On the Pledge- What's Happening in Texas?

"I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker" (qaaaaa)
09/27/2018 at 11:00 • Filed to: None

Almost a year ago, a girl in Texas remained sitting during the Pledge of Allegiance. Her reasoning is that the pledge does not seem to apply to her. Whether you agree with that statement doesn’t really matter- it’s not something worth digging into on Oppo. However, being that this is America and we generally don’t respect peaceful protest, the school’s principal pulled her from class and she was expelled from the school. For sitting during the pledge.

The girl who was expelled, India Landry, has sued the school district for violating her freedom of speech and right to due process. Many have pointed out that the school district has a policy that students who don’t want to stand for the pledge are allowed to sit- on the condition that a note is provided by their parent or legal guardian permitting them to exercise a constitutional right.

The Attorney General of Texas has come out and said that he believes that this is legal. Even though he is the AG for the state, he is dead-to-rights wrong on this one. Per the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

DO I HAVE TO SAY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE?

No. The Supreme Court has held that it is just as much a violation of your First Amendment rights for the government to make you say something you don’t want to say as it is for the government to prevent you from saying what you do want to say. You have a right to remain silently seated during the pledge.

All students have a constitutional right to protest in school, as long as it does not interfere with the goings on of the classroom. Sitting during the pledge does not interfere with the classroom. It is tangentially, if at all, related to schoolwork.

Side note- throughout highschool, I said the pledge exactly zero times. There weren’t even flags in most of the classrooms. I didn’t really realize that it was so commonplace outside of Elementary schools.

So why did the Texas AG come out in support of the pledge? Simple. The AG is an elected official in Texas, and elections are coming up. He’s just playing off of the D/R polarization and the Nationalistic tendencies of his constituents. The whole thing reeks of bad politics at the expense of a young girl’s education.

DISCUSSION (100)

Maxima Speed > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:06

TO chime in with my personal opinion here. I do not say the pledge of allegiance and do not put my hand over my heart during its recitation however I feel that out of respect I should stand. So I stand at attention without hand over heart. I do hand over heart for national anthem as I don’t feel it is the same as an actual pledge of allegiance. Ive always been of the opinion that while we don’t owe an oath of allegiance to our government we should respect the government and our laws.

That said I dont follow speed limits :P Guess I'm a hypocrite.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:07

ive always felt reciting the pledge is some creepy dictatorship shit.... indoctrination if you will...

and yes.. judge is wrong...but texas... so not all that surprising... sucks for the kid tho

random001 > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:08

I think the expense is much much greater than the one girl’s education. We’re all headed in a bad direction over crap like this. I don’t care if I agree or disagree with her decision to sit, because I’ll fight till the end for her freedom to make that choice.

OPPOsaurus WRX > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:08

I know there i s a lot of good people i n texas but theres also a good portion that should try to se ce de again and we can just say good luck do nt let the door hit you on t he way out.

Just Jeepin' > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:12

When I was in middle school I asked my teacher why the pledge said “republic”, since I thought we were a democracy. She didn’t know what a republic was.

The pledge is absolutely indoctrination. Teach kids what it means first, then give them the opportunity to take it.

For Sweden > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:13

You do not have to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance

You do have to stand for the sound of an American V8

Ash78, voting early and often > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:14

She shouldn’t have been singled out, but part of me also wonders how much parental puppetry is at work here. A lot of “activist parents” tend to make a big show out of pushing their own agendas through their kids, which can make it into a bigger deal than it needs to be. If she was truly sitting quietly, that should be respected. A note from your parents? Ridiculous.

I used to be an atheist, so I would say the pledge just to keep the peace, but leave out the Under God part. Nobody every noticed and I never felt forced or indoctrinated. It’s just like saying a school motto or pledge. In a public school where the taxpayers are funding your education, I feel like people should be urged — but not forced — to at least go along with the idea (or sit it out quietly). It’s really just an opening ceremony to the day, like singing a song at camp or whatever. It creates structure, along with the morning announcements, etc. Now if they asked us to say it at the start of every period, now we’re bordering on cult territory...

Monkey B > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:15

honestly, making children pledge allegiance to anything i s antiquated and reminds me of shit that happens in countries run by dictators.

