Stop Saying "Stance"

"Urambo Tauro" (urambotauro) 08/28/2018 at 20:00 • Filed to: terminology, stance, camber, suspension

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You’ve seen “stance” used to describe one specific type of stance- a type that involves outrageous camber and a minimal tire contact patch. Maybe that’s the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the word. But there are many kinds of stance out there.

Stance literally means “the way in which someone or something stands”. Like posture , it’s a very broad term. There are different kinds of car stance, just like there are different kinds of body posture. Some of them are good, some of them are bad, and some of them are just different.

To say that a car is “stanced” mustn’t be taken to mean anything other than that it has been modified/tuned. Lowering the car alters its stance, but there is a difference between simply lowering a car, and messing around with tire fitment and wheel angles.

To be clear, I am not saying that we should completely abandon all use of the word stance . We just need to stop using it to point to one particular variety. We need different terms to describe different types of stance.

Using “stance” to describe what the chart below calls “hellafail” is like using “posture” to describe someone with “iPhone neck”.

Here are some graphics to help tell different types of stance apart. I doubt that they’re 100% authoritative, considering that even in stock form, different cars have different relationships between wheel and fender geometry. So I certainly can’t vouch for their accuracy, but I think they’re a great starting point for discussion.

(Credit to whom credit is due. Alas, these have been passed around so many times, I can’t be sure of the original sources.)

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 20:09

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Sorry brah, but stancebros already ruined it.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 20:10

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Perhaps the generic term for all these categories that we should be using is ‘broken’?

The Dummy Gummy > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 08/28/2018 at 20:15

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I was going to say, this ship has sailed.

facw > SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media 08/28/2018 at 20:15

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Well, not all of them, ‘Stock’ and ‘Dropped’ (if done properly) are probably ok.  

wafflesnfalafel > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 08/28/2018 at 20:17

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yeah, I think it’s like “Kleenex”. Not all “kleenex” is Kleenex but that’s what everybody calls it... And I know some folks are really into it, but it still makes my left eye twitch...

McMike > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 20:18

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I prefer “dapper”

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > facw 08/28/2018 at 20:19

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Yeah...stock is the exception...whoops!

Dropped cars around here have all sorts of lower body and underbody damage from road and curb contact... therefore, broken.

Urambo Tauro > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 20:21

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I’m no expert on the different types of stance, but here’s what I’ve managed to glean from that diagram:

Stock: There is a discernable gap between the top of the tire and the top of the wheel opening. The outer face of the wheel is tucked away inboard from the outer face of the wheel opening.

Dropped (aftermarket springs): The car is lowered via lowering springs only. The top of the tire is now just about even with the top of the wheel opening.

Dropped (coilovers): The top of the tire is now hidden above the top of the wheel opening. This cannot be accomplished through stock parts, hence the coilover assembly.

Slammed (coilovers): Similar to dropped (coilovers), but now e ven more of the tire is hidden above the top of the wheel opening. How is this not just a more pronounced version of “dropped”? The spring appears to be more compressed here, sugge sting that the car may be resting on the bump stops.

Flush: The wheel is wider than stock, its outer face now flush with the edge of the wheel opening.

Hellaflush: The wide wheel is given extra camber, allowing the bottom of the wheel to stick out PAST the face of the wheel opening. The (coilover) spring is compressed, indicating that the car may be riding on its bump stops here.

Hellafail: Same as hellaflush, but the camber is more extreme, compromising the tire’s contact patch.

Mexiflush: Normal camber, and possibly stock springs, too. But the wide wheel’s entire outer face is sticking out past the edge of the wheel opening.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 20:28

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Also, bros who refer to any visible wheel gap as “SUV ride height.” Ticks me off—ride heights are set to OEM levels for a reason, whether it’s to clear expected obstacles and road grades, or to optimise ingress and egress.

As in, “I gotta lower my Lambo from its stock SUV ride height.”

Nom De Plume > McMike 08/28/2018 at 20:28

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I enjoy the humans who resemble their pets aspect of this.

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 20:31

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I disagree, “ stance” is a catchall for heavily to extreme lowered/modified suspension with the aim of aesthetics over function.

The English language is all about context and contradictions.   

