Only Three People Bought an NSX in July

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind) 08/20/2018 at 08:28 • Filed to: Acura

1

22

Ford delivered 7 of their $450,000 GTs in July, an incredible feat since Multimatic hasn’t even put up the tents yet. Even though priced to kill the BMW i8, no one can afford to buy an NSX. Doesn’t matter how much carbon you spec, you need to be ok with losing $70,000 (private sale) in a segment where the cars either depreciate $35,000 or appreciate over the same ownership term.

Im grateful Honda gave this a second (third?) shot. It went from what would have been a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for less than half the cost but was cancelled in 2009, just two years after the successor was announced in 2007 and barely a year before it was going to be released in 2010 (just ahead of the LFA and two years after the R35 GT-R). But the US car industry collapsed between 2007 through 2009. And when I say collapse I mean practically half of the US (the largest car market in the entire world at the time) stopped buying new cars without warning.

So the NSX was cancelled along with Acura launching in Japan.

https://oppositelock.kinja.com/automotive-reminder-1780580019

At the end of 2011, Acura announced they were going to try building an NSX again and in 2012 they showed off the concept we all know too well due to a roadster version appearing in Avengers that year. Six years ago we saw the current concept the NSX is based on and it hit market four years later. People havent even payed off their Accords from 2012 and we complain that it took Acura too long to build the current car.

Timeline:

2005 - NSX ends production (finally!)

2007 - NSX successor announced

2009 - Front-engined, V10, nothing like the orginal NSX is cancelled! Meaning no one was waiting on the car anymore. It’s done, it’s over, the end, fin!

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

2010 - 1st gen NSX can be purchased for $25,000, easily!

2011 - A rumor about the return of a mid-engine, V6 NSX to along with the mid-engine Corvette and 911 articles.

2012 - Completely new NSX Concept shown. Production promised for 2015. NSX Roadster appears in Avengers.

- Japan plummets into Recession. LFA was already launched so Lexus left it to one model year. NSX would have been cancelled again but since it was a US project and the US rebounded like RDJ’s career, the NSX survived.

2015 - Production NSX is shown three years after the concept (as promised) with the engine switched from transverse to longitudinal because Ohio is full of badass Honda people.

2016 - Everyone disappointed because first NSX test cars were given to the press on easy to live with Continental tires in order to show off how easy the car was to live with. Problem was that they introduced the car on a track where every other automaker delivers their press cars with summer/cup tires, $6,000 sport packages and $30,000 Nurburgring Packages that have a 5% tack rate. It isn’t a ringer if the equipment is optional for one model year!

This current NSX is so far ahead of any other Honda production car ever produced in terms of performance... what’s the next most powerful Honda car ever? The RLX Sport Hybrid? The CTR is provably in the top five most powerful cars ever produced by Honda.

Honda built a twin turbo V6 with three electric motors, switched the layout in under 18 months and hasn’t had any powertrain issues?! We all know Honda’s long history of luck with V6s mated to automatics.

I think the NSX Sport Hybrid deserves another look. Three sold in July is just wrong.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 08:43

4

needs a manual though.

Wobbles the Mind > pip bip - choose Corrour 08/20/2018 at 08:59

10

I think the manual is in the glovebox.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 09:00

1

:P

Tekamul > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 09:10

1

The NSX isn’t really an ‘off the lot’ car, though. Most sales are special ordered, and they only make them some months of the year.

I think this is cherry picking. Oct-Jan they sold about 250 cars. That encompasses two delivery moths, and two months of clearing out cars on the lot.

Checking the listings, there are 36 listed nationally in stock. This time of year, they are artificially limited to ~800 a year globally . But they have out sold the GT quite considerably (as they should, the GT is super limited, ~250 a year ).

Ash78, voting early and often > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 09:10

1

Was it all Jerry Seinfeld, and did he give them all to Super Dave?

M.T. Blake > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 09:15

0

We need to go back to 2010... I’d buy a NSX!

Cé hé sin > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 09:47

0

Fast forward ten or fifteen years. It’ll be a classic and worth more than the ask ing price now.

Eury - AFRICA TWIN!!!!!!! > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 09:51

0

I’ve sat in one and really liked it. If I was operating in that financial circle and didn’t intend to sell it, I’d buy one. It seems like it could be used everyday and in all weather with the right tires while having good fuel economy. I like the styling and tech, and while it isn’t holding value now, I’d bet in 10yrs it’ll be a different story

The only other car that is similar capability wise is the i8, which I like and am on the edge of being able to afford a used one but getting in and out of it is a pain.

King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 10:16

1

Bit pricey for the core buyers and sadly they missed the window where there was a little less competition ( McLaren, Mercedes AMG, Aston, and Lotus hadn’t hit their current strides yet in the 100K+ range).

marshknute > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 10:42

1

People aren’t buying it because it’s an objectively underperforming car that delivers none of the promises it made:

It was originally  supposed to compete with the Ferrari 458 at a fraction of the price, but took so damn long to build that Ferrari’s new 488 has a 100hp advantage and gobs of turbo torque, thus eliminating the NSX’s electric motor advantage. A smart Acura salesman would instead claim that the NSX offers 918 Spyder technology for 911 Turbo money, but hilariously, it’s slower and no more fuel efficient than a 911 Turbo. The hybrid system was therefore a complete waste of time and effort.