“one nation, under God”...separation of church and state you say? If I’m remem bering correctly, wasn’t it in the 50's that the pledge came about along with God on our money? If I’m right it makes the 50's suck that much more. Baby boomers are largely responsible for Trump. Ignorantly stubborn to change and at the very bottom of shit like thi s story.

Even more, it’s not even remotely accurate. Liberty and justice for all huh?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:15

Patriotism is a sacred expression.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:16

Yeah, there’s no reason why she shouldn’t be in school. Expelling her was a big mistake, hopefully the ACLU makes the district pay for it.

Sadly, public schools don’t have money to throw around, so this will end up costing everyone. Sounds like the school admins who expelled her need to get kicked out themselves.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > random001
09/27/2018 at 11:16

I’d never burn a flag, either, but I would fight vigorously for your right to do so.

On the POA, I’ll generally stand, but I don’t recite it. Like prayer, expressions of patriotism are sacred and individual.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Just Jeepin'
09/27/2018 at 11:17

And it’s not even spoken as it’s written.

Ash78, voting early and often > For Sweden
09/27/2018 at 11:17

Putting one hand over your heart and the other saluting. If you cover your ears, you’re expelled.

Spanfeller is a twat > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:18

“being that this is America and we generally don’t respect peaceful protest”

I don’t mean to bitch about this... but I really need to bitch about this.

Nowadays America must be one of the nations with the most protections to protest and free speech in the world.

On the other hand, there’s a really good podcast about this. It’s Roman Mars’ “what Trump can teach us about con law” Specifically episode 12; the right to dissent.

Also, I went to an American school, on mondays we had a flag ceremony with the Mexican and American flag. I stayed silent during the US anthem and I didn’t put my hand over my heart. When asked why, I said I felt it was disrespectful to pledge allegiance if I don’t live/come from the US.

Monkey B > Maxima Speed
09/27/2018 at 11:19

the national anthem is pride, it’s lyrics invoke it. The pledge is inaccurate, for one, and is akin to propaganda.

Sovande > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:21

Did you read all the facts about this case?

The school rules state stand, or get a note from a parent if you wish not to stand during the Pledge. She didn’t stand and did not have a note. She was expelled (which is kooky) and then let back into school a few days later.

I am not on the side of those wishing to tell people what to believe in or support, or how they will show that sup port, but a t least get all the facts into the post or it’s just hand wringing and stirring the pot.

ttyymmnn > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:23

Yes. The “under God” part was added to differentiate us from the Godless Communists.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Just Jeepin'
09/27/2018 at 11:23

The pledge is where nationalism starts. I remember in kindergarten we would say the pledge, then afterwards the teacher would lead us in “My Country ‘Tis of Thee”- there were multiple flags in the room. In middle school, when I took German, we actually said the Pledge of Allegiance... in German. Interpret that as you will.

Indoctrinating kids into a Nationalist culture is, in my view, contrary to what it means to be an American. We should love our country because of what’s good about it- our incredible parks, a government we can participate in, and a society that’s progressive in comparison to many other parts of the world. We should not be teaching kids to love America based on platitudes and peer pressure.

Maxima Speed > Monkey B
09/27/2018 at 11:25

My problem is that loyalty to the flag of the nation, is not the same as loyalty to the ideal of the nation. A pledge to the constitution would be less dystopian IMO as it’s the basis of the country. Still not sure I would pledge allegiance to it but I would be more inclined to do so.

ttyymmnn > Maxima Speed
09/27/2018 at 11:25

Interestingly, the National Anthem is also a song about a flag, flying over a now-dilapidated fort during an obscure battle in a largely forgotten war.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:26

There is also freedom of and from religion so the whole one nation under god thing.... we don’t all believe there is a god or believe in the same god (about 3 billion Buddhists , Hindus , and Islams).

ttyymmnn > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:26

In Texas, we also pledge to the Texas flag: “Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible.” It’s creepy.

fintail > Sovande
09/27/2018 at 11:28

The rules are then moronic, which can be a given with the location.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Monkey B
09/27/2018 at 11:28

BuT wE’rE a ChRiStIaN nAtIoN

nermal > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:29

This crap has a tendency to get blown completely out of proportion.

There are certain things done in the US to show respect to the country - Standing for the pledge or anthem, not letting flags touch the ground, not setting them on fire, etc.

