I'm going back to Europe, I want to see some cars

"Nauraushaun" (nauraushaun12) 01/22/2019 at 04:46 • Filed to: None

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Spyker, Koenigsegg, TVR.

Picture takes me way back. I remember hoarding images of this car when I was a teen

I’ll be doing regular tourism and beer tourism and food tourism and I want to do car tourism. Last time I was over I was short on time ( thanks, Contiki) though I did briefly glimpse a TVR in London from a distance.

This time I’d like to see more. I’ve got 2 months total. The manufacturers themselves don’t seem to have their own museums which is fair, as they’re small and 2 of them are borderline- dead at best. I’ve found a museum, the Louwman, that has a collection of Spykers but they’re all pre-war which isn’t my fancy. I wonder, where is the C12 La Turbie? The D12 Peking to Paris? I’d take a more pedestrian Spyker too, it would be cool to see any.

Any help I can get from Europpos will be appreciated. I’ve got a loose schedule at the moment, anything in a city would be good. For instance, it’s going to be a lot easier for me to do touristing in London or Paris than it is Birmingham or...I dunno, the countryside.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 05:09

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when are you going?

Svend > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 05:14

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If you happen to visit the U.K. again. You simply must visit Gaydon’s, British Motor Museum.

They say they are the world’ s largest collection of historic cars.

Around 300 cars on site. 

https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/

If you time it right you can be there during a car show/meet as car clubs from all over often have shows in the car park out front.

Nauraushaun > Svend 01/22/2019 at 05:36

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That’s cool, thanks! I’ll add it to the list.

I’m a little worried it'll be a bit too Leyland for me. I sort of... Loath those cars. But I'll see what they've got. A local car meet would be fantastic.

Nauraushaun > pip bip - choose Corrour 01/22/2019 at 05:36

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July to Sept. I get long service leave from work so I’m going to spend a heap of time doing things that aren't work

Svend > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 06:09

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There is quite a bit of BL in there. It’s British car history and BL played a part for some time but their are non BL vehicles as well as vehicles from before and after BL.

Further up, Jaguar and Land Rover do tours of the factory and of there classic restoration programme.

https://www.landrover.com/experiences/manufacturing-tours/index.html

BvdV - The Dutch Engineer > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 06:26

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I can strongly recommend the Louwman Museum, they have a truly amazing collection, spanning all kinds of cars and brands . Cite d’Automobile in Mulhouse is amazing too, lots of quirky French cars and Bugattis.

Most Spykers are hidden in private collections, sometimes a few come out but not that often. For example I saw this Spyker C8 Zagato last week at an oldtimer show :

Nauraushaun > Svend 01/22/2019 at 15:51

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Excellent, thanks!

Nauraushaun > BvdV - The Dutch Engineer 01/22/2019 at 15:54

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Zagatooooo, wow.

Oh I love quirky French cars! That’s going on the list. That actually looks perfect, thank you.

Svend > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 16:46

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No worries. While the BL era wasn’t great in fact in the most part it was self destructive, there was some interesting things to come out of it.

But still enough otherwise to keep you entertained. 

Nauraushaun > Svend 01/22/2019 at 17:02

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Interesting is good! I’m all about interesting. But I recently realized I prefer happy stories, like the 2CV or DS. The later XM is beautiful and fascinating, but reading about missed targets and general decline is so deflating.

Svend > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 17:55

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Even looking at Rover alone, why the end story is sad (unfortunately it’s the same as many other companies through the ages, around the world), they had some amazing stuff like rocket propelled MGs, MG ZT-Ts they raced on the Utah Salt Flats, etc...

There is also the Aircraft Museum (but I'd have to look up where it is exactly as I'm at work on my mobile), full of amazing aviation history. Then there's train museums up and down the U.K. with I think the best being in York. 

Nauraushaun > Svend 01/22/2019 at 19:00

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But I think amazing stuff like that only gets you so far, when your goal is to mass produce vehicles that people want to own. The absurd  inefficiency of these organisations and their tendency to produce cars of appalling quality, it’s not a story I enjoy hearing. It’s like GM taken to the nth degree. Land speed record cars grab the public’s attention, but it won’t make them buy a terrible car.

Svend > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 19:33

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On the main thing to their downfall was build quality. During the BL years there was a lot of economic upheaval and unions become more militant, which affected production unfortunately. 

