PSA – ALWAYS get a PPI on old BMWs

"ZHP Sparky, the 5th" (e30s2k)
09/18/2018 at 17:11 • Filed to: None

So earlier today I was excited about potentially buying a ZHP today. It seemed like it was priced a bit high but within the ballpark to reach a deal. Seller was happy to oblige to a PPI and I was awaiting results from the test this morning.

Well, I heard back from the mechanic. His words – “stay away from this car, or don’t pay a dime over $2k for it”.

Here’s a list of issues that were identified.

- Ra ttle from engine is NOT VANOS – could be a timing chain issue or something else internal/more serious

- Engine mounts are cracked

- Oil pan gasket is leaking

- Oil level is low (dude, who doesn’t check oil levels before sending a car you’re trying to sell for an inspection???)

- Power steering pressure hose is leaking

- Both air filters are “filthy”, should be replaced

- Rear differential bushings are cracked

- Front passenger side shock looks new (on side where fender was replaced from a “parking lot accident”) while others appear original and in need of replacement

- Tire damage on same side, with a bulge from where it probably had some kind of impact

- Front sway bar mount is bent, likely from when car was hit

- PCV hoses are all soft and ready to break, should be replaced

- Thermostat, coolant hoses, expansion tank, water pump etc. all appear original and should be replaced shortly

- Brake fluid has moisture, should be replaced

- Rear brakes have ~25% life left

Some of them are wear items that could be done over time, some things I could do myself…but in general, indicative of a car that hasn’t been maintained and used with a “well it didn’t seem broken, so I didn’t fix it” attitude, which is a pretty bad way to maintain an aging BMW.

Lesson learnt, $150 well spent! The search continues…

DISCUSSION (55)

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 17:20

Dang dodge one hell of a wallet blasting 50 caliber sniper from across the valley bullet there.

Also is anyone else seeing these spots for ads in the article?

WilliamsSW > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 17:20

Ah, looks like that car was well maintained...

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 17:20

engine mounts are cracked O.o cars to new for that to just be wear and tear

wonder what he jumped

MUGENJIBZ > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 17:29

Good Lord. That is a horrific report.

Vicente Esteve > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 17:30

Jesus thats bad. I am actually curious to know a good PPI story where the car had a clean bill of health.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > WilliamsSW
09/18/2018 at 17:32

Weird thing is, the guy seemed to be trying. He showed me invoices for thousands of dollars where he had the window switch actuators and sunroof blind being fixed because it wasn’t opening and closing properly. Who the hell gives a shit about the blind for a sunroof not opening properly when you have all this other stuff lurking underneath your car????

WilliamsSW > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
09/18/2018 at 17:33

Yes. Hope to hell that’s not a sign of things to come.

7:07 > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
09/18/2018 at 17:34

“Also is anyone else seeing these spots for ads in the article?”

Yep. Three to be exact.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles
09/18/2018 at 17:35

Not sure what ad spots? Don’t think I’m seeing anything weird.

Y eah, phew. Earlier I was thinking I know this car needs SOME work, I hope we can make a deal…and was worried about being too far apart in price for that to happen. Because damn, I’d love to have a ZHP.

But now I’m all THANK THE LORD, I don’t even want to touch that car.

Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 17:35

I love me an E46 but they are money pits.

WilliamsSW > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 17:36

Someone with no effing clue on how to maintain a car, but gets annoyed by minor shit inside the car, that’s who...

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Vicente Esteve
09/18/2018 at 17:38

Yeah, going in to a PPI I knew to expect a whole bunch of little stuff.

Because honestly, it’s a 15 year old car…some stuff is going to be aging, or wear items needing replacing soon. But holy hell, mounts and bushings cracked across the board, shocks shot to death, low oil in a ticking engine. That’s the kind of stuff that even one of which would make me walk, short of a serious reduction in price. Add a whole list, and you’ll have to pay me to take that damn car.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > MUGENJIBZ
09/18/2018 at 17:40

Yeah, I’m glad to have dodged that bullet. I just feel bad for the poor car.