Not taking part in showing respect for the country is by definition disrespectful, but also not illegal because the US has GODDAM FREEDOM. There are some types of people that get their underwear wadded up at these signs of disrespect, and others still that get their underwear wadded up because the first group got their underwear wadded up.

My guess is that this student was raised by liberal weenie suburbanite assholes, and has never faced a struggle at any point in their existence. This is simply a cry for attention, since they saw fooseball players doing it on TV and they got loads of attention.

It’s also a case of the Streissand Effect in practice. If you just ignore it, it will go away. If you make a yuuuuuge deal out of it, it will become an even yuuuuger deal.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Sovande
09/27/2018 at 11:31

I wrote that in the post, didn’t I? That wasn’t the main point. The point was this- such a rule, and what the AG said, are actually contrary to the Constitution and a ruling by the Supreme Court.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Spanfeller is a twat
09/27/2018 at 11:34

I’ll give that a listen, thanks. And yeah, it would definitely be a weird situation to be in another country in a room full of people pledging allegiance to a country you have no allegiance to. Actually, that’s probably how this girl felt. She is Black in America. She does not believe her rights are respected to the same levels as others. So why would she pledge allegiance to a country that does not treat her with the same respect as others?

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)
09/27/2018 at 11:35

I believe it is standard practice for a school district to have insurance policies that pay for litigation against the school. That said, it will still be a stress on taxpayers.

Just Jeepin' > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
09/27/2018 at 11:38

How so? You mean the addition of “under God” in the 50s?

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > nermal
09/27/2018 at 11:38

Or, she’s a member of a group that has been marginalized in this country since 1776 and one prominent member of that group started a peaceful protest, and she’s following suit, not just in solidarity with that protest but also protesting on her own behalf.

Just Jeepin' > ttyymmnn
09/27/2018 at 11:39

an obscure battle in a largely forgotten war

...that we lost.

Just Jeepin' > nermal
09/27/2018 at 11:41

has never faced a struggle at any point in their existence

Yeah, a black girl from a black family in Texas has never faced any racism. Or seen people who look like them gunned down in cold blood by “law” enforcement.

For Sweden > ttyymmnn
09/27/2018 at 11:41

largely forgotten war

When was the last time you were in Canada?

Spanfeller is a twat > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:42

It’s specially ironic because most foreigners in my school weren’t American, they were South Korean. At one point I even asked if they would hoist the South Korean flag once every two weeks instead of the American for these guys , I was told to go fuck a camel basically. They told me that the US represented “a global perspective ” and that because of that they could hoist its flag to represent all nations. In fact you could notice all foreigners holding their hand to their heart when they hoisted the American flag but not saluting the Mexican one . I don’t think they read that much into it... at least not as much as I did.

It’s part of the irony I find in the US... Specially with politics, and rights as you say.

The Republicans are the most patriotic but want the least government interference (even if it’s to aid their own citizens)

The Democrats are the least patriotic but want a larger government .

Go figure.

ttyymmnn > Just Jeepin'
09/27/2018 at 11:43

Eh, it was perhaps more of a draw. Though the British gained the upper hand, both sides had had enough and called it off , realizing that trading with one another was more beneficial than killing one another, a lesson that could be learned again today.

ttyymmnn > For Sweden
09/27/2018 at 11:43

What is “Canada”?

Sovande > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:43

No, you wrote she was expelled but failed to mention that they then changed their minds and let her back into the school.

Your main point was to drum up support for your views using this young woman as an example of someone being persecuted for standing up to what you see as an unjust rule. You drove that point home when you stated “ The whole thing reeks of bad politics at the expense of a young girl’s education.” When the fact is that she is still in school.

I think the rule is stupid too. I think the school obviously caused more commotion by pointing at her for not standing than they would have by ignoring it.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Just Jeepin'
09/27/2018 at 11:44

“She didn’t know what a republic was.” SMH...

Future next gen S2000 owner > Monkey B
09/27/2018 at 11:45

Yep. When the pledge was first written, “under God” was not in it. Also, “of the United States of America” was also not it in. “ Under God” was added in response to communism - which doesn’t make any sense.

The pledge as originally written:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

It was also intended to be used by multiple nations. That’s why the original doesn’t reference a country. So you could be from Georgia , say the same words and be pledging allegiance to Georgia and not the US.

