Christine's Back... 

"someassemblyrequired" (someassemblyrequired) 09/21/2018 at 18:13 • Filed to: shittyvan

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So it’s finally happened. I managed to get pulled over by the cops in Virginia. Surprisingly it wasn’t for speeding, but for the driver’s side stoplight not working. This is weird, because it’s an LED, and the marker lights are the same LED array (and work just fine). Take it home, and clean the connections, and it springs to life. Wife is following in the other car today and tells me it’s stopped working again. Clean connections again - nothing this time.

Back a few years ago when it had 36K, it went completely nuts. Like possessed nuts. It spent a week at the dealer, and we had to get Chrysler corporate involved. I’m not sure what they did to be honest since the dealer was pissed we called corporate , but it has behaved for the most part since. Here’s the article from when that happened...

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

So on a hunch, I do a TIPM soft reset (just turn it to run, wait 12s, then crank). Stop light now works fine. Try it with the lights on - no dice. Turn lights off, and still no stop light. If I do another soft reset, and leave the lights off it starts working again.

Chrysler experts of Oppo - s hould I just bite the bullet and order a new TIPM? Or should I try to get at the harness and see if there’s a short somewhere? Is it worth trying the hard reset where you tie the battery cables together ?

punkgoose17 > someassemblyrequired 09/21/2018 at 19:43

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I'd start with a new stop light. It may be LED, but that does not mean it isn't defective.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > someassemblyrequired 09/21/2018 at 19:47

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Former Chrysler tech hat on!

2013 T&C does have the known shittastic TIPM, but your symptoms aren’t right for it. Do you have the FSMs? Again, I’m former (but I was certified electrical specialist.) I’m specifically looking for the rear lighting harness diagram.

The TIPM follows the WJ-on design where the module actually feeds sub-modules. In this case, the T&C has three door nodes and a power liftgate module. While M1 (15A) only goes to the CHMS and brake switch. That means the LEDs are connected to either the liftgate module or BCM and rely on CANbus trigger .

So I doubt very very much it’s the TIPM. Just a question of which of the other modules it is.

someassemblyrequired > punkgoose17 09/21/2018 at 20:31

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Yeah I just checked that.  It’s the same pin arrangement for the offending LED cluster on the L & R, so I swapped in the known good cluster, and it had the same behavior.

someassemblyrequired > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 09/21/2018 at 20:41

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Thanks so much for responding. I unfortunately don’t have the FSMs, but it’s probably time to look. I did track down a wiring diagram at BBB that showed the wire originating from the TIPM, and then running straight to the cluster - here is the screenshot:

It shows Pin 47 on the TIPM unless I’ve read it wrong (which is definitely possible).  I have high mount and right stop lights functioning normally. My first thought was a intermittent short, but the fact they stop working when the marker lights are turned on, then start working if you soft reset the TIPM is weird.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > someassemblyrequired 09/21/2018 at 21:26

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Augh, not enough screenshot. But we’re not interested in pin 47, we’re interested in C4 and C7. Specifically on C4, “CONFIG RR LIGHT LT” and then L53 “STP LMP FD CMB D”. L67/C4 should be the CAN bus connection. Note that the p/s taillight has L66 “CONFIG RR LIGHT RT” (if I remember my Dumber-Chrysler, might be LR LIGHT LT? It’s the CANbus either way.)

The soft TIPM reset would reset the CAN comms and if the light is injecting bad signals into the CANbus, that c ould cause the symptoms you’re seeing even with good LEDs. The other possible wire I’d be investigating is L53, “STP LMP FD CMBD” - the combined feed for the assembly.

However, I’d definitely need the FSMs to tell you how to diag the L53 connection. It’s probably still using PCI-CCD which requires a decoder to interpret - it’s not straight voltage. If there was an LED fault, one or both of these buses should be flagging a code in the BCM for taillight module failure. The fact that it’s failing to illuminate and failing to indicate fault in BCM tells me there’s most likely a comms fault going on here.

Based on this diagram, you’re right - it could be TIPM. But I remain skeptical, as TIPM failures are never this clean. I would much more strongly suspect the taillight assembly module itself first .