It is something pretty special that is just being neglected. I’m sure someone will buy it, likely someone who is willing to gamble with it further until they manage to offload it to someone else, or the thing just craps the bed for good.

The car deserves to be saved, because dammit those things sure are a nice drive. Just not anywhere near that price.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru
09/18/2018 at 17:45

I want one, so I’d love to argue against your point. But yup, if you’re not buying a car that has had extensive preventative work done by the previous owner, you sure as hell are going to need to do it – if not a whole lot more. So yeah, a money pit for someone for sure…just a question of whether it’s going to be you or the guy before/after you.

CompactLuxuryFan > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 17:54

Honestly most of those things don’t sound too bad for any E46, except for the strange rattling and of course the hidden accident. Unless it’s going to appreciate even while you’re driving it (which no E46 in the world will do), you just have to be okay owning a car that’s not 100% like new. I recommend you either a) shift to only look at E90s which are still maaaybe new enough to not have these kinds of issues like old hoses that could go at any moment or dramatically lower your purchase budget and go for something like a well-optioned 323i that you can then put money into bringing up to the condition you want.

Captain of the Enterprise > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 17:59

Wow that’s probably the best use of $150 you could have spent.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 18:04

The accident damage and engine tick really turn me off. The other things could be fixed with some time and ebay parts.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > CompactLuxuryFan
09/18/2018 at 18:09

You know, I was trying to think of this with that same attitude. But at almost $9k asking there is no way this would work. Engine rattle and damage from accident is permanent. Beyond that it’s new engine mounts, diff bushings, air filter, shocks at a minimum. That’s a good few grand, just to get moving. Then cooling system overhaul and new hoses in the very near future. Let’s say you let the oil pan gasket and power steering leak go and just keep an eye on it. You’re still left with a car with an unknown engine issue and accident damage. I don’t know, maybe $2-3k would make this a worthwhile buy?

ZHP prices actually have been trending upwards slowly now…so yes there is a way to just have an imperfect car that you work on slowly over time, knowing that the market is improving too for you. But there’s just too much unknown here. The guy seemed shocked – he’s going to take it to his mechanic, let’s see what happens after that.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Captain of the Enterprise
09/18/2018 at 18:09

Yup, I’m not even mad. I was so smitten with the prospect of owning one of these cars. Just knowing I didn’t give away all that money for an absolute nightmare, SO worth it.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > CompactLuxuryFan
09/18/2018 at 18:12

p.s. - Good point on E90s. I have seen a few that are within my budget, but have gone “well for that money I can get a clean ZHP which is so much more special”. But maybe not, and an E90 really is the better buy for my needs at this point. They’re all autos, but have seen some nice looking E91s popping up and I do love me a wagon.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
09/18/2018 at 18:14

Agreed. The other things I would negotiate with. Maybe end up at $ 4k or so and it’ll be a nice buy I could dump the rest of the money in to and freshen the car up for a good few years of worry-free driving. But with the tick and damage, I don’t even know what a fair price to offer would be. I told him exactly that and bowed out.

RPM esq. > Powershiftmedia-ResidentDSMGuru
09/18/2018 at 18:19

Can confirm, on both points.

E90M3 > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 18:20

Tell him you’ll give him $1000 when his engine blows. That’ll give you a good budget for an S54 conversion.

RPM esq. > Vicente Esteve
09/18/2018 at 18:23

The guy who bought my M3 had a PPI done that came out so clean I wished I’d set a higher asking price.

Plz note that as everyone on here shouted at me when I sold my FJ80, I seem to price my cars to move .

Gerry197 > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 18:26

I love the E46, in fact I still own one, a 328I manual. But I remember asking the lead mechanic and co-owner of my BMW indy shop if I should give it away to a family member going to college.

He said “is she made out of money?”