CobraJoe > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:47

With Liberty and Justice for all.

I wonder if the AG even remembers the whole pledge.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:47

Yeah, but this seems like a pretty self inflicted wound. When the entire admin collectively does something unconstitutional I feel like the insurance may refuse to pay out.

jimz > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:48

this is nothing more than brain-dead adults insisting that because they had to do certain things when they were kids, we should keep making kids do them. Some time after Parkland I saw some moron Boomer on twitter claim that the reason they didn’t have school shootings when he was a kid is because they said the pledge every morning. Which is bullshit, he only recited it because he was told to just like every other kid. when I pointed out there was more to being patriotic than plastering US flag emojis on their twitter handle, he blocked me.

jimz > nermal
09/27/2018 at 11:50

it’s very telling that the people who most roar about “freedom” get the most bent out of shape when people who disagree with them exercise their freedom.

clearly they believe “Freedom for me, not for thee.”

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Ash78, voting early and often
09/27/2018 at 11:54

Eh, it’s pretty damn culty no matter what. I’ve also never understood why we start sporting events with the national anthem.

Just Jeepin' > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/27/2018 at 11:54

Yeah, this may or may not have been the same teacher who thought rivers couldn’t flow north because on a globe, north is up.

For Sweden > ttyymmnn
09/27/2018 at 11:55

It’s like a penal colony for Britain , but for the boring people.

DipodomysDeserti > ttyymmnn
09/27/2018 at 11:55

Mexico North

Funktheduck > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 11:55

If I remember correctly, the pledge wasn’t even said in school until the Cold War. Just like adding “under god” to it and to currency to fight those “godless” commies.

This also reminds me of elementary school. I had a friend that didn’t say the pledge for religious reasons. He’d stand with his hands behind his back. We had a sub teacher one day that started screaming at him because he refused to put his hand over his heart and recite the pledge. She sent him to the principal in tears.

DipodomysDeserti > For Sweden
09/27/2018 at 11:56

Witness Me.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Just Jeepin'
09/27/2018 at 11:59

And her job was completely secure. I don’t have much patience for teachers’ unions for this reason...

DipodomysDeserti > Spanfeller is a twat
09/27/2018 at 12:01

Should have hoisted the UN flag and played some anthem with kazoos.

Just Jeepin' > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/27/2018 at 12:04

I grew up with a family full of teachers. Going to have to disagree with you on this one: it’s hard enough finding people willing to go into a career like that for the crappy pay most teachers get . Incredibly stressful, my mom had to retire early, well before she could afford to, because even on anti-depressants she couldn’t take it any longer.

CobraJoe > nermal
09/27/2018 at 12:09

This crap has a tendency to get blown completely out of proportion.

...

Not taking part in showing respect for the country is by definition disrespectful, but also not illegal because the US has GODDAM FREEDOM.

...

You had a good post going, then you went off the rails there. These things do get blown out of proportion by people who confuse disrespect for a punishable offense, and the counter response is often overblown too.

But bringing the blame back to the kid because you assume she’s a “liberal weenie suburbanite asshole”? Seriously? If you’re complaining about the overreaction on both sides, why do you even care about the upbringing or political affiliation of the girl? You were just complaining about the people who get their underwear wadded up at a sign of disrespect, and then you go and join them!

It’s also a case of the Streissand Effect in practice. If you just ignore it, it will go away. If you make a yuuuuuge deal out of it, it will become an even yuuuuger deal.

Yeah, because ignoring accusations about racial inequality is the best way to deal with this situation. /s

random001 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
09/27/2018 at 12:10

Darn tootin’

random001 > Future next gen S2000 owner
09/27/2018 at 12:17

I lived there, so I understand the confusion, but despite how weird it is, Georgia is actually a state in the US. Just saying...

random001 > Spanfeller is a twat
09/27/2018 at 12:19

The problem with your statement has been corrected below:

America must be one of the nations with the most protections to protest and free speech in the world for certain people .

fintail > nermal
09/27/2018 at 12:20

IMO, worst take of the day, right there.