Nauraushaun > Svend 01/22/2019 at 20:26

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Individual model lines that were similarly sized were therefore competing against each other, yet were never discontinued nor were model ranges rationalised quickly enough; in fact the policy of having multiple models competing in the same market segment continued long after the merger – for instance BMH’s MGB remained in production alongside LMC’s Triumph TR6 , the Rover P5 competed with the Jaguar XJ , whilst in the medium family sector, the Princess was in direct competition with upscale versions of the Morris Marina and cheaper versions of the Austin Maxi , meaning that economies of scale resulting from large production runs could never be realised. 

I’ve read this too. Spending all this time and resources to design/manufacture poor cars that compete against each other. It’s just shooting yourself in the foot. Throwing money away.

Svend > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 20:57

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Yes, but you can understand why they did that. Jobs were being lost and companies being swallowed up. They didn’t want to close down a marque, missing thousands of jobs, jobs they were getting money from government to try and keep.

You still see it in today.

Like VAG, with SEAT, Skoda, VW and Audi competing for the same customers in the same segments (ie SEAT Leon, VW Golf, Skoda Octavia and Audi A3), while having badge engineered same vehicles (ie SEAT Toledo and Skoda Rapid. Then there’s the SEAT Mii, Skoda Citigo and VW UP).

Renault selling the Renault Duster and the Dacia Duster in the same market.

Closing a marque is the last thing anyone wants to do, especially when your the manager for that particular marque. 

Nauraushaun > Svend 01/22/2019 at 21:12

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I suppose you’re right. But ultimately all those marques died anyway, I guess because they were blinded by a need to “keep them going”. It’s ironic ;)

And both Dodge and Fiat selling the same Journey here, one marketing it as Italian flair, the other as American brawn. Stupidity. And it worked as you’d expect - Dodge has now withdrawn from Australia, and Fiat pretty much just sells 500 family cars.

The difference I think for VAG at least is that it works. They’re not running all these failing brands, digging themselves a hole that will result in certain bankruptcy. It seems to me they’re all doing well enough , even Skoda somehow. And it’s because they’re not terrible cars.

Svend > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 22:20

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Ye’, it was a different era, militant workers and unions, too many marque’s that were up against them , a lot more workers, changing technological times (were weren’t the most open to change, when the 40' and 80' containers came about, Britain’s dock workers objected to them as they still used the pallet in a net slung under a crane hook. They thought it’d take their jobs, it did, but if you embrace change soon enough you can adapt quicker as your not playing catch up).

Management is a strange game.

The other year when VW production slowed down a little, Skoda was doing very well. Some at Wolfsburg objected and said that Skoda should pass some of the production to them. 

Nauraushaun > Svend 01/22/2019 at 22:30

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Funny, I was reading about intermodal containers for the first time ever last night, I know nothing of them. Maybe that’s a good metaphor for the attitude of the industry at the time. Trying to reject these hugely efficient containers on the basis of keeping your job is lunacy, some storms you just can’t fight. Like...keeping open a bunch of failing brands to keep jobs...

You’re right though, you gotta embrace the change and adapt.

Hey I guess that makes sense. VW had production facilities but no brand strength, they may as well produce for the stronger brand.

Svend > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 23:32

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Those containers were a massive change for the transportation of goods. It meant there was two standard sizes, could be interlocked securely for transport on high seas or securely attached to an appropriate trailer reducing the number of times a product needed to be handled, reduced breakages, reduced theft, etc... which is why the designer made it open licence so others could build identical containers and they would all be intercompatable.

Genius. 

MiniGTI - now with XJ6 > Nauraushaun 01/22/2019 at 23:55

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I was in Rochester in 2003 and saw a TVR Tuscan parked on the street but it was before I knew what it was so I regret not appreciating it more.

Nauraushaun > Svend 01/23/2019 at 16:54

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It’s perfect! It’s the reason we can buy books and phones and cars and everything from overseas relatively cheaply! It’s lead to so much globalization, it’s made the world a better place.

Which is why a few disgruntled stevedores trying to resist it to keep their jobs is so ridiculous!

Svend > Nauraushaun 01/23/2019 at 17:21

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I wouldn't say ridiculous. They are trying to keep in work as they know it. Unfortunately many people are opposed to change, as unfortunately change ultimately means either less work and/or less people required to do it.

Those containers are being used all over the world as emergency accommodation up to luxury family homes (with a little fettling of course)m

Nauraushaun > Svend 01/23/2019 at 21:56

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I guess you’re right, it just seems absurd to stop something that is quite clearly a huge leap forwards. It’s like trying to resist computers, or cars, or...I dunno, cheap vaccinations.