Optimal Offroad Deminsions?

"LoneCoyote" (1lonecoyote) 01/29/2019 at 19:05 • Filed to: Dirt, moab, rubicon, jeep, offroad, build

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Hello all,

I have been contemplating the best base vehicle for an off-road build, but have a question for those who run trails in Utah and Colorado (mainly, but others welcome of course!)

I have been looking at a bunch of photos and watching a ton of videos about trails out in that region. I live in Michigan, so I’m not going to be driving there all the time, but would like to build something I could road trip and use out there. I have seen that there are a lot of off-road tunnels. Is there a maximum height that all you experienced people can recommend?

Thanks!

Nibby > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 19:11

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off road in a stanced miata

atfsgeoff > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 19:12

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When it comes to off road, the smaller/lighter your ride, the more places you will fit.

Hummer H1 > Jeep Wrangler > Suzuki Samurai > ATV > adventure bike > dirt bike

For Sweden > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 19:14

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These dimensions

HammerheadFistpunch > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 19:15

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Its not so much a height issue, in Utah at least...I can’t think of a single place height will be a restriction outside of very very tall which you obviously don’t want.

As for a base vehicle...man this could go many ways.

Will you do mostly long distance stuff? or Hardcore? Do road manners matter at all? Budget? What are you looking to do for build - Bolt ons or more extreme?

I’ve only driven underground once or twice off-road in Utah and I’ve always had plenty of clearance in the Cruiser.

CRider > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 19:16

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nermal > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 19:25

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You’re gonna need something with at least 40s.

Just make sure you take a chainsaw and a shovel. That should cover most situations you may find yourself in. 

vicali > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 19:27

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Anyone have a tape measure?

LoneCoyote > HammerheadFistpunch 01/29/2019 at 19:29

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That’s awesome- I’m into pretty heavy fabrication, so I am looking to build something from scratch, but have seen some tight tunnels on mining trails I’ve watched some videos of. As an example, the FC pictured must be at least 90 inches tall, as a stock FC back in the day was 78. If I wanted to build a FC on 35s, a overall height of 85 inches might be a little too much.

This also has to deal with tight canyon passes that put you off camber as well. I’ve also watched close calls due to that as well.

LoneCoyote > nermal 01/29/2019 at 19:31

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Yea, no, but kinda. My research has told me that full-size rigs would not make it, and wouldn’t >be fun< on the rubicon.

HammerheadFistpunch > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 19:34

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“This also has to deal with tight canyon passes that put you off camber as well. I’ve also watched close calls due to that as well.”

This is where you mostly get into trouble.

What trails are you looking at?

My advice for builds is low lift, big tires, and as small and tidy as your gear and wants allow. 

AestheticsInMotion > Nibby 01/29/2019 at 21:26

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Can confirm, this is the correct answer

Berang > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 21:31

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The shorter your wheelbase, the less you have to worry about ground clearance.

Milky > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 21:44

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Just get a wrangler, you can have a lot of fun at the Silver Lake sand dunes too.  

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 22:19

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WK Grand Cherokee 5.7 or SJ Wagoneer 360 with a Dana . They always have been and always will be the kings of all-arounders. Both will off-road with the best of them, both have very good road manners for long highway drives and daily use .

SJ may require a small lift, WK should not be lifted but will require more armoring. “BUT THOSE HAVE IFS AND IFS CAN’T OFFROAD!” Yeah. Wrong. IFS is just different. The SJ and WK are fully capable of tripodding and rock-crawling.

This WK has no lift, factory wheels, factory tires, and the 3.7 (Laredo badge.) Upgrading shocks, struts, and springs is generally advisable, but that’s about it. 5.7 Limited gets you QD2 (which has 4Lo) with ELSDs, and a LOT more torque.

And there isn’t a Wrangler built that will keep up with the full body family in snow, period. They don’t have the weight to hold. The only way you get them stuck in snow is completely inappropriate equipment or incompetent driving.

With a fabrication focus, the SJ will tend to be the better candidate. However, it will also be the expensive candidate. WKs are unibody and rail reinforcement positions are pretty slim pickings, but engine and transmission are cheap, plentiful, and easy to upgrade.  
SJ’s a BOF ladder rail with lots of places to weld, but you can count decent engine shops on your hands with fingers left over. And the SJ is going to need restoration, whereas the WK won’t. Also, QuadraTrac is the financial kiss of death in the SJ.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > LoneCoyote 01/29/2019 at 22:28

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My only observation is that a vehicle built for serious off roading is rarely a good thing to road trip in. And the reverse is also true.