TheRevanchist > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 20:40

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Got to get your stance on.

TorqueToYield > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 20:48

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It all just looks broken. Or like you have a flat tire.

TorqueToYield > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 08/28/2018 at 20:50

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“Nobody needs an SUV in the city”

With the state of US infrastructure every car should have rally suspension.

Nom De Plume > TorqueToYield 08/28/2018 at 21:00

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Exceeded the weight limit.

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 21:49

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Most of the really low people end up cutting their bump stops out and just letting the frame rails do that. 

Textured Soy Protein > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 22:34

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Slammed, flush, hellaflush, hellafail, mexiflush and wtf are all stanced.

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Urambo Tauro 08/28/2018 at 22:53

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My Z is dropped yo

Die-Trying > TorqueToYield 08/28/2018 at 23:33

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BigBlock440 > Urambo Tauro 08/29/2018 at 00:05

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What’s the difference between a coilover and a strut assembly?  

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Urambo Tauro 08/29/2018 at 09:04

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“flush” can be had with spacers as well.

Urambo Tauro > beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard 08/29/2018 at 09:31

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“Stance” does indeed cover all form over function varieties. But it includes function over form types as well . Every car has a stance.

But I’m not going to ignore the value of context. You can use stance as a verb, too. “Stancing” a car definitely implies that a modification has been made.

Urambo Tauro > McMike 08/29/2018 at 09:33

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Better dapper than crapper .

Urambo Tauro > BigBlock440 08/29/2018 at 10:05

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I guess you could say that a coilover strut is a type of strut assembly. A lot of modern strut assemblies already featu re “coil over” design. B ut I think the diagram is trying to say that there’s only so much you can accomplish through changing springs alone . At some point you’ll need to change the strut too.

Urambo Tauro > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/29/2018 at 10:07

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Yup, good point. I think ultimately, the defining factor for “flush” is that the outer face of the wheel is flush with the wheel opening. It can be achieved not only through wider wheels, but also through wheel spacers. You could relocate the control arm mounts, too. Heck, technically, you could even alter the body of the car to match the wheel... just as long as the end result is flush.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Urambo Tauro 08/29/2018 at 10:17

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And of course, there’s all levels of “dropped”, whether through normal springs or coilovers.

Seems like “Mexi-” often comes with a smaller overall diameter as well (depends on application, I guess).

Urambo Tauro > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 08/29/2018 at 10:34

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Yeah, I suppose that wheel diameter isn’t really an inherent feature of stance, which is why they left it out. Just like how they left stretched tires out of the diagram too.

“Mexiflush” is an odd term, though. It’s nice to have a term for that type of stance, but it’s still a weird name for it. Not just because of the “Mexi-” prefix, but it’s not even flush! Sure, the whee l sticks out more than regular flush, and that’s probably how the term came to be. But it’s definitely not flush anymore.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Urambo Tauro 08/29/2018 at 11:22

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I guess it’s to differentiate from the normal lowrider style (smaller wheels, not flush or pushed out ).

Always cracks me up to see a Jeep with super-wide spacers... You’re doing it wrong!

Urambo Tauro > Urambo Tauro 08/29/2018 at 11:25

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H ere’s another diagram, similar to the one above, but it says “paddiflush” instead of “mexiflush”. It also shows stretched tires, but again, I’m not convinced that stretched tires are necessarily relevant to stance.

!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

beardsbynelly - Rikerbeard > Urambo Tauro 08/29/2018 at 21:04

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I disagree there too, if a car has ‘stance’ or is ‘stanced’ or is someone is ‘stancing’ their car, then it falls into one of the categories that is form over function. I agree that purists would argue it does not include the “ low” or “dropped” categories but only refers to the various flush categories.. but it’s grown to mean more than that.

The English language is a bastard and words mean whatever the speaker intends them to mean. Which is why we have Schrodinger words like Literally and inflammable.

BigBlock440 > Urambo Tauro 08/29/2018 at 23:32

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I agree that’s what the diagram is trying to depict, but also using the same generic “coilover” term to imply an upgrade ignoring that they’ve already got coilovers and they just replaced them with different ones.  Like saying “I put brakes on my car this weekend”, nobody knows if it’s replacements or upgrades.