I’d wager the idiot overpaid overpensioned irresponsible untouchable AG in question has faced far far fewer “struggles” than the kid or her family. Another good so-called right bootstrapper who continually fails up, in a state defined by the concept.

random001 > Spanfeller is a twat
09/27/2018 at 12:22

What are you attempting to say here? I just think it’s categorically wrong to think republicans are patriots, and democrats aren’t. What’s the line you’re attempting to draw here?

The Republicans are the most patriotic but want the least government interference (even if it’s to aid their own citizens)

The Democrats are the least patriotic but want a larger government.

Brickman > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 12:22

I never said the pledge of allegiance on the last half of my school years. I was too lazy to say it, just stood up and put my hand on my chest, like everyone else :)

Future next gen S2000 owner > random001
09/27/2018 at 12:23

Georgia is also a country in Asia . Just saying....

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Just Jeepin'
09/27/2018 at 12:25

That sucks... Sorry to hear that. I’m sure not all teachers’ unions are bad, but there definitely are some that aren’t serving the kids by protecting teachers who aren’t fit for the role.

I just don’t like any situation (public or private) where poor performers are allowed to stay in their position for as long as they like. Think of all the kids whose education suffered because of that teacher.

random001 > Future next gen S2000 owner
09/27/2018 at 12:26

The joke here is that people from Georgia (The State) can easily be confused as people from another country. I do declare.

random001 > Ash78, voting early and often
09/27/2018 at 12:27

I used to be an atheist

Will you get better?

Future next gen S2000 owner > random001
09/27/2018 at 12:27

This is true.

Khalbali > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 12:31

When I was in high school 12 years ago a Muslim kid in my class refused to stand and the teacher gave him detention and also made him stand in front of everybody and recite it alone, and then was forced to apologize after. That same teacher ( our AP BIO TEACHER) legit thought that bats were reptiles and laid eggs. Not even making that up, we were stunned. At least he knew they weren’t birds? Anyhow, that’s what I think of w hen people get butthurt about the pledge or anthem, is the stupidest person I’ve ever met with a doctorate (in education not biology thankfully) thanks to being a wealthy white male. I’m a white m ale and I don’t participate either, not t hat I run into the pledge or e ven the anthem much anymore.

Svend > For Sweden
09/27/2018 at 12:32

America was a penal colony for Britain before Australia was, in fact we only stopped sending convicts because America got independence.

Something like 10% of people who went to America from Britain were convicts.

Wacko > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 12:32

the land of the free ain’t so free after all.

Free to do what we tell you to.

For Sweden > Svend
09/27/2018 at 12:33

Populations are defined by 10% yes

Just Jeepin' > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com
09/27/2018 at 12:34

Sure, I wish all of my teachers had been like Robin Williams from Dead Poets’ Society, but let’s face it: we don’t pay to attract the best and the brightest.

Kinja'd!!!

MonkeePuzzle > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 12:37

I like cars.

Just Jeepin' > random001
09/27/2018 at 12:41

Well, if patriotism is defined as “fuck the rest of the world”, then TAE has a point.

I’ll readily admit that if faced with a choice between my country and humanity as a whole , I’d rather see humanity succeed.

Svend > random001
09/27/2018 at 12:42

It’s also a country In Eastern Europe bordered by Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Turkey.

I recall an American complaining about seeing Georgia walk into the arena during the opening ceremony for the Olympics. They wrote, ‘WTF Georgia is a state, not a country’.

I had to laugh because it was the same Olympics that a U.S. network covering the opening ceremony said, ‘and here comes Austria into the arena, formerly a British penal colony’.

Roadster939 > Sovande
09/27/2018 at 12:43

It does not matter she was let back into school. The damage had already been done. This is not a person committing a mistake, then realizing it, and correcting it. This is an official organization passing and enforcing unconstitutional rules, and then backing off when they get publicly busted. I hope they get sued into bankruptcy and the principal and administrators sued individually so they have to pay lawyers out of pocket. And yes, taxpayers sh ould foot the bill for allowing that crap in their state/county.

random001 > Svend
09/27/2018 at 12:46

See follow on reply about the subject of the joke...

random001 > Just Jeepin'
09/27/2018 at 12:47

When you put it that way, sure, but I’m not sure I’d define it that way, personally.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Khalbali
09/27/2018 at 12:55

Wow, that’s... especially egregious. Total disrespect of Freedom of Religion.

