Things I can count on from Jalopnik/established motoring publications

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
10/01/2019 at 12:41 • Filed to: rants, crossoverpocalypse

1. Treating the crossover trend like some kind of coma were all waiting to wake from, simultaneously as a sign of the end of times.

What, you think enthusiast 20-30 years ago were clamoring for more regular sedans and wagons? Regular hatchbacks?

“as soon as gas prices go back up its so long crossovers and hello miata’s!”

Get real. Crossovers ARE the regular cars. They have a small mileage penalty and are FAR closer to hatchbacks and wagons than they are with suburbans and hummers.

2. Behaving as if crossovers are going door to door clubbing car loving enthusiasts.

Small cars are dying, their value propasition just isn’t there and there is no reason to suffer them anymore. You know whats making a comeback? Traditional luxury wagons, performance hatchbacks wearing “crossover” guise, 400 hp awd wagons that are no taller than a hatchback but are called “crossovers”, family vehicles that are breaking into the 4, 3 and sometimes 2(!) second 0-60 range. Hell, even high performance traditional sports cars are making a comeback.

“but bland crossovers exist!”

Yeah. Duh. regular people are going to need regular cars. Regular cars existed before. FACT: Fun car options have never been more numerous.

This isn’t a fleeting trend folks, learn to embrace the new “car”.

Its not all bad either. I mean, go ahead and tell me this is anything but a hot hatch masquerading as a crossover.

and you know what? its good.

I would like to point as, as per many of my rants, I’m not trying to convince you to buy anything, or to like anything. Im not even trying to convince you that ____ is better. No need to defend sedans, wagons, hatches et al. This rant is to state the facts and drop kick prevailing trends in automotive journalism.

What, you can’t simultaneously be a car lover AND understand the importance and significance of the crossover as it supplants the sedan?

DISCUSSION (39)

CB > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 12:51

But people are buying things I don't like! But I won't buy the things I say I will!

HammerheadFistpunch > CB
10/01/2019 at 12:54

how dare the market react to consumer demand instead of forcing them to buy something they don’t want! Its a trick!

Nothing > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 12:58

I remember when magazines wanted everyone to buy hatchbacks. Now people are buying hatchbacks, they’re just the wrong ones.

HammerheadFistpunch > Nothing
10/01/2019 at 13:01

Basically. Wagons and h atchbacks that just happen to be a little taller.

dogisbadob > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:04

The problem is that crossovers are displacing wagons and smaller cars.

If they were *in addition* there would be less of a problem

My bird IS the word > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:06

I think it doesnt help that "sports cars" got their asses handed to them by muscle cars. The trend will probably swing back as new muscle car sales taper off

Spridget > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:07

I truly don’t see the argument for small cars to come back. Don’t get me wrong, they almost certainly handle better than most crossovers, but for the average person just driving around, they make no sense. A friend of mine has a Mazda 3 hatch; the roofline on it is so low that he can barely fit a full grocery run in it, and the backseats are uncomfortably cramped if you’re above five feet tall. For his purposes of just driving around, that car would benefit from being a few inches taller, and there’s nothing wrong with a few more inches of group clearance to aid visibility . Remember when auto journalists called all small cars “penalty boxes?” Now, they’re supposed to be the next great hope?

As the owner of Honda Passport (the Rodeo one) , I totally see the appeal of car which has the good visibility and ride height, as well as the comfort associated therein, but doesn’t totally sacrifice on handling and ride comfort.

Chuckles > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:10

As someone who buys cars used and not new, I accept that I have no real say in what automakers offer. I, a guy who has never paid more than $7,500 for any vehicle, am not their target audience.

Also, as a passenger, crossovers are nice places to be. They are spacious and have good ergonomics in terms of getting in and getting out. I understand why so many people buy them.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:10

I personally prefer the extra ground clearance. More practical for forest roads, snow, etc.

Spanfeller is a twat > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:11

Conflict sells

facw > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:11

I’m sure the crossover trend will die out or at least diminish and possibly in the next 10 years. It won’t be because people have realized that crossovers are silly pretend trucks or anything, it will be because people who grew up with them will see them as embarrassing sedentary family haulers, and will want something different signal their sense of adventure.