E92M3 > someassemblyrequired 09/21/2018 at 22:14

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Chrysler’s gonna Chrysler!

someassemblyrequired > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 09/21/2018 at 22:16

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OK, that’s starting to make some sense if the lamp is on the CANbus, and the fact the combined feed might explain why it works for stoplights and for tail lights independently, but not both at the same time. Especially as I have seen the TPMS play up and frankly I’d have been impressed if I wasn’t so angry.

I tried swapping the other cluster in since the pin connections appeared to be the same right and left, and the cluster didn’t light, but I didn’t try the soft reset. I’ll probably give that a go in the morning and see what happens to positively rule out the cluster .

Do you know the routing for wiring back to the cluster offhand?  Is there a shadetree mechanic way to bypass L53 just to test or do you need a dealer scanner to check the wires?

someassemblyrequired > E92M3 09/21/2018 at 22:18

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Man with broken Chrysler laughs at/feels sorry for man with working BMW.

Also how’s that cooling system?  :D

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > someassemblyrequired 09/21/2018 at 22:29

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Definitely need to soft reset because that’ll reboot the CAN and CCD (just... look, Chrysler will make you question your life choices no matter what you do, OK?) However, the pinout is NOT the same because of course it isn’t . There is a reason I am former. You’ll have to jumper the pins to match the command signals as shown in the pinouts. MATCH WIRE GAUGE. Otherwise you’re gonna melt something.

As to the routing? DON’T DO NOT I REPEAT DO NOT UNTIL YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CHOICE. SERIOUSLY. DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU FUCKING HAVE TO. Seriously. You have to disassemble THE ENTIRE FUCKING INTERIOR. Not “some of” not “most of” FUCKING ALL OF. So like I said: DON’T. Get long-ass test leads and test at the pins which is going to be bad enough because you’ll have to do disassembly of the dash almost certainly.

As for bypassing L53... no dice. That’s the combined feed, so basically, power for your parking and reverse lights as well. Who knows what else it’s carrying or where else it’s spliced. (It’s an FCA wiring diagram. I do not fully trust them for a reason.) And if it’s carrying data, CCD and CAN are both notoriously sensitive to resistance - meaning wire length and connections matter . I had to explain so many times why cheapo splicing was not a valid option. I’d need to see full FSM to actually tell you what precisely is on that wire and whether it’s safe to get out the soldering iron on.

someassemblyrequired > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 09/21/2018 at 22:36

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Ugh, well I will question my life choices tonight, then try to test the cluster tomorrow.

Might just be easier to try to hit the junkyard tomorrow am and grab another LH tailight. If it’s not that, I can always throw the spare on Ebay.

Sounds like the easiest fix if it’s the wiring is just to soft reset, and head to the dealer during daylight hours for a new van.

someassemblyrequired > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 09/24/2018 at 10:24

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Some good news and a big thank you. I managed to isolate the problem to the cluster with your help, so I owe you a six pack of internet beers (or real beers if you are in DC).

Here’s what I did. I pulled both the L&R cluster, and like you said, the pinouts at the main pigtail were very different. However, the pigtails at the LED connector on the cluster were identical. So I left the main pigtail on the bad cluster connected, then connected on the LED pigtail to the good cluster. I then did a soft reset of the TIPM.

I can now get brake lights with the taillights on, and the EVIC reported an issue with the right cluster (which I had disconnected). S o you’re right, it was the bad cluster injecting garbage on to the CanBus and it must have been throwing a lot of garbage because I didn’t get the same error when I swapped the cluster without the soft reset.

someassemblyrequired > punkgoose17 09/24/2018 at 10:27

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You know what, it was a bad cluster. I owe you some internet beers and/or real beers if you are in DC . I worked through the problem with the Actual Root Wyrm and I didn’t realize the tailight was connected to the CanBus (why Sergio why???). After swapping the clusters and resetting the TIPM things worked just fine, and I got a message saying the other cluster wasn’t working (which I didn’t have before). So the bad LED board was injecting all kinds of garbage onto the network and causing the problem.