Svend > For Sweden
09/27/2018 at 12:56

Not defined by them no, but that Britain sent convicts to America is often forgotten when people mention penal colonies or places Britain sent convicts.

For Sweden > Svend
09/27/2018 at 12:56

10% is often a forgettable number

Svend > random001
09/27/2018 at 13:00

Sorry but I r ead, ‘Georgia is actually a state in the US’. Rather than ‘Georgia is also the name of a state in the US’.

Svend > For Sweden
09/27/2018 at 13:02

Meh, it's just history I guess.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Sovande
09/27/2018 at 13:04

No, you wrote she was expelled but failed to mention that they then changed their minds and let her back into the school.

Source? I haven’t seen that in any of the sources I’ve read. I don’t doubt that she’s back in school, but it’s almost certainly at a different school.

Yes, I did interject my own analysis of the story at the end. My main point was not my analysis. My main point was debunking the idea that the AG has any ground to stand on.

I think the school obviously caused more commotion by pointing at her for not standing than they would have by ignoring it.

I agree.

Sovande > Roadster939
09/27/2018 at 13:07

I’d argue that the her reinstatement is pertinent to the OP’s assertions that this woman’s education was somehow put in jeopardy. It wasn’t. A mistake was made and then corrected. She then chose to sue and as a result, the school and the AG (since they are in this together as a public institution) are on the defensive and must do what they can to negate the fiscal impact that they are now facing.

And to be clear, she wasn’t punished for refusing to recite the pledge, she was punished for not following the rules that were in place at the school for a situation just like this. If the student doesn’t want to recite the pledge, fine, but they must have parental permission to do so. She didn’t.

Your solution to the overbearing rules is to sue the public schoo l system into bankruptcy? What, exactly, will that prove? I would think the best result would be a revision of the current rules to allow students to more easily, and less disruptively, engage in their individual rights.

Believe it or not, I am in support of India Landry’s rights to not say the Pledge. I could care less about nationalistic jingoism. What I am against is framing this particular case as something which it isn’t. This isn’t a hot button issue in the United States. This isn’t a watershed case which will lay bare the systemic squashing of the rights of children across this great land of ours. This is about a young woman who broke the admittedly dumb rules of a s chool system, was punished, had that punishment vacated, and then chose to sue because her rights were infringed upon. My guess is that she will lose. And my guess is that it will be the correct decision. You don’t get to pick and choose which rules you are going to follow based on which ones you like and don’t like. Invoking the constitution doesn’t make your case more valid.

Had she stood in the hallway and used obscenities and refused to stop, citing her 1st Amendment rights, she would have faced a similar consequence. In that instance would you argue that her rights were being denied?

Sovande > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 13:16

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/09/26/black-student-refused-recite-pledge-allegiance-challenging-texas-law-requiring-it/?utm_term=.e61d9343096c

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Everyone seems to think that it’s okay to break the rules they don’t agree with and that somehow they will be absolved by invoking the Constitution. That’s not how the world works.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

This is a case born out of convenient timing. Had she followed the simple rules the school had in place there would have been nothing to complain about. Instead, every single party involved has turned this non-story into national news for the benefit of whatever politi cal or social agenda they support. It’s ridiculous.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Just Jeepin'
09/27/2018 at 13:24

It’s a very fair point.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Sovande
09/27/2018 at 13:28

Huh. Don’t know why I couldn’t find that. It’s good that she’s back in school.

But... yeah, that is how the world works in America. You cannot call for rule of law and then violate the law. Forcing kids to stand and say the pledge is unconstitutional. Ergo, the AG is wrong. Had she followed the school’s rules, she would be unable to exercise her constitutional rights. It is a story because the school violated her rights. Should Ruby Bridges not have gone to school? She wouldn’t have been in the news if she just kept to the status quo and done what she was told.

Sovande > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 13:39

She is a minor under the care of the public school system during school hours. As such she is not the one making those decisions, her parents and the school system are. As such, they implemented a simple rule she would need to follow so she didn’t have to say the Pledge: bring a note from a parent.

Equating this with integrating schools is silly. Ruby Bridges was used as a pawn in a much larger struggle. She was 6 when her parents volunteered her to be the face of the NAACP’s integration movement.

facw > Sovande
09/27/2018 at 13:43

Had she followed the simple rules the school had in place there would have been nothing to complain about.