HammerheadFistpunch > Spridget
10/01/2019 at 13:14

my thoughts exactly.

Sammyno55 > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:15

I’m holding my space credits for the return of the PLC (personal luxury coupe) with 2 giant doors and a huge trunk! Where's my Lincoln Mark IX based on the Conti?

Chariotoflove > Spridget
10/01/2019 at 13:21

There is appeal in certain niches. The inner city is one. If you can’t use public transport or it doesn’t suit your needs for whatever reason, a small “city car” gives you mobility in town and the option for driving out of town on weekends.

Chariotoflove > Sammyno55
10/01/2019 at 13:22

I miss those days.

Chariotoflove > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:24

You see it even here, where enthusiasts are supposed to congregate. Someone is looking for a new crossover all the time for a daily for himself or a spouse. What takes precedence? comfort, low NVH , cargo space, ride height. Driving excitement is down on the list.

nermal > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:25

Companies making bank from boring crossovers is what is enabling them to make so many improvements in their enthusiast cars.

BMW for example - the current M2 is arguably the best and most “BMW”.... ever.

Ford - Has anybody written anything negative about the GT350? The Raptor?

Porch - The Cayman / Boxter / 2 dozen varieties of 911 are all better than they have ever been.

It’s good if companies that make enthusiast cars actually make $$$$. Whenever they stop making $$$$, the low volume models are the first to go.

HammerheadFistpunch > dogisbadob
10/01/2019 at 13:25

Are they though? we have a lot of new small cars and wagons. Ioniq, golf, clarity, i3, leaf, 500, fortwo, volt, prius c, mirage, fit, civic (2 and 4 door), 2, yaris, forte, corolla (sedan and hatch), jetta, mini cooper, cruze, spark, elantra (sedan and wagon), rio, sentra, accent, sonic, 3 (sedan and hatch), versa, impreza (sedan or wagon), beetle, cla, fiesta, cooper clubman, niro, soul, bolt, model 3, sportwagon, veloster, v60, v90, a4 allroad, tourx, e450, xf sportbrake.

These are excluding anything the epa lists in these categories but might be considered a “crossover”.

I realize also that some of these are leaving the market but I think it illustrates that point that there are plenty of small cars to choose from...in fact WAAAAAY more than there have been in the past, but people forget because people aren’t buying them.

412GTI > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:26

I always laugh at the Crossover and automatic transmission haters. Why get so bothered over it? Yes, some are sad lifted econoboxes (looking at you Ford EcoSport), but hey they’re selling. If this is the way people see that hatchbacks are the ideal design so be it.

Look at the chart, trucks are behind them. They aren’t great to drive , yet won’t get anywhere near the same amount of hate. I guess because they hold up longer? Fun times.

HammerheadFistpunch > facw
10/01/2019 at 13:26

Possible, though honestly the crossover is turning back into wagons and hatches so grandually they will eventually just be crossovers in name only eventually.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:36

I recognize crossovers as an extremely long overdue reversion to the mean. One that would have occurred long ago if it were not for minivans taking up the highest demand category: tall roof, multi-row, near-vertical back, higher ride height, etc. etc. All the things that had become achingly practical synonyms with “car” for almost everything built in the ‘40s, but which people traded away... for a while. Particularly with the freedoms afforded by owning more than one car.

As it is, I think there’s too much emphasis on crossovers being a “truck” and necessarily pretending to be “big” even when they’re not, and that torques off both people who resent the lie and people who detest trucks. As that styling emphasis continues to recede, we can see crossovers for what they are - actually just cars, more or less.

Lots of customers not willing to trade practicality for sleekness, and with the modern emphasis on safety and most costs for a car being *not very related* to the material square footage very much anymore (number of manufacturing steps, number of workers, employee pensions, etc.), it makes sense to make a big enough box to make crash tests easy, and no smaller. And when the “small” box that people will buy is most of the weight and most of the size of the “medium” box, there’s not much reason to cater to customers who want “genuine small” at all.

