you can get them to do almost anything. I don’t really know which party did it first, but the first to reach a point of extreme cognitive dissonance was the democrats. Up to the day of the election, there was no doubt in the minds of democrats that Hilary Clinton would win. So much so, that the amount of mental discomfort from confronting a reality where what people thought was a foregone conclusion wasn’t the case caused a public mental health crisis. If Trump loses the 2020 election, I would guess that the same would now happen to the Republicans.

We’re at the point where I think you need to start putting limits on advertising, funding, and use of the media. The political machine has gotten far too good at redefining the realities of the bases and it’s not mentally healthy. I feel like we’re moving to a point where either my Republican parents or my Liberal friends are going check into a hospital when their reality comes crashing down.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > HammerheadFistpunch 10/03/2019 at 19:07

0

I wonder also whether the Dems will make their inquiry, then pull their punch at the last because doomed to fail in the Senate. One of the chief arguments from the Trump Camp is that his rhetoric is not harmful. Be that or be that not the case, if enough people get sick enough of it, and he’s dishing it aplenty nowadays , that could induce a favorable swing if you’re anti-Trump.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 10/03/2019 at 19:09

0

False dichotomies abound.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul 10/03/2019 at 19:10

0

I can’t be right, but I think it’s a fair question. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Thomas Donohue 10/03/2019 at 19:10

0

No way. Gotta be Jared.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > jimz 10/03/2019 at 19:12

0

I tend to thing that the frothing-at-the-mouth members of the Trump Ilk would vote Pence for revenge and maybe a bunch of middle-of-the-roaders, too, but what do I know?

Nibby > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 19:12

5

SCOOB/NIBBY 2020

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 10/03/2019 at 19:16

0

I’d like to think Pence would switch out a bunch of cabinet people as well. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > nermal 10/03/2019 at 19:17

1

Pence thinks that he is waiting for his turn in 2024, but he will have to beat not only Ted Cruz but also Don Jr or Ivanka in that primary.

Ugh. A consideration for those who ask, “How much worse could it get?”

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > nermal 10/03/2019 at 19:18

0

I think that there will be less than 5 people crossing party lines either way

Why I think there’s a chance the Dems could pull their punch at the last.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Nick Has an Exocet 10/03/2019 at 19:26

1

This is cogent, but here, too: are the Democrats really all that overwrought, or are the Republicans merely saying that they are? Not me pushing back against your comment, just asking. I work with a guy and I sat next to him the afternoon the results started indicating Trump and he started telling me about Dems shrieking and wailing and I’ve really not observed that.

But what you describe, I assume, is what you perceive, and who am I to argue with that?

But part of that social media thing that you say is also the media  media: I think the perceptions of people having breakdowns are fed to intellectually lazy people via social media and blathering pundits. This might be more or less precisely what you are saying. Me? Rather than lock the bathroom stall door from the outside when Mitch McConnell is on the inside, I’d like to see Donald Trump’s Twitter account taken away.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Nibby 10/03/2019 at 19:27

3

The campaign would be run on computers too old to hack.

My bird IS the word > MKULTRA1982(ConCrustyBrick) 10/03/2019 at 19:59

0

Darkness can never last too long, when you laugh in its face.

-Danny  E lfman

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 10/03/2019 at 20:10

1

pence woud rally the evangelical vote, but I can’t see how he could keep the fervent support among trumps base. His lgb views increasingly out of step with the majority of the country thats gonna knock off a lot of suurban support and then you have his interesting views on women, though after the pussy comments I don’t know how much that would affect them .

MrSnrub > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 20:12

4

Pence has no charisma and is a bit creepy besides. I have trouble believing he would do better than Trump. At any rate, the only way Trump leaves office before January 2021 is if he resigns, and he’s not going to do that. Though it’s interesting to think about how the D candidates would have to change their messaging. Warren’s anti-corruption spiel might be less effective with the swamp king’s removal . Bernie wouldn’t have to change much of anything I suspect...

But w ith the election a year away, impeachment isn’t about removing him from office. It’s about the principle of the thing, partly, but more importantly it ties up the administration in hearings, drags as much of Trump’s dirty laundry into the light as possible and hopefully rallies the Democratic base, which is the key to winning next year.

nermal > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 20:17

1

The answer is much worse. Chelsea Clinton is old enough!

Nick Has an Exocet > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 20:36

0

Yeah, life is subjective. I worked at a company that was about 50% foreign. Those that weren’t were almost 100% far left. Two people were Clinton campaign volunteers. One of them didn’t come in the next day, the other cried in a conference room all day then went home. Several others left to talk with their therapists. There’s an assumption that if you can’t see it, it must be a fabrication and that if you do, it must be the same everywhere. Honestly, it’s a mix of both.

