When is Nostalgia Good?

"Scouting For Zen" (scouting-for-zen)
10/24/2019 at 12:00 • Filed to: TOYOTA, SUPRA, NOSTALGIA, HONDA, SUPER CUB, MAZDA, MIATA, MX-5 MIATA

Good thing it doesn’t come in rose, or this discussion would be TOO on the nose.

It’s been a few months since the Supra finally hit the streets, and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Although the R34 was what started my car craze, the Supra’s place in pop culture at large means I’m glad the new car doesn’t disappoint. Despite the (inevitable) pissing and moaning about the German origins, and the (also inevitable) pressure Toyota’s engineers and designers were under, they didn’t screw it up. It’s a proper heir to the name.

No, there’s no manual, but a low-volume sports car was always going to be a difficult sell to the accountants, even without a stick. And no, there’s no 2JZ under the hood, with an iron block that could lift Atlas and his burden. But it’s still an inline-6, like a proper Supra. Like the fans, the journalists, and the Internet commenters wanted.

But is it a good thing, that the Supra follows tradition so closely? !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . That having the engineers’ hands tied like that meant they lost the chance to move forward. And I’m inclined to agree. Because if you look back all the time, you’ll just end up crashing into a pole. To borrow a line from Brandon Sanderson, when heritage has become a box rather than an inspiration, it has gone too far.

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So, is the Supra too nostalgic? Yes. And no.

Yes, because it’s still the same basic formula as the famed Mk IV—RWD, inline-6, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! —just with updated technology. But no NSX-style hybrid system, for instance. Or novel materials.

No, because it solidifies a formula Toyota started with the GT86/FR-S/BRZ. The Mk IV Supra was a last gasp, one final hurrah of Toyota’s in-house tech evolution and the Bubble Era as a whole. The new one, on the other hand, is a collaboration. And collaborations can do wonders. By BMW’s own admission, the new Z4 is their first ‘real sports car’ in a while. Even with many shared parts, the Supra is by all accounts distinct from its BMW stablemate. It brought out the best in both.

“But it’s got BMW switchgear!” So what? Parts-sharing like that is the norm in the business. Are you really complaining about BMW buttons and knobs in a Toyota product? I envy your life. I rented a new-ish 5-series on Turo as a Christmas present for my mother—it’s not like the AC controls gave me heartburn.

And actually, while we’re on the subject of nostalgia, what about the MX-5 Miata? Is that too nostalgic, then? The NA unashamedly cribbed the 60s British two-seater formula. But you don’t hear anyone complaining. That’s because the Miata has evolved over the years. In styling, refinement, power, engineering—but it’s never lost itself in its own hype. Mazda’s heart lies with that car, and the company knows this. Freed from Ford, the ND was free to be a return to basics, with rigorous updates. Not a play for money, but an honest-to-Zoom-Zoom fun sports car.

You can see the family resemblance. From left to right: 2019 Super Cub, 1980s C70, and an original 50.

Honda did the same with the new Super Cub. Like the first Cub, its mission is to make motorcycling easier for the masses. Some of its techniques are the same—small-capacity, single-cylinder engine, step-through design, centrifugal clutch—and some aren’t. Unlike the original, it’s got ABS, fuel injection, and a smart key instead of an ignition switch. But it’s still a throwback to the ideals of the original.

Throwbacks are everywhere. The Honda Monkey: young and old gawked over it at IMS. Dodge Challenger: perhaps THE defining example of an automotive throwback. Kawasaki WS800: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

The W800 made a lot of waves at IMS Chicago.

When is nostalgia OK, then, and when is it not?

Toyota is in a very different place than they were when the Mk IV Supra came out. The Toyota of that time was just past its Golden Age prime, securing its reputation for reliability. So too Honda, with its Type R’s. These companies are really only now re-discovering their celebrated mojo after decades of complacency. Reviewers wax nostalgic about Type R’s of old, comparing the new CTR with its predecessor. But here in the US, we only ever got a Type R, and only briefly. We never truly witnessed the CTR’s evolution. How can we be nostalgic about something we never experienced in its original state?

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (most relevant part starts around 4:20). The game is deliberately styled as an NES homage, but Ben never owned an NES as a kid. And yet, he felt something akin to nostalgia. If you aren’t familiar with the latest trends in video game design, pixelated throwbacks are all the rage. But why? Why deliberately handicap yourself to a specific color palette and old sound design? In today’s 1080p 8K Twitch-streaming world, why?

Funny thing Yahtzee noticed about Shovel Knight , though: parallax scrolling (background images move slower than foreground ones, to increase the illusion of depth). The NES couldn’t do that.

The 60s British roadsters leaked oil and rusted as soon as the sky clouded over. Not the Miata. The original W650 came with carbs; the new bike has fuel injection. Shovel Knight ’s developers limited themselves to the NES style, but improved it in ways Nintendo of the 70s and 80s could only dream of coding. Early games couldn’t sell on graphics or sound quality, but they cemented themselves in history because of gameplay .

Strip away fancy options and orchestral accompaniment, and you have the budget to play-test until your fingers bleed. Less time choosing colors means more time polishing jump mechanics. Nostalgia is good when it works and improves. When it takes what made the original amazing, and uses modern technology to bring that sensation to a modern audience.

Nostalgia, then, is good when it isn’t nostalgia. When it asks why something was desirable in the first place, instead of endlessly pining for it. When it doesn’t beg for what was , but remakes it for a new generation to experience and love.