What am I saying? It’s all just words. The average tall hatchback of today is yesterday’s yesterday’s “sedan”. It’s what people buy, and what companies will make. Plus ca change.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 13:37

I WANT more crossovers. Boring people buy them, hell, I bought one.

That extra money gets spent on R&D or for more limited item cars. They will be the first things cut when money is tight.

I hope the market buys all of them every year. Because I want more sports cars to choose from.

RPM esq. > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 14:15

This post and the comments are a nice dose of reality. I can’t stand the constant complaints about crossovers, automatics, etc. Crossovers are comfortable and practical for most people, and they offer a little bit more worry-free capability and comfort than an equivalent low-slung hatchback or wagon would. I would suggest that since the car was invented, the most practical and popular choice has always looked an awful lot like a crossover—’60s and ‘70s family cars have tons of headroom and cargo space, and high ground clearance by today’s standards. ‘40s-’50s sedans do too. The Model T has more in common with an SUV than with a modern hatchback.

When I tried having one do-it-all car instead of a two-car garage, I went with a crossover (an Audi SQ5) because one of the things I wanted it to do was traverse forest service roads to trailheads in mud and snow without worrying too much about ground clearance. I knew myself well enough that I hung onto my FJ80 in case that didn’t work out and later went back to having two quite different cars instead of trying to have one to do it all, but not everyone could or would make that choice. Not everyone should! The SQ5 was great and I recommend the Q5 and SQ5 to people all the time.

Mrs. RPM and RPM Jr. both drive crossovers, and both are safe, comfortable, capable, practical cars. By any reasonable standard they’re both quicker than anyone really needs in a daily driver, even if neither would be good on, like, a racetrack. But they’re not for racetracks, they’re for living with every day in safety and comfort, and for occasional road trips and carting around friends and dogs and large objects.

jimz > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 14:25

STOP BEING REASONABLE

MrSnrub > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 14:30

I mostly agree with this. Crossovers are fine. I think they will continue to get more carlike over time as well - the new Escape is ahead of the curve in that respect. It’s basically a Focus wagon with a higher roofline and a modest suspension lift at this point.

Kinja'd!!!

And to be honest, I’m ok with that. I drive a GTI right now, and I love it, but it’s not without its compromises - it’s really easy to scrape the front bumper, so I’m always slowing down and cringing whenever I go up even a modest incline. A bit more ground clearance solves this problem. It’s a bit tough to get in and out of too, though that’s mainly because I’m fat, which of course is my fault, not the car’s. But I’m hardly alone there. And cars seem to get a bit lower with every generation, which only makes these issues worse, and crossovers more appealing.

What I hope happens are more performance crossover options. Right now the choices are just thin on the ground, and expensive. I would not hesitate to drive something like this:

Kinja'd!!!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 15:13

You’re like 99% of the way to the logical conclusion of your thoughts...

As time goes on, crossovers will be lowered and rooflines will be cut in an effort to increase efficiency. This design modification will be sold to the consumer as “ sportiness.” Suddenly the crossovers will just be regular old hatchbacks and wagons again, we just won’t call them that. They will be “Sport Crossover Vehicles” or some such non-sense.

Actually, wait, can you trademark a marketing term? Because if so then I need to do that right now. You heard it here first, folks. “Sport Crossover Vehicles. ” It’s the future.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 15:23

The new Audi RS Q3 proves your point.

https://jalopnik.com/the-five-cylinder-2020-audi-rs-q3-is-so-freaking-green-1838481746

CobraJoe > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 16:46

I agree with you, but that doesn’t mean I have to like it.

Granted, the normal family vehicles from 20-30 years ago weren’t any better than the average crossover today, but I wish there were more options for “family friendly” performance vehicles that aren’t $40k+ crossovers .

30 years ago, a Mustang had a decently sized back seat and a hatchback. Today, it has an impossible back seat and a mail slot of a trunk, and it’s a far bigger vehicle.

CobraJoe > facw
10/01/2019 at 16:47

it wi ll be because people who grew up with them will see them as embarrassing sedentary family haulers, and will want something different signal their sense of adventure.