Both parties seem to be vacillating between unfounded overconfidence and overwrought paranoia. To me, it’s heavily influenced by the echo-chamber effect of having a bifurcated media (including social).

I actually think the one thing that candidates SHOULD have is Twitter. Is there a better way to actually gauge your vote than something that comes directly from the idiotic fingertips of a candidate?

I much prefer that to some kind of curated (by who? some producer? a donor? advertisers? ) media coverage.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 20:44

0

disagreeing is not nearly enough anymore, and it has gone way beyond being disagreeable, to ad-hominem vilification and ostracism.

Constructive discourse is not nearly the purpose, when destructive is so much less bound by rationality, reason, truth, and commonality.

Ironically, it usually comes from thin-skinned bullies, who decry bullying.

That whole substance thing has gone way out of style, where have you been? ;-)

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Nick Has an Exocet 10/03/2019 at 20:46

1

extremely sad that it is apparently true,

Especially when government isn’t seen as a necessary baseline function for law and order , but as the over-arching control in every aspect of everyone’s lives, in order to extract what some people want from everyone else.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MrSnrub 10/03/2019 at 20:55

0

And if Trump can bend US foreign policy to his political gain, what’s wrong with Dems doing their impeachment stuff?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > nermal 10/03/2019 at 20:57

0

Jared Kushner for president! But why bring Chelsea into this? What’s she done political, or have I had my head in a duffel bag?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Nick Has an Exocet 10/03/2019 at 20:58

2

No, you’re right about that. Donald Trump is about the most transparent politician there ever was, made so by Twitter.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/03/2019 at 21:00

0

“Truth” amounts to a punch bowl full of perception with a few orange slice facts floating in it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/03/2019 at 21:02

0

Ironically, it usually comes from thin-skinned bullies, who decry bullying.

Now, I could have chosen these exact words to describe POTUS 45, but perhaps you are being ironic and I have my head in my duffel bag.

Nick Has an Exocet > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 21:04

0

I would actually like to see legislation that says that politicians aren’t allowed to have agencies or PR people tweet as them. A very interesting thing happened recently when AOC’s tweeter quit. Suddenly her tweets totally changed. 

DipodomysDeserti > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 10/03/2019 at 21:11

1

Read the book of Revelations and attend an evangelical church for a year and tell me you don’t have to worry about people like Oence starting WWIII. They think it’s inevitable.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 21:13

0

I think you may be confusing truth with opinion. Opinion is perception with a bit of fact thrown in. Perception is a human metal effect, and opinion is a human consciousness construct.

Truth isn’t a human construct. physical laws like gravity. core reality like time. things that are repeatable, dependable, and rationally indisputable. That can extend to ideals and concepts like freedom and liberty, although effects may be flawed by human implementation.

Facts that apply to people and their actions can be true, as well. A lie is deception. that is a true fact.

People don’t create truth. People discover fragments of truth and sometimes express a bit of it. Truth is the substrate that reality is built on.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 21:29

0

For each of the instances where he has been a bully, and he has, and I disapprove...

There are just as many or more examples of some previous presidents doing the same or worse.

There are thousand or more instances of the opposition doing the same thing en masse, with much more dire effect.

So much so, that there is a term for it. Political Correctness. Just think of the entomology of that term. Political. Correctness. Something dependent on politics that is entirely variable, and subject to popularity of bureaucrats that pander for political power... and their arbitrary determination of what is correct based on their platform of the moment, and who agrees with them, or those who disagree to any degree.

People like that... bully people into agreeing with them on EVERYTHING. Any variance of thought or opinion is magnified to an astounding degree, and then bullied into compliance, or vilified into irrelevance or ineffectiveness.

Impeaching a sitting president for erroneous reports of a phone call that was out of context is just the latest, biggest expression. Not breaking a law, not violating oath of office, not even doing what they claim he did, or saying what they claim he said. Deception is not a foundation that stands up.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > gettingoldercarguy 10/03/2019 at 21:53

1

No. What I don’t agree with the article above is how they think Pence can go back to being Pence the congressman, with traditional GOP trade attitudes to please wallstreet and carry trumps base which is antithetical to trumps trade policy.

gettingoldercarguy > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 10/03/2019 at 22:02

0

Right, I think he’ll have to radically change who he was t o try to juggle the circus Trump is.  He'll fail as Trump is very very good at that

MrSnrub > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/03/2019 at 22:02

3

The Democrats don’t really have any other choice. If the president is going to abuse his power like this to attack their presidential candidates, what are they supposed to do? Lie down and take it?

gettingoldercarguy > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 10/03/2019 at 22:09

1

Oh and sorry, I didn't mean that to sounds as snarky as it did.  I can just imagine pence trying to appeal to Trump's base and faltering.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > DipodomysDeserti 10/03/2019 at 22:16

1

I only specifically stated "starting WWIII by insulting another country on Twitter"

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > gettingoldercarguy 10/03/2019 at 22:29

1

no offens e taken

MrSnrub > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 10/03/2019 at 23:04

0

She was only asked about the House as far as I know

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Nick Has an Exocet 10/04/2019 at 00:05

1

Now and again, you can tell when a grown-up tweets something for President Trump, such as when John Bolton left.