And while it looks and sounds more exotic than a 911 Turbo, it can’t hold a candle to the 570S or R8 V10. Not to mention it comes from a second-rate manufacturer (in terms of brand image).

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 11:41

1

You know why the NSX isn’t selling?

It’s a $200,000 HONDA. That is the reason. Period. That is what customers are telling dealers. I actually had this chat with a HAM rep earlier this year at an event I was attending. Customers love the car. They love the looks. They love the drive.

Then they see what Honda’s asking and go “fuck no, I can buy a Ferrari for this.” So these things sit on lots. Six months ago dealers were getting approval to mark them down as much as $50k from sticker. Fifty thousand dollar drops! Which is what ACTUALLY moved them off the lots. If you want a 2017 NSX? Take the sticker, lop off a minimum $25 k , refuse to pay one penny more even with taxes and title, and now you’ve bought an NSX .

And the buyers? The buyers are picking one up, and fucking parking it forever. Maybe they take it to one or two car shows, but they don’t want to put miles on it, because “ it’s totally going to be just like the Alex Zenardi edition! If I put miles on it, it won’t appreciate as much! ” Dealers won’t get it out because these buyers are convinced 12 miles is too many miles.

And you don’t have to take my word for it there either. How many new NSXes do you see at Cars and Coffee? Okay, now remove the ones that the dealer brought on a trailer or the aftermarket company is using to show off their wheels. Yeah. Maybe you see one, once. Next week, “oh, I don’t want to put too many miles on it” or “oh, I was worried it was going to rain” or “I was worried about the road.”

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 13:11

0

Welcome to the new automotive market.

Lots of options for anyone interested in cars with a budget of 6 figures.

SO much so, that a mainstream manufacturer is viewed as second-rate, blasé, uninteresting also-ran.

Meanwhile such an option under 6-figures, made out of normal materials, is not offered.

NSX may be made to beat BMW i8, but it is going to suffer the same fate... prodigious depreciation in resale , but still insanely expensive to maintain.

These will be the next BMW E31s... interesting and attractive cars with a deceptively insanely now resale purchase prices... because the out-of-warranty maintenance and upkeep costs are those of a 6-figure rich-toy level, and the rich boys who didn’t buy them in the first initial sale round , and even the second-hand resale  round, will be well past them by the third round.

CRider > Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks 08/20/2018 at 15:14

1

People said the $450k Ford GT would never sell, but there’s a waiting list several years longer than the planned production run and they go for well over a million in the ‘used’ market. Honda botched the NSX, plain and simple. 

DaftRyosuke - So Long and Thanks for All the Fish! > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 15:30

1

Unfortunately I did not receive the $300,000 check I was hoping to get for my birthday in July, so my purchase of an NSX will have to be put on hold.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > CRider 08/20/2018 at 15:52

0

There is no waiting list for the NSX for a reason. No matter what it is a $200k Honda. It is not some magical all-singing all-dancing king-of-the-world supercar with a storied heritage. The grand sum of the NSX is “Ayrton Senna liked it” and “Alex Zanardi put his name on a trim level.”

It wasn’t some magical hypercar that pumped adrenaline and crack cocaine directly into your blood stream while shattering your vertebrae with acceleration. It didn’t win LeMans four times, three times, two times, or even once. Their best was one GT2 class win, with only 1 out of three cars entered finishing. Their turbocharged GT1 effort failed to even classify . They didn’t fare much  better in the SCCA World Challenge, either. While the ITA Integra cleaned house, the NSX was struggling against the BMW M3 and 328is on courses that HEAVILY favor handling over power.

The fact is, Honda sold exactly as many first gen NSXes as the world demanded. If you wanted an NSX? You go to the dealer, plunk down your cashier’s check, and Honda built you one. The styling aged exceptionally well, but the car’s mythology is completely undeserved. At the end of the day, i t is merely competent with a large dose of innovative technology, nowhere near the ‘giant killing hypercar that will always be king at the track’ that people make it out to be.

BadMotorScooter > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 16:18

2

It’s a good car, just priced wrong. It needs to be $125-$150k at the top. Then you have a legitimate value vs the competition. $130k for a ZR1 or an NSX? Hmm, I’d be tempted to go more exotic NSX even given the performance penalty. $130k 911 C2S/Carrera T or NSX? Hmm, I like the NSX there. The NSX at $175k+ is just too close to other better options (911 GT3/Turbo, 570S, etc). Value was the magical old NSX formula and the new one lacks the same value equation.

