Back-to-school traffic means crazy high dynamic toll prices on I-66 E from VA to DC

"Textured Soy Protein" (texturedsoyprotein) 09/06/2018 at 13:31 • Filed to: None

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Interstate 66 is one of the main routes connecting Washington, DC to the Northern Virginia suburbs. For the final 10 miles of the commute in to the city, starting at the Beltway, 66 East is is only accessible to carpoolers, or people who pay a toll that changes with traffic volume.

Back in the day, you could just drive all the way in to DC on 66 E, but several years ago, Virginia switched it to all carpool (HOV) lanes during morning rush hour . The rationale was 66 E was ridiculously congested, and the Metro orange line covers the same route. The Metro tracks are actually in the median of 66 until you get within a few miles of DC. So Virginia wanted to get those people off 66 and on to Metro.

Then, a few years ago, Virginia decided to re-open 66 E to non-carpoolers during rush hour, as long as they paid the toll. These are called HOT (High Occupancy or Toll) lanes. Many highways in Virginia have HOT-3 express lanes where you need 3 or more people to avoid the toll, but during rush hour, 66 E from the Beltway to DC is entirely HOT-2 lanes, no regular lanes at all.

I-66 meets the Beltway just north of Tyson’s Corner, VA where I work. I pass the signs showing the current toll on my morning commute. Sometimes the toll is an oh-so-reasonable $15-20 or so, but other times, it’s not.

Most of the schools around here start back up the day after Labor Day, which has made my morning commute a little more lengthy, and my evening commute actually a bit shorter. Not by enough to cancel out the extra morning time, but whatever.

The Washington Post loves to post updates about the I-66 toll going above $40. Thanks to the extra morning traffic, the rush hour tolls have been over $45 all week. So they’ve got an article about it from !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and the same basic thing on !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

I took this picture this morning at about 9:15 am, on the tail end of what you’d think is normal rush hour traffic. Yes I was straggling on my way out the door this morning. I’d rather stay at home with my wife and drink coffee and pet cats than arrive at my office early. Plenty of people come in even later. Don’t judge me.

The Virginia Dept of Transportation, whenever they’re asked for comment about the tolls, spouts some platitudes about providing commuters with choices.

Locals have taken to calling any of these HOT lanes Lexus Lanes. But for the stretch of 66 E from the Beltway to DC, I prefer to call them Lobbyist Lanes, because that’s who’s probably paying the toll. Or the poor souls who can’t/won’t take Metro or carpool.

Virginia, in addition to putting people in jail for speeding, also looooves tolls.

ttyymmnn > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 13:35

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“Obscene” is the only word for that.

facw > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 13:37

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That’s steep. Still I hate that every time they get so high, there’s calls to cap the toll, which would just result in the carpoolers getting stuck in (more) traffic. If the HOT system is going to work at all, you need to let the tolls rise to decrease demand. The class-ism at play is  undesirable, but you’ve got to handle limited supply somehow.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 13:39

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Damn. I live in a state with no tolls, and throw a fit whenever I visit chicago and have to stop every 20 miles and pay a $2.50 toll or something. $45 is insane. I can kind of understand big city parking garages that charge $50+ a day to park or nice apartments with yearly rent for parking is almost as expensive as the car itself, but this...this is nuts .

Guess I’m staying firmly planted where I am.

Textured Soy Protein > ttyymmnn 09/06/2018 at 13:41

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The lobbyists in the lobbyist lanes don’t care about your proletarian definitions of obscenity.

boredalways > ttyymmnn 09/06/2018 at 13:44

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I would have went with WTMF!?, but yours is universally acceptable.

ttyymmnn > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 13:45

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I know, and that is obscene too.

fintail > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 13:47

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I wonder how deeply in bed the toll collection equipment company is in bed with corrupt untouchable overcompensated local  politicos.