Personally? Oppo is the only social media I have anything to do with.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MrSnrub 10/04/2019 at 00:10

0

As did Obama and the Democrats, as some here have suggested, when McConnell denied Merrick Garland a hearing in the Senate? It depends upon the day: one day they’ll tell you that, and another day, that Mitch just played the game better than they did.

The media have us all played.

MrSnrub > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/04/2019 at 00:20

0

There wasn’t really anything they could have done about Garland. This time at least they can swamp the administration in hearings and subpoenas.

Regarding the media, you might appreciate this article about how their “all Trump all the time” content distracts us from other important things. Warning though, it’s written by a dirty socialist.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2019/10/keeping-our-eyes-on-the-ball

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > MrSnrub 10/04/2019 at 07:58

0

Thank you for that link, though I confess I skimmed it. Roger Ailes: television that keeps people tuned in but keeps them stupid. My parents watch Rachel Maddow nightly. Even though she largely appeals to my biases, I can't take five minutes of her. When I was at my folks' home which now, by the way, has had any evidence of my ever having lined there hauled to Goodwill, Elizabeth Warren was to be interviewed and I watched with interest, but I had to zombie my way through half an hour of Maddow monologue before they finally gave us Warren and by then, I was exhausted. Americans are fundamentally intellectually lazy and it will be our undoing.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/04/2019 at 08:06

0

No, I don't think I am confusing anything at all. A fact is a fact, even if it is based upon certain axiomatic assumptions. My punch bowl analogy has factual orange slices floating in two gallons of perception, opinion, whatever. "Truth" is the entirety of the contents of the bowl, with the various flavors stewed together. I suppose we could stretch the analogy further and think of the effects of social media and prominent personalities as the grain alcohol that someone slips into the bowl, but I don't want to get too far afield. A simple model that fails is preferable to a complicated model that fails, generally.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/04/2019 at 08:29

0

This is probably the most cogent indictment of political correctness I have ever encountered. Well played, Sir. (Or Madam; gotta check my assumptions...)

Forgive me, please, if I do not as easily accept your assertion that no law has been broken nor oath of office ignored. I do not dismiss the assertion, but also do not swallow it entirely. I could not that and expect you to have any intellectual respect for me. But herein lies the argument against impeachment: that it is a political process to adjudicate something. (I’m no attorney, so can’t choose the best words to express what I am trying to say.) So one might argue that the matter should be left alone. But that runs convenient cover for the people on one side of the matter. “Settle it at the ballot box.” And keep it all under wraps in the meantime. I am not arguing that the president should be impeached, but if he is doing shady things, this being a nation where I’m told I have an expectation of knowing what’s going on, I want to learn about it. If POTUS has broken campaign finance laws, for example, then we should hear about it. If a sitting president is using the weight and the trappings of his office, of the American government to take down his political opponent, then I am inclined to agree that this would be problematic.

Everything is hyper-po larized with the AMERICAN political base, those of any stripe who participate or take interest, lazy and zombified and bellying up to a trough of self-interested pundits who blather and preach and people soak it up, asking no questions, being inculcated with someone else’s slogans and talking points. Therein lies the real and actual threat to the fabric of our democracy.

Thomas Donohue > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/04/2019 at 08:40

0

I don’t think Trump leaves the building unless there’s a guarantee of Ivanka as VP. Otherwise he brings Pence and a few dozen others down with him.

That’s why the GOP hasn’t moved forward with this plan.  He will burn down the house.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Thomas Donohue 10/04/2019 at 09:21

0

That is an interesting theory and entirely plausible.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/04/2019 at 09:24

0

“ Not breaking a law, not violating oath of office, not even doing what they claim he did, or saying what they claim he said.”

Whose conclusion is this and how is it reached?

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/04/2019 at 09:42

0

I should be clearer, no law has been proven to be broken, or oath of office proven to be violated.

It has been asserted, but not even yet brought to proceedings to be established.

The Muller investigation was a giant complicated mess that ultimately came up with nothing that was actionable, either.