They should follow the GT-R playbook. Release it at a really low price, say $100-$110k and sell out the first year right away. The car develops a great following with high demand as a tremendous performance value. Order books are full and demand keep used prices high, further supporting new car sales and leases . Each year add a few bits and pieces, changes, special colors, etc and increase the MSRP 5-10%. Demand still stays high with limited production, strong resale and residuals to support leasing. 5-7 years in the MSRP is now $160-$180k with special editions and additional performance options justifying the additional cost, while still maintaining strong resale and used demand.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 08/20/2018 at 16:40

0

This is why I have been asking for a hybrid mid-engined car at a mainstream price point, on the MR2/Fiero methodology...

take FWD PHEV drivetrain (Chevy Voltec 2 , Honda Insight, etc...)

put behind driver. (like Fiero and MR2 used to)

put regenerative/charging/supplemental drive unit on the front axle (Bolt, other EV)

Make it out of steel/aluminum, (space frame chassis with plastic bodywork perhaps), use existing powertrain cradle assemblies and suspension components, brakes, ect... with off-the-shelf components, for initial manufacturing cost, as well as ongoing maintenance cost and spare parts.

Tune it up for similar performance to BMW i8, 200-250hp gas power plant, and another 100-150hp electric drive, with 6-12KWh battery availability, for full-speed electric-only drive mode, as well as hybrid parallel drive modes, charging, regenerative charging, and fixed-ratio high-speed kinetic final drive from the engine, with electric boost, and fully independent e-AWD biasing.

Drivetrain-wise there isn’t much more to a BMW i8 than there is to a Chevy Volt except layout placement , and the i8's turbocharged Inline-3 being a bit higher output. Volt has two motors in the front propulsion unit with the engine, where i8 has one motor at each axle, with the rear axle having the gas engine also.

NSX seems almost over-complicated, in comparison, with 4 driving modes, Quiet, Sport, Sport+, and Track... with two front axle motors/regenerative braking generators, as well as a twin turbocharged V6 and 9-speed dual-clutch gearbox, and rear axle traction motor/generator unit, and SH-AWD torque vectoring.

The i8 has less complexity, with half the engine, two traction motors, and no traditional transmission.

Front and rear axle traction motors, can work together for supplemental propulsion, or work as a through-the-road charging and regenerative braking system.

GM’s voltec 2 puts all of that on the front axle, with clutches and planetary gear sets to split and re-combine various components to do those things.

Two electric motors, three clutches, and two planetary mixing gear sets, allowing 5 drive modes, and regenerative braking... 2 electric-only drive modes speed, low-torque, high-extended hybrid drive, high-torque low-extended hybrid drive, and fixed ratio mode, that eliminates the double-conversion of kinetic to electric, back to kinetic energy, and reduces heat and electrical system stress.

The Voltec 2 system could be mounted as-is in a transverse-mid-engined location, or simplified to a Voltec-1 power unit with only two clutches and one ring-gear , while putting a Chevy Bolt electric traction motor axle assembly at the front end, similar to i8.

Such a car, built from an affordable space frame, with off-the-shelf components, could be built for MUCH less than the CF monocoque shell of the i8, or the complex chassis and drivetrain of the NSX, and sold to a much more mainstream audience, with a more mainstream cost of ownership long-term, and not have to be compared to Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren, and the myriad of other expensive and low-production luxury options on the market.

With 350-375 equivalent horsepower, combined with mid-engined dynamics, variable drive modes, and better fuel and power efficiency curves for only using the engine as needed to generate kinetic force, or to generate electrical power, not idling or being significantly under-used, just to have massive un-tapped power reserves in built as engine displacement.

I think there is real potential here.

Frankly, if Mazda gets involved, and starts using the compact, energy-dense Wankel Rotary as a power-efficient generator, and direct high-speed drive unit, that may blow the lid off this idea, even more than a reciprocating piston unit can.

Especially if they can sell it to mainstream enthusiasts, with few alternatives,  not just 6-figure rich people with an abundance of luxury premium sports car options.

dogisbadob > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 18:07

0

The problem is that the NSX is overpriced, and you have to pay $6000 to get it in blue.

The GTR is about $100k. The NSX may be worth $110-120k, but not 150k

TheYearIs1990 > Wobbles the Mind 08/20/2018 at 21:37

0

More people bought one in July, 28 years ago.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Wobbles the Mind 08/21/2018 at 18:25

0

I think the reason it hurts so much is that, like the S2000, it was the last hope of Honda producing something fun and int eresting for the US market. It is also a sign of how much they have fallen from having a performance sub brand .

the 2000 muscle car article last week got me thinking, it is interesting from 2000 -2010, how the japanese brands, when from offering sporty fun to nothing, and the us brands from little to a good chunck of the market. (yes I know the miata, mazdaspeed 3 and wrx still exist)

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Wobbles the Mind 08/21/2018 at 23:25

0

I only see the one same NSX around in Marin/SF, and this is an expensive car dense area, throw a rock and hit a 911. I would have to drive it to decide. There are just so many 911s, I would check out the NSX, GTR, Jaaaaaag R and the Merc GT if I were buying something expensive. 

Wheelerguy > BadMotorScooter 09/03/2018 at 03:52

0

Yeah. If anyone can benefit from the R35 playbook it’s this.