Gerry197 > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 18:27

I have an E90 as well, also a manual with sport package with 189,000 miles. Still running strong. Probably has been cheaper to keep alive than my E46 if I were honest.

RPM esq. > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 18:32

Hmm, let’s see:

Engine mounts are cracked

Front passenger side shock looks new (on side where fender was replaced from a “parking lot accident”) while others appear original and in need of replacement

Tire damage on same side, with a bulge from where it probably had some kind of impact

Front sway bar mount is bent, likely from when car was hit

My only follow-up question to that inspection report would have been “so were you street racing when you hit that curb, or just speeding?”

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 18:32

Hot take...PPI all used cars.

jasmits > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 18:34

Let me guess, it’s somewhere between 100k and 150k miles? Most of the stuff on this list are just things that wear out around then, the previous owner is probably selling because he didn’t want to deal with them. I haven’t been following along with your posts so I have no idea what the asking is and haven’t payed much attention to prices on these lately but if you can figure out what that rattle is and make sure it’s not something serious this wouldn’t be a terrible buy towards the lower end of the market. This stuff shows that the PO wasn’t very on top of preventative maintenance but as long as the rattle is something minor none of this is particularly involved to replace.

CompactLuxuryFan > Gerry197
09/18/2018 at 18:40

I only had my E46 for 6 months and 7K miles (R.I.P.) but I’m pretty sure E46s are quite a bit more expensive to keep up than E90s, especially if you compare similarly ‘simple’ models (e.g. E90 325i with manual everything vs E46 330i also with manual everything). So far my E90 has been cheaper to maintain (knock on wood) over 1 year and... 2K miles :P

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > farscythe - makin da cawfee!
09/18/2018 at 18:41

Probably happened in the “fender bender”

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > jasmits
09/18/2018 at 18:42

Agreed. Issue is he’s asking almost $9k for the car, and he didn’t even know there was a rattle until I pointed it out to him during the test drive. I was hoping it was just the VANOS, but now confirmed that it isn’t. So it’s too much of an unknown for me to make an offer without knowing.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever
09/18/2018 at 18:43

Meh, if you’re buying an ‘05 Corolla with 120k miles I’d say it’s a pretty safe bet as long as the basics check out.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > RPM esq.
09/18/2018 at 18:43

Appears it was the previous owner who was the culprit, the current guy was just too oblivious to care about any of that.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > E90M3
09/18/2018 at 18:46

Haha pretty much what I had in the back of my mind if I found myself with a blown M54.

Gerry197 > CompactLuxuryFan
09/18/2018 at 18:52

Agreed, only thing that worries me is the electronic water pump, if that goes you don’t have a lot of time before it overheats.

jasmits > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 19:04

Yeah that is way too much lol, maybe if it was pristine and fastidiously maintained. That’s M3 money if you’re buying an E46 with a long list of needs.

It’s probably just a tensioner somewhere or a chain guide but I’d definitely want to know it’s not internal before making an offer. Everything else is pretty cut and dry, if a bit of a long list.

I mean if you’re working with a $9k budget a little patience could get you a gem of a ZHP or E36 M3.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > jasmits
09/18/2018 at 19:14

Yeah I’ve drawn my line that an E36 is too old for what I’m looking for. Just stepping out of an E30, so would like to skip a little bit further in to the future. I thought I’d get a gem of a ZHP but this car was the cheapest reasonable looking local option. There are two more that admittedly look cleaner, but they’re asking $11k and $13k respectively. Seems ridiculous to me to the point where I don’t even want to negotiate with them. We’re not even in the same ballpark so I don’t want to insult someone who thinks their car is worth that much.