Textured Soy Protein > facw 09/06/2018 at 13:48

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I think HOT lanes can make sense for certain areas but they’re not always the best solution.

The HOT-3 express lanes on 495 & 95 are basically just paid express lanes, because 3+ people in a car isn’t that common. Especially commuters. I guess you could hit that by picking up sluggers.

Virginia is talking about extending the 495 express lanes north from Tyson’s Corner to the river, and trying to coordinate with Maryland to continue the expansion up to 270. That might help my commute home? Not going to happen anytime soon. 

ttyymmnn > facw 09/06/2018 at 13:48

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They have been building toll lanes in TX like crazy. On one of the main N/S routes through Austin, they widened it to four lanes but made the fourth lane a “managed” lane with dynamic tolls. At the highest, it’s about $6, and I refuse to pay that. The fact of the matter is that the lane was never about easing congestion, it was always about making money. It’s disgusting. 

diplodicus > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 09/06/2018 at 13:48

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You know you don’t have to stop right? Even if you don’t have an I-pass you can go on their website and pay the tolls by looking up your license plate# as long as it’s been less than 7days.

facw > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 13:52

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I think they are pretty good in general. I like HOV lanes, but it is normally wasted capacity, so charging people to drive in them is fine, as long as you can keep the traffic flowing.

Also, if we’re honest, it’s quite hard to find support to raise public money for infrastructure these days, so some sort of toll to pay for new construction is a bit of a necessary evil . Having variable tolls to match demand is just good economics, and encourages efficient use of resources.

Textured Soy Protein > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 09/06/2018 at 13:53

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Virginia loves toll roads.

When I lived in Wisconsin, I signed up for an I-Pass so I could use the open road tolling when I went to Chicago, instead of stopping at the booths. I actually still have that I-Pass that I use around DC since it’s compatible with EZPass.

At some point I’m going to have to switch over, I don’t feel like paying my tolls through Illinois. But my toll usage is very low. There’s one toll road in Maryland that’ s the most direct route to my grandma. There are multiple other ways to get to her that are fine though so I only take that toll road if traffic is bad on the other routes, and it’s only a few bucks. Other than that, there’s a toll to take the Chesapeake Bay Bridge east, which I pay when I go to my parents’ vacation house on the bay, or out to the beach.

If I lived in VA and worked in DC, I’d probably just take the Metro, which is exactly what the restrictions on 66 E are designed to encourage. 

Ash78, voting early and often > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 13:53

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The problem with dynamic tolls is that they’re dynamic and you’re a captive audience. In any kind of market, if both parties can’t get timely, accurate information and have alternatives to choose from, it’s just a money grab. Do they give you advance warning of the toll levels?

But it’s DC...the place where my old dad once got an aggressive driving ticket because a traffic cam saw him change lanes too quickly on a road with no other traffic.

Sovande > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 13:57

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My coworker had to drive his daughter to school this morning in Springfield. 395 was a parking lot. His express lane commute cost him $54 and still took an hour and a half.

Mine took an hour after dropping off my son at school . It’s normally 20 minutes.

facw > ttyymmnn 09/06/2018 at 13:59

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It’s pretty well know that adding more lanes just encourages people to live farther out, leading to more traffic, and very soon, the same level of congestion.

That said, as I mentioned elsewhere, toll roads are often the only way to get things built these days, especially in a tax adverse environment like Texas.

My experience living in Austin makes me feel that with all the North/South traffic, and very little room to add highway capacity they shouldn’t be focusing on that. Instead they should be rerouting the Union Pacific freight line around to the e ast of the city (a big project to be sure), and converting the existing line which runs right into the heart of downtown into some sort of passenger rail.

atfsgeoff > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 14:00

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Ride a motorcycle. They can use HOV and HOT lanes without paying a toll.

Sovande > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 14:00

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The Slug lines are my biggest slowdown on my evening commute.  Nothing like trying to get down 14th St in DC while the entire right lane is blocked by people going into and leaving the curb lane to pick up people in the slug line.  It’s going to get worse too as they continue to close Metro stations for renovations and improvements in VA.