I completely believe this.

My wife refuses to get a station wagon because it’s a “mom’s car”. We have 2 kids, she is a mom.

So instead we got an outback, which she loves . On the title, it’s vehicle type is listed as “wagon”.

CobraJoe > Spridget
10/01/2019 at 16:54

I think there is far too much “style over function” in today’s cars (especially in coupes, “larger” hatchbacks, and sedans).

For comparison, the ‘86 Mustang I had in college was 4 inches shorter to the roof than the new mazda 3, but I have hauled 14 cases of cereal in it, and rode in the back on a 3 hour road trip.my legs were a bit cramped, but I had plenty of headroom.

I know it’s not fair to compare a 30 year old car to a new one, but there was a reason all of the old hot hatches were rather square.

CobraJoe > My bird IS the word
10/01/2019 at 17:00

I think it doesnt help that “sports cars” got th eir asses handed to them by muscle cars. The trend will probably swing back as new muscle car sales taper off

More recently, the “muscle cars” are full on sports cars now. They can turn, they can stop, then can carry speed through the corners.... their back seats are for insurance purposes only...

They’re more capable than ever before, but they’re also less practical than ever before.

CobraJoe > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
10/01/2019 at 17:12

Lots of customers not willing to trade practicality for sleekness,

It’s this part that I’m most annoyed with. Sedans and small cars used to be practical. They used to have deep trunks, lots of head room in the back seat, large trunk lid opening, squared off doors in the back....

Sedans today (and several hatchbacks too) gave up those functionalities for a fastback “sporty” look. That pinches down rear head room, pinches down the rear door window, and shortens the trunk lid. Sure, it looks sporty, but a chunky 30 year old Taurus is massively more useful than a new Fusion.

The crossover scene is headed that way too. Rear windows are sloping more and more into “fastbacks”, and “Crossover coupes” are being offered by more manufacturers.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > CobraJoe
10/01/2019 at 17:22

|gave up those functionalities for a fastback “sporty” look

Don’t look now, but even that part of the story is in reruns. Semi-arbitrary example:

Kinja'd!!!

My bird IS the word > CobraJoe
10/01/2019 at 17:40

You are right, although I dont really classify muscle cars like most. Fullsize 2+2 with a v8 is a muscle car to me. I dont think they are less practical at all though.

Im thinking about smaller profile cars, more similar to a porsche 944 or a z31 300zx. Moreso its a size/body style thing for me.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > HammerheadFistpunch
10/01/2019 at 19:00

Hmmm...

The five most popular vehicle segments in Oz in August 2019 by m arket share were Medium SUVs (19.3 per cent), Small Cars (16.2), 4x4 Utes (15.3), Small SUVs (13.1) and Large SUVs (11.4).

By way of context, t he 10 most popular nameplates were the Toyota HiLux, Ford Ranger, Toyota Corolla, Hyundai i30, Toyota RAV4, Mazda 3, Toyota LandCruiser, Mazda CX-5, Mitsubishi Triton and Nissan X-Trail. So that’s 3 utes, 3 small cars, 3 medium SUVs and a large SUV.

Not so different to the US really. In our case, both the medium and large car segments have shrunk dramatically and the medium SUVs have simply taken up the slack.

CobraJoe > My bird IS the word
10/01/2019 at 22:54

Fair enough, though full size V8 2+2s are pretty rare these days. (I wouldn’t count the Camaro or Mustang as “full size”).

There still are a few sports cars to choose from today, but they’re mostly in the luxury market, apart from the Miata and the toyobaru twins.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HammerheadFistpunch
10/02/2019 at 20:19

Kinja'd!!!

my biggest grip with modern suvs/cuvs is the rear window rake that that limits useful cargo capacity

HammerheadFistpunch > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
10/02/2019 at 20:51

yeah, you’ll get no argument from me except to say it’s not contained to crossovers only

Kinja'd!!!

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HammerheadFistpunch
10/02/2019 at 21:19

Oh i agree, i get a little bugged when I hear people go “oh i bought it for more room”. its like please just be honest you wanted a taller vehicle.