DISCUSSION (14)

MonkeePuzzle > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 12:05

I can remember when nostalgia was good. it was eighteen dickety two.

marshknute > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 12:14

I think Toyota pulled it off with the new retro Tundra that harks back to the Gen-2:

Kinja'd!!!

Wait...[checks Wiki]...nvm, apparently It’s the same truck. T hey just haven’t replaced it since, like f ire was invented.

Expect the Gen-3 to hit showrooms sometime in 2046.

For Sweden > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 12:15

The Supra is good, for nostalgic and non-nostalgic reasons.

It won’t sell well, as I’d buy a C8 for the same cash.

HammerheadFistpunch > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 12:23

its funny that Toyota will simultaneously be bound by their roots on a supra so much that they’ll have BMW build one for them just to make it fit their mold, but wont give 2 shits about their heritage when it comes to the car that made them in America. The Land Cruiser ALWAYS had a straight 6 and for a lot longer than the supra did but they didn’t mind throwing that away. Hell, they are thinking of throwing out the whole thing according to rumors. Nah, the Supra exists and exists as a BMW because it was a cheap and easy way to build some buzz and get akio a pet project made. Its not a nostalgia thing, it was a convenience thing.

Textured Soy Protein > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 12:27

Toyota miscalculated on why people a re nostalgic for the Supra : styling, tuning capability, F&F, and lastly, it was the shining example of over-built Toyota quality. Toyota paired up with BMW because they’re the biggest name in the I6 game, but people who think of that Toyota quality also tend to view BMW quality very negatively.

Amoore100 > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 12:54

The Supra comes off as a bit lazy to me mostly because I feel like the outsourcing gives them the excuse of trying to maintain those nostalgic elements while simultaneously losing the idea of the original Supra in the first place. The Supra was meant to be the grand tourer from the everyman’s Japanese brand that used the same engines that came in everything from the Crown to the Altezza; the Toyota DNA ran so deep because it had to—if it wasn’t amazing, it would have been dismissed as just another also-ran from Japan. It showed the world what the Japanese could do with what were considered proletarian roots at the time.

That said, I feel like the RC and LC are what I consider today’s Supras: exquisite Toyota powerplants wrapped up in attractive grand tourer proportions—a bit of a shame that neither is turbocharged in their top forms, but again, nostalgia is sometimes a shackle and what matters is the preservation of the spirit. I’d totally buy an RC and slap some Toyota badges on it and perhaps rock some “Celica Supra” badges, letting the LC be the full-fat Supra in essence. Toyota still makes a Supra, it’s just not the one that bears that name.

Urambo Tauro > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 13:02

Nostalgia can be healthy, and it can be unhealthy. I like a lot of things that came out of the retro movement of the ’90s/’00s. But some things need to die, like the split rear window that show s up every once in a while on Corvette concept car s. It was dumb back then, and it continues to be a pointless obstacle against driver visibility now.

CobraJoe > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 13:32

Nostalgia, then, is good when it isn’t nostalgia.

You’re forgetting the main draw of nostalgic thing s:

They offer something the current offerings no longer have.

The point of nostalgia inspired design is not only to cater to those who miss the past, it’s also to offer a feeling that isn’t available in other products.

I’m not quite sure the new Supra does that effectively.

My bird IS the word > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 13:49

I dont get how it’s nostalgic. Outside of the name and powertrain layout it has no similarites to the OG supra in design, marketing, and value proposition.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > CobraJoe
10/24/2019 at 16:38

This is a great answer.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 16:41

The Nostalgia for me is the lack of things on an older vehicle. I’m not a big tech fan, nor do I enjoy my vehicle trying to do things for me, so when I can grab a pretty analog vehicle I enjoy it.

It’s also the reason that despite owning a 2018, my 1994 and 1995 are still my main drivers, I hate the lack of visibility ( which is amazing compared to most new vehicles ) and the added distractions in my 2018. My old cars are simple, effective, and keep me in touch with what’s going on around me.

Shift24 > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 17:03

My main problem with the supra’s nostalgia is that it was all based around the motor. Yes the body is iconic but the motor is legendary

And Toyota sublets that part out to BMW. Which makes a good I-6, but not the legendary 2jz or even 1jz good.

More than anything with the new supra, everyone wanted to know what motor it was going to use. And if Toyota had developed their own i-6 you would get “is that a Supra? Nope just a BMW with a Toyota badge”

It could have made 100hp+ less than the z4 and people would have still bought it because of Toyota’s reliability. The B58 will be a good motor but it will be plagued by oil leaks and cheap plastic breaking around 100k.

For Toyota that’s just breaking it in.

wkiernan > Scouting For Zen
10/24/2019 at 18:12

That was a pretty good article, but it included one fact that I found u n p l e a s a n t :

a smart key instead of an ignition switch

T h e Super Cub shouldn’ t h a v e a & $ % ^ # @ “ s m a r t k e y , ” i t s h o u l d h a v e a key that’ s n i c e a n d s t u p i d a n d simple and all- m e c h a n i c a l w i t h n ot even one m i c r o p r o c e s s o r .

B_dol > Scouting For Zen
10/25/2019 at 10:46

Great read. I agree the ND Miata is a fantastic overhaul and wild improvement over the early gen Miatas folks are nostalgic for. No doubt it still ruffles feathers for a select few.

The modern NSX and Supra are victim to these nostalgic sentiments. In both cases the actual cars are well engineered, a joy to drive and poised well for the modern age they compete in. Enthusiasts need to get off their internet couch, 95% of them are not in the market to buy the new car anyway - nor did they buy the original car new!

Lusting after a gently modded NSX/Supra/Miata is certainly not owning a bone stock car from new.