Textured Soy Protein > facw 09/06/2018 at 14:01

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I prefer HOT lanes over HOV lanes because I’m not one to pay the toll but at least HOT lanes siphon more people out of the regular lanes. Expanding capacity with plain old regular lanes would be better though.

I do get the rationale for making a road like 66 E all HOT lanes because there are plenty of alternate routes, and Metro .

But the stretch of the beltway from Tyson’s to 270 is the only possible option along that route, and good luck rounding up people for an MD/VA carpool. If they’re going to widen the beltway there, just widen it goddammit, don’t restrict lanes at all.

Sovande > facw 09/06/2018 at 14:06

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The issue is that the toll is not necessarily a deterrent in an area with such high per capita pay . The toll increases with the number of users. If 100 people are using the toll lanes the toll is (for example) $5. If 100,000 people are using them, the cost is $50.

The traffic in this area is why I am glad I am an early riser. Waking up at 5:30,  getting on the road by 6:15 and having a 15 minute commute makes much more sense than leaving my house at 7:30 and taking an hour to get to the office. I am only screwed one day a week when I drive my son to school.

Textured Soy Protein > Ash78, voting early and often 09/06/2018 at 14:06

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There are a couple signs like this on the beltway before the exit for 66, and similar signs along 66 itself before it becomes all HOT lanes.

The people driving along this route are “captive” but they could also take the Metro orange line that covers the same route.

And it’s Virginia that loves these tolls. 

Textured Soy Protein > atfsgeoff 09/06/2018 at 14:10

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Sometimes when I see a random motorcycle splitting lanes or riding on the shoulder I wish I had one to do the same thing with, but both of those activities are illegal in both Maryland and Virginia.

The only tolls that are along my commute are if I took either the Dulles toll road or the 495 express lanes for a total of 1 exit. Not worth paying the toll for that. 

facw > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 14:10

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Yeah I’m not sure what the best solution for that stretch is. If you’re building new highways, I do think it might make sense to connect the ICC with VA 28, providing better access to Dulles and a connection between the northern suburbs of both states without requiring people to head in to the Beltway first.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > diplodicus 09/06/2018 at 14:11

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Sometimes I do that, but I usually pay cash since I always forget to go online afterwards 

Textured Soy Protein > Sovande 09/06/2018 at 14:11

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Before I moved out here I interviewed for a job in Springfield. That particular company which shall remain nameless had a nice new building but let’s just say I’m thankful I didn’t get an offer from that place. 

dogisbadob > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 14:11

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That is higher than any toll in NY, NJ, or PA. Higher than driving the whole length of the PA turnpike :o

Another class of people who would use it are people that get reimbursed for their tolls. They don’t care about the price because they aren’t paying for it. Them, and the lobbyists you mention.

But people who support the HOT lane pricing system can’ t complain about Uber’s surge pricing.

facw > Sovande 09/06/2018 at 14:15

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If you leave it uncapped, it will eventually be a sufficient deterrent. It’s only if you set a maximum on it that you have a problem.

Of course, it may be obscenely high, but that just reflects the obscene income inequality we are seeing, it’s a symptom , not a cause.

atfsgeoff > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 14:15

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Lane splitting on a motorcycle is sadly illegal in all states except California. Makes little sense to me since bicycles get a free pass in most places, and in fact I can ride 7 miles across town on my bicycle faster than I can drive my car the same distance just by filtering through standstill traffic.

Textured Soy Protein > facw 09/06/2018 at 14:17

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Haha good luck expanding the ICC, that thing took decades to get off the ground. Same goes for the Metro purple line which is finally under construction. The NIMBY crowd is strong in Maryland.

Ideally there would be an expansion of the beltway + American Legion bridge, and some other bridge built further west.

