Cadillac betting big on CT4/CT5 as well as new models

"LJ909" (lj909) 09/17/2018 at 11:46 • Filed to: None

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!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! that GM dumped $175 million into the Lansing Grand River plant for retooling for the 2 new models. The plant currently makes the CTS, ATS and Camaro. Originally I thought that the CT5 was going to be a consolidated model replacing both the CTS and ATS. But that isn’ t the case. Apparently the CT5 is just replacing the CTS and CT4 is replacing the ATS. Because replacing 2 slow selling models with 2 new models works (eyeroll). They are also reporting that after the CT4 debut, there are going to be a new model every 6 months till 21’ including a coming smaller XT4, an even smaller XT3 , bigger XT6 and apparently an Escalade Range, whatever that means. Also by 2020, all models will come with Super Cruise, with it trickling down to other GM models as well.

Will it pay off? Who knows. None of this makes sense to me and I have so many questions as to how many of these vehicles will fit into the lineup:

Why are 2 new models replacing 2 models that notoriously dont sell?

What is this Escalade Range?

How does the XT6 fit in with an XT5 and Escalade?

How much smaller than the XT5 will the XT4 and XT3 be?

What are you guys really doing?

Seriously. What do you guys think about all of this?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > LJ909 09/17/2018 at 12:05

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What is this Escalade Range?

Escalade, and Escalade ESV 

LJ909 > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/17/2018 at 12:11

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I see range as more than 2. So maybe some other variants are planned. No word from GM has been said about a new Suburban /Tahoe/Yukon/XL so this would coincide with a new Escalade.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > LJ909 09/17/2018 at 12:13

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Read and watched a few XT4 review this morning, looks like a good product overall but i’s late to the market, and expensive. GM incentives should help.

Are they making an XT3 similar to the Buick Encore?

I don’t have faith that the new CT3/4 whatever and the CT5 will sell given how abysmal sales of the ATS and CTS are. But personally, If they fix the Cue and move to the hard touch buttons like they did in the Xt4 I might consider a CT5 used.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/17/2018 at 12:16

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I imagine they will try to out Range Rover, Range Rover.  You’ll probably see the typical Escalade variants, mentioned above, then you may get some exclusive packages similar to what Range Rover does.  Esclades still sell well, so I would suspect they will be pushing their sticker price up and up and up to try and get a slice of the premium SUV money.  

LJ909 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 09/17/2018 at 12:20

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The XT4 is very expensive and offers nothing really over competitors except cheapening out on things competitors offer.

I hope t o god that the XT3 wont be some Encore/Trax in a tux. That will spell death for Cadillac.

I totally agree with you here. Unless they really hit the ground running with these things, because lets be honest this could be the case given how surprisingly good the ATS was sports sedan wise its just no one noticed, these 2 sedans will fall flat again.

For Sweden > LJ909 09/17/2018 at 12:22

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One of those new models Cadillac is betting big on:

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > LJ909 09/17/2018 at 12:23

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So it sounds like they are trying the BMW lineup... try to fill all the niches and then some. Seems like they will cannibalize their sales, but who knows? Caddy’s are much more on par with the Germans, but they don’t carry the brand cachet that the Germans do. And until they bring out an AWD ubersedan, I’m not too interested in going back to caddy from Audi. I did enjoy the first gen CTS-V though. Very fun car, but not much fun in winter driving.

Chariotoflove > LJ909 09/17/2018 at 12:23

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I don’t know if two new models or one consolidated one for the low size range is the right answer. I do like that Cadillac isn’t giving up. They seem to be taking the long view, pushing toward the future, and being bold. T hat persistence is the way to eventual success.  It’s not a traditional GM way of doing things, but I like it.

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > LJ909 09/17/2018 at 12:23

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The XT6 is probably a three row crossover, the XT5 is 2-row and the Escalade is massive so there’s definitely space for one in the range, especially with the crossover market as it is.

LJ909 > For Sweden 09/17/2018 at 12:25

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Would be nice if they surprised us with a second gen XLR. The way the brand has gone, it could work now. 

For Sweden > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/17/2018 at 12:28

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Escalade Range (Rover)

LJ909 > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 09/17/2018 at 12:29

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Yea and copy cat won’t work for them. They’ve already been criticised on pricing their cars too high. The brand cachet isn’t there for them to do that. For instance, the V cars are some of the best performance cars on the market. But no one knows because they see the sticker and balk at the price and say “you’d be crazy to be that for a Cadillac” and walk right over to the Germans and be willing to pay a mortgage payment a month for an M5 or any AMG.

I did get word last year in secret from a Cadillac rep  that the bigger luxury sedan was coming before or in ‘20, but de Nysschen was being super selective with the details. Apparently it’s very hush hush at GM.

LJ909 > Chariotoflove 09/17/2018 at 12:34

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Right. We may say that they are going to fall flat but they are at least trying and going in the right direction. Hell it’s way more than what Lincoln is doing. 

LJ909 > dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford 09/17/2018 at 12:36

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This is true. But then the overlap is the problem. A 3 row XT6 will probably get close to Escalade pricing. At that point, why not just get an Escalade. And the same can be said for the smaller XT’s with the ones above and below each other. 

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford 09/17/2018 at 12:45

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Exactly just like the the Edge, Explorer, and Expedition.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > LJ909 09/17/2018 at 13:30

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Its really a shame that they can’t get the recognition and cachet of the German brands. Some of the offerings are on par with the Germans, but then some are not quite there yet. If they ever could bring out something that looked like the elmirag concepts and was as big as an S-class, (they might even call it a CT7 or CT8?) they might be able to pull some buyers over, but it’s a tough sell. I always figured they’d be bringing out a 7 or 8 size car to compete with the Audi lineup. Otherwise they would’ve called the CT6, the CT8.

I’d gladly come back to the brand if they had a car a size bigger than the CT6 with a badass powertrain and AWD. Then I’d think about ditching my S8. But then again, having an aluminum bodied car in the rust belt has its advantages too. But I’m not their target market anyway.... I wait till they are 2-5 years old and worth half as much as original price.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > LJ909 09/17/2018 at 13:36

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This one looks like a CT7 to me.

And this would make a nice CT8

They just need to build them.

I mean, just look at them.  

LJ909 > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 09/17/2018 at 13:48

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I think a big sedan would work for them because that’s what’s expected of Cadillac. But for some reason they’ve been holding back on that for years and it’s frustrating for fans and potential buyers.

I wait till they are 2-5 years old and worth half as much as original price.

This is the sentiment I’ve heard from people interested in new Cadillacs time and again and it’s something that they will have to overcome: people pretty much not thinking the cars are worth the price new. But they have been oblivious and clueless to this fact. 

Chariotoflove > LJ909 09/17/2018 at 14:19

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I really liked Lincoln’s take on American luxury with the Continental.  Not sure if the rest of their lineup is too tame.  But I do like that we have two different takes on luxury in our domestic market.  I like choices.

LJ909 > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 09/17/2018 at 16:44

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Yea but they are pussies. What’s their new tagline? Dare to be bold or something? These two cars exemplify that. At best, the most we might get from these is some design cues. A grill here. A headlight or taillight design there. 

LJ909 > Chariotoflove 09/17/2018 at 16:45

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Right. The Conti is a step in the right direction, along with the georgous Navigator. But the rest of the lineup leaves a lot to be desired.