One of the assertions with this new issue, was threatening to cut off funding to Ukraine if they didn’t investigate... when in actuality, that funding had long since already ended and was a non-factor. T he white house has released that the discussion between world leaders did not deal with a request to investigate political rivals.

Anyone can accuse someone else of anything. Until there is weight behind that accusation, investigation that turns up proof, and legal proceedings... I don’t treat it as anything other than acrimony on the part of the accuser.

And there is more than enough acrimony to go around.

So much so, that there is so little truth and reality to the political discourse, that I now no longer can stomach actually following the details day to day, I am too busy, and the back-biting is too ridiculous and insidious to trust as anything valid.

Too much of it has been lies, that now if there is any bit of truth involved, I can’t trust what I am hearing, and have to dismiss all of it until it meets a legal burden of proof.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/04/2019 at 10:47

0

Fair enough. And as has been put out there by others, if the thinking people become exhausted and tune out, then the power brokers have freer reign to do their thing.

Thank you for the conversation, by the way.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/04/2019 at 11:01

0

Perhaps being intentional about letting the forces duke it out, and waiting to see what’s available to choose between in November is the healthiest — for thinking people — option. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with disagreeing, or even contending warmly, about political views and decisions. But discourse is broken, as you have acknowledged.

Then again... Sitting it out is probably what both sides want most for us to do. We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t.

nermal > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/04/2019 at 11:22

0

If you thought Trump vs Clinton round 1 was bad, imagine how bad round 2 with their kids would be. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > nermal 10/04/2019 at 11:42

0

It’s all so bad now I can barely stand it. And SCOTUS is taking up abortion. I think it’s safe to assume that 2020 is going to be a s**tshow. Seems like whatever the Founders’ intent, we’re stress testing it.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/04/2019 at 13:53

0

That is true, and I try not to tune completely out. It is only getting harder to wade through the increasing mire to find the actual news while finding time for that between other aspects of life.

I tend to find myself saying that I wish I could find a good (read: easy and quick amidst other things ) way to cut out the gossip-column stuff about “W ho said what in response to what who- else said...”  

Then maybe actually find out what is actually going on in the world... and someday get to a point to be able to trust that it is being truthfully reported, either without agenda, or with an honestly presented agenda of solving problems objectively and rationally, not politically.

You are welcome, and thank you in return. I always appreciate good conversation, and points of view that are presented with honesty and in the spirit of bettering understanding.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/04/2019 at 15:26

1

My strategy is to read a variety of sources: Politico, The New Republic, NY Times, The Bulwark, The Atlantic are my current list. I read these and consider the sources and when there are bits that strike me as sensible, and in particular, that overlap each other, I assign some credibility in my own mind to those reports and opinions. Some bits appeal to my biases and some do not. And I try to interact with others, especially those with differing or opposing views. For example: your indictment of Political Correctness. Indictment is my word choice, but I think it is apropos . There are those who decry “liberal tyranny ,” and I think that might fit the sentiment of that reply of yours. But there is a reflex action, and I am not saying that this applies to you necessarily, of throwing out the baby with the bath water and refusing to acknowledge that in a civil society, a measure of consideration is a constructive thing. Even as a relative Liberal, and I do happen to hold some views that would be considered conservative by some, I deeply resent other Liberals who arrogantly claim to be the one who understands what it means to be sensitive. And I could certainly respect a Conservative expressing deep ire there. So there’s an unpacking that never occurs and things go to the extreme as they are currently with President Trump and his ilk. That’s the bit that I view as destructive. And of course, the Liberals cry Di visive! and the Conservatives cry, No, you are divisive ... It’s all very discouraging to me.

I would label the discourse you and I are sharing right now as the needful balm.

nermal > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 10/04/2019 at 16:37

0

The Founder’s intent was to be w hat 170 0s Britain wasn’t . All of the important bits of US government are built around preventing it from becoming 1700s Britain.

That doesn’t mean that the early US government was a utopia. I think it was just as much of a shitshow as the modern version, just with less technology. 

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > nermal 10/04/2019 at 17:14

0

Strangely enough, I hope you are correct.

Also: thank you for the conversation.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 10/05/2019 at 14:48

0

I’ve been thinking a lot about this discussion. Your part of it, as well as a that of a couple of others, have helped me to shape my view of things. I think that a helpful thing that Trump supporters, even the reluctant ones, could do, is be more purposeful about saying that Trump’s manners and actions are not appropriate in a society that seeks to set itself apart as enlightened. But maybe that’s not a conservative value. But then how can it not be if [significant fraction(s) of] the base purports to follow Jesus Christ? I can hardly imagine a man or a government putting forth a less Christlike countenance. None of this maelstrom adds  up for me on any level.