It’s kinda crazy there isn’t any such bridge, with there being so much development along the river in VA, basically continuous from DC to Leesburg.

There’s a ton of development in MD too but it’s more up along 270 heading up towards Frederick. T he area around Poolesville across from Leesburg etc is still quite rural.

I went out to a farm thing in Poolesville and there were highrise buildings part of Landsdowne across the river towering in the distance. I was like, “we’re way out in Poolesville, what the hell are those buildings doing here?”

You know what would be a perfect location for a new bridge?

Sovande > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 14:19

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I live in Alexandria and wouldn’t commute to Springfield. When I changed jobs (from a company in Greenbelt, MD ) my requirements were Alexandria, DC or Arlington. I’ve mentioned it before but I turned down a $35 ,000 bump in salary because the job was in Rockville. I am not willing to give up  quality of life for money.

facw > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 14:24

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Oh, yeah it would be a huge fight to get that done, especially since they’d need to tear down a bunch of houses on the MD side (or at least have a highway going through their backyards, as the western terminus of the ICC is fairly built up.

I’m entirely ok with building a road/bridge on one of Trump’s golf courses (except for the part where he’d probably have the DOT pay him 100 times what the land is worth).

interstate366, now In The Industry > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 14:49

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There was a proposal a few years back to put a random toll booth on I-95 about 25 miles north of the NC border, which is a very red, low-income area. Locals were furious and it didn’t happen. That said, the few toll roads here in Richmond are very affordable. 895 is a weird one, since it doesn’t get used that much, but the other two are usually quite busy all day long.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 16:00

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I’m glad to live in a state that doesn’t charge extra for driving on roads that were already paid for.

ranwhenparked > Textured Soy Protein 09/06/2018 at 17:39

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The entire state of Virginia is one giant traffic mess. It isn’t even just the DC metro area anymore. The whole corridor between Washington and Richmond is pretty much a long  parking lot, 495 and 77, and 95 look like what I assume Michael Moore’s arteries look like, and 81 is a nightmare. At least 1/3 heavy trucks, narrow shoulders, two lanes in each direction, and lots of curves and hills, and a good number of truck drivers haven’t mastered the art of keeping their tractor trailers upright and on the road. 

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Textured Soy Protein 09/07/2018 at 01:23

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Has there been any studies showing that the tolls actually are helping traffic in some way? Or is it literally designed to just be a FUCK YOU to people who dont take Metro or carpool?

I wonder because I always think about here in LA that there are no tolls and think that maybe tolls could help some of the traffic. 

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > Textured Soy Protein 09/07/2018 at 09:30

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Ours are capped at $10 which I thought was high...sweet baby jesus

Textured Soy Protein > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 09/07/2018 at 09:47

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The various rush hour restrictions on 66 over the years have definitely been done with the intent of reducing the number of people driving on 66. Apparently when it was HOV only, tons of people drove by themselves on it anyway, so Virginia said, basically, “fine, you want to drive on 66 during rush hour? P ay us!”

Virginia has also over the years expanded highways and made the newly-built lanes HOT express lanes. Those are done because they’re supposed to provide more capacity while the tolls cover the cost of expanding the road.

I don’t know of any specific impact studies, but those HOT express lanes lanes can be frustrating because often, traffic is so bad that people find themselves making a choice between being late for something they can’t be late to, or paying some big toll to use the express lanes.

You’d think there would be more of an improvement in traffic if those express lanes were open to everyone, but I’m not a traffic engineer to know for sure. 

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Textured Soy Protein 09/07/2018 at 10:51

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It seems like they charge a crazy amount for those express lanes on i95 when nobody is even on the road. I know I've driven through there in the middle of the night and seen it say $0.75 and I just wondered who the hell would pay that when there is no traffic at all. It should at least be a higher speed limit or something in the express lanes. I'd pay for the right to have an 80mph speed limit instead of 65 for sure.