This is bullshit. She has a right to freedom of speech, which has been confirmed by the Supreme Court in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette . The fact some petty authoritarian wants to enforce such nonsense has no bearing. She did exactly the right thing. Free speech is not free if you have to ask someone’s permission .

Spanfeller is a twat > random001
09/27/2018 at 14:04

I think Republicans typically want to protect rights and people in a way that revolves around the perceived national identity (personal responsibility, strong borders, gun rights, rural areas, Christianity ) of t he US.

Democrats typically want to protect rights and people in a way that revolves around protecting and making society more inclusive (freedom of speech, immigration reform, gun control, freedom of religion, etc) into the US.

Of course you can find all those values in both parties, but I think Republicans want to protect an established i dea where democrats want to protect a possible idea what the US is and isn’t . It’s the basic idea of conservatism vs progressivism.

If we return to my original comment,

It’s the AG of a Republican state that doesn’t want to let a child (which happens to be of color, but it doesn’t matter, I hope) express one of her constitutional rights. My suspicion based on everything I’ve studied about US politics is that this wouldn’t have happened in a liberal state. Even if we go into the weeds of the case, how the hell does a district school rule end up in the AGs office? if that isn’t selective enforcement, I don’t know what is!

In a liberal state with a liberal AG, I suspect the girl would’ve been allowed to do this practice. Plus, Consevatives are the ones that have always been obsessed with national identity if you need any clue just compare and contrast how Carter lead the country compared to Reagan. It doesn’t mean Carter is not patriotic, it just means Reagan was always better at expressing this ideal of the US.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Sovande
09/27/2018 at 14:05

...A simple rule which is still unconstitutional. I'm not sure why you're making that point. It's not for debate- that mandate is illegal.

Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now) > Spanfeller is a twat
09/27/2018 at 14:13

You’re confusing patriotism and nationalism. Patriotism isn’t blind, nationalism is.

Spanfeller is a twat > Bman76 (hates WS6 hoods, is on his phone and has 4 burners now)
09/27/2018 at 14:25

Hmm. I think so. I use them interchangeably at times, I should correct that.

random001 > Svend
09/27/2018 at 14:28

Joke is that Georgia the state is effin weird, and can easily be confused as a different country entirely, despite the fact that it is a state.

random001 > Spanfeller is a twat
09/27/2018 at 14:30

I think this is why I questioned your statement.

Svend > random001
09/27/2018 at 14:34

I think there are a few states like that.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Just Jeepin'
09/27/2018 at 15:56

I pledge a Legiance.

To the flag.

Of the United States of America.

And to the Republic.

For which it stands.

One nation.

Under God.

Indivisible.

With Liberty and Justice for all.

It ain’t written that way. Sounds like a bunch of robots, phrase by phrase.

Sam > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 16:11

nermal > CobraJoe
09/27/2018 at 16:23

To clarify, I do think it is a cry for attention from the student and not sincere . M y guess surrounding their upbringing may be a smidgen hyperbolic.

The reference to the Streissand Effect was in how the AG and the school are making a bigger deal than necessary out of the entire situation.

Khalbali > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker
09/27/2018 at 16:23

It actually wasn’t really religious, the kid was atheist and just kind of a smartass fuck the system type , I just used Muslim ( poorly) to indicate he was of middle eastern descent, but I’m sure some of it had to do with his ethnicity for sure, I just don’t remember exactly where his family was from, he was born here though.

nermal > fintail
09/27/2018 at 16:24

It’s a fabulous take! Just a cynical one.

CobraJoe > nermal
09/27/2018 at 17:09

To clarify, I do think it is a cry for attention from the student and not sincere. My guess surrounding their upbringing may be a smidgen hyperbolic.

Now, I completely agree that this was very much an overreaction ( Primarily by the school) , and shouldn’t have been commented on by the AG . It shouldn’t have even started the numerous opinions that are going on on this thread.

But your reaction is quite extreme too . You are assuming the motivation of the student (while also dismissing their opinion based on their assumed background), and you are attempting to nullify their action by saying everyone should just ignore them.

It’s possible the student was earnestly protesting, it’s possible the student was only wanting attention, but do you think that dismissing and ignoring their action is the right answer to either possibility?