Mogwaidtd > LoneCoyote 01/30/2019 at 00:20

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How many people in your convoy? Plan to camp? Do you like to setup shop and stay in one place for a whole or move around? What’s your budget? How good are you at trail repairs? Do you like to travel fast or take it slow? The only thing I would say based on the limited info you’ve given is that a full size truck is not what you want. And no matter what you get and build you can’t have your cake and eat it too. You’ll spend 95% of the time on the road getting too and from cool trails. Oh and you don't need tires bigger than 35s. 

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > nermal 01/30/2019 at 00:28

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Well you wouldn’t make many turns on trails in that, even the four door Wranglers are having trouble VS the shorter vehicles. 

Qurtyslyn > LoneCoyote 01/30/2019 at 01:05

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Volkswagen Beetle. Problem solved. 

Tristan > LoneCoyote 01/30/2019 at 03:27

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Just buy a Wrangler, Tacoma, 4Runner or Cruiser. Or if you want something you have to lift 10 miles or hack to pieces to fit big tires that’s made of tinfoil and has a cramped interior, buy an XJ!

adamftw > LoneCoyote 01/30/2019 at 08:36

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If you’re going out west, a full size is just fine. East coast is where size matters, our trails are narrow.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > nermal 01/30/2019 at 09:09

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Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > LoneCoyote 01/30/2019 at 09:16

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I was going to suggest starting with something with a large aftermarket catalog, like a Jeep. However if you’re down for fabricating your own, the world is your oyster (but... in a good way...). I (and I assume the rest of us) would love to see an uncommon offroad build. Not like... a Mercedes CLK offroad build... though I’m sure we’d also love that, but a competent SUV or truck that commonly gets overlooked when hardcore builds are done. 1st and 2nd gen Pathfinder comes to mind, though they may be a little long for what you’re looking for.

From the fabrication angle, the thing I’d be most worried about is alternative gearing. If you’re increasing from smallish stock tires to 33s or above, you’re going to lose a lot of low end grunt. Some guys will replace their diffs with different ratios or replaced/ add a 2nd transfer case to get that grunt (and then some) back. I say all that to say I’d look into the availability and practicality of that sort of thing for whatever vehicle you choose.

I hope some of that made sense... I haven’t had my coffee yet...

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > HammerheadFistpunch 01/30/2019 at 09:18

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Alright Mr Tippy.  Also that rear articulation makes me jealous.  I think the Disco would have ended up on its side in that situation haha.

vicali > HammerheadFistpunch 01/30/2019 at 11:13

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My advice for builds is low lift, big tires, and as small and tidy

^Yes, do this.. My buddy builds the sickest rigs, this is his pattern and it works a treat;

Mini Guy- Now has a 4Runner > LoneCoyote 01/30/2019 at 12:33

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old ford raptor

Mini Guy- Now has a 4Runner > vicali 01/30/2019 at 12:34

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can you give me more info  on that 2nd gen 4runner

Tapas > LoneCoyote 01/30/2019 at 12:48

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Suzuki Samurai/Jimny or Dodge Raider or Ariel Nomad.

My vote goes to the Nomad, but its a bit pricey :(

vicali > Mini Guy- Now has a 4Runner 01/30/2019 at 14:14

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He goes by Rickashay

4th gen V8? That’s RickRunner;

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/227854-%2A%2A-rickrunner-build%2A%2A.html

His 3rd gen was DirtDuster;

Pintek > Tapas 01/30/2019 at 15:49

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Important a jimny with the extended tintop and throw some samurai axles as the jdm market ones use a narrower axle. 

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > vicali 01/30/2019 at 16:29

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Hey, my coworkers husband is looking to sell his 2012 taco with 5 speed. Not sure in trim, but it isn’t a TRD.

90,000km and we'll maintained.  He doesn't know what he has, probably would let it go cheap.  Know anyone who would be interested? I wish I could

vicali > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/30/2019 at 17:02

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Double Cab? have him put it fs on the BC toy 4x4 page on fb;

www.facebook.com/groups/BCToyota4wd

They’ll do the rest..

Mini Guy- Now has a 4Runner > LoneCoyote 01/31/2019 at 08:29

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Hamtractor > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 02/04/2019 at 14:15

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“BUT THOSE HAVE IFS AND IFS CAN’T OFFROAD!” Yeah. Wrong. IFS is just different. The SJ and WK are fully capable of tripodding and rock-crawling.

While technically correct, you CAN rock-crawl or off-road an IFS machine, the reason we don’t like IFS is the durability factor.  When you want a machine that will crawl all day and still drive home, solid axles are your best option.  Especially when you start adding bigger tires, more torque, etc.  Hell, that’s why we swap one-tons into our rigs...