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 20:15

I disagree. The place I get my PPIs done only costs $40 and they were able to find problems with a car that I was looking at that I couldn’t find in my thorough personal inspection. Saved me from $1200+ of potential work on a Honda Accord

M.T. Blake > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/18/2018 at 23:08

Smart idea! Love some ZHP!

pip bip - choose Corrour > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/19/2018 at 06:46

pro-tip

avoid buying European

diplodicus > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/19/2018 at 08:24

“- Power steering pressure hose is leaking” Every BMW with power steering lol.

jasmits > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/19/2018 at 10:35

That does sound like a lot. Is that high for the market or is that just what tho se are going for these days? If they’re truly asking above market and you can point to why the number you’re thinking is really a fair price and not just what you want to spend it can’t hurt to take a look and make an offer, especially if the car’s been listed for a long time and not moved. I’ve had a few sellers come way down in price(to the fair value) because I was able to point out that their car is 20 years old now and they’re asking exceptional car money for a car that is well taken care of but not some unicorn.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > jasmits
09/19/2018 at 11:19

Yup that’s exactly what I’m going to do. Honestly market data is tough to come by. You have BaT auction results – with pristine cars selling for way less than what these folks are asking. Beyond that it’s the same few local folks propping each other’s asking prices up, and none of them selling and sitting on the market for months. I’m going to share whatever market info I can and be like look I’m happy to buy your car at a fair price, explain to me why you think your car is worth what you’re asking. Worst that could happen is that we don’t reach an agreement. Just want to go about it in a way where I don’t piss them off or hurt their feelings to the point where to don’t want to work with me, but end up selling later on to someone else at a reduced price I would’ve paid all along. Humans, man!

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > diplodicus
09/19/2018 at 11:21

LOL of course. A bunch of that stuff is standard old car maintenance that I’d be fine with. It’s just the long list of more serious and expensive work that had been ignored or done in a half-assed manner (along with crazy price given all this) that means there is no deal to be made here.

p.s. please post more pictures of your E30 on Oppo. With mine gone I need to at least see more of its twin.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > pip bip - choose Corrour
09/19/2018 at 11:37

But, but…how?!

Seriously though – let’s say for a budget of $10k what options do you have for a fun daily driver? I can think of the Lexus IS and Infiniti G35/37 – but those are pretty hard to find unabused too. I’m looking at Subarus but again high mileage, lots of abuse, and head gasket + turbo concerns.Outside of that there are a few FWD options like the Acura TL and TSX. What else? All ears really.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > M.T. Blake
09/19/2018 at 11:37

Yeah only problem is they’re either abused, or the owners love them a bit too much and are asking M3 money. Which is crazy.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford
09/19/2018 at 11:38

Fair enough, and at that price – why not! It’s very cheap insurance, especially on cars that don’t come with too much maintenance history.

jasmits > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/19/2018 at 11:51

That sounds like the way to go about it! Could just be that they’re testing the waters, maybe they’ll part with it if someone wants to spend $10k+ or keep it if not because that’s what it’s worth to them.

Also, not sure what you’ve been considering but I’ve noticed E9x 335s are starting to go for around the $10k mark, that’s a ton of car for the money.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > jasmits
09/19/2018 at 13:03

Locally I’ve seen a handful of 335s around that price point, but very early models. Plenty of 328s though…which honestly I think might be the safer used car buy. Just a much simpler engine. There are a few very nice and affordable 328i E91 wagons, but unfortunately all auto. Manuals claim quite the premium…like $10k more. Just so rare I guess it’s one of those situations where you pay what they’re asking or not find another one situation.

pip bip - choose Corrour > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/19/2018 at 18:22

Mx5/miata

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > pip bip - choose Corrour
09/19/2018 at 18:32

Need a back seat :(

pip bip - choose Corrour > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/19/2018 at 23:19

Pontiac g8?

CompactLuxuryFan > ZHP Sparky, the 5th
09/21/2018 at 16:47

This BaT listing has stayed in sane territory so far: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-bmw-330i-zhp-11/

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > CompactLuxuryFan
09/21/2018 at 17:36

Thanks! Yeah I’ve seen that too. But with 5 days remaining I’m pretty confident things will heat up as usual on towards the end.