This Date in Aviation History: August 18 - August 21

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 08/21/2018 at 12:35 • Filed to: wingspan, planelopnik history, Planelopnik

7

40

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Welcome to This Date in Aviation History , getting of you caught up on milestones, important historical events and people in aviation from August 18 through August 21.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

(PHAN J. Mason, US Navy)

August 19, 1958 – The first flight of the Lockheed P-3 Orion. The modern carrier battle group is one of the most potent assemblages of warships ever put together. But in spite of all that firepower, it remains vulnerable to attack from submarines. Since U-Boats prowled the seas in WWI, navies have struggled to find the subs before the subs find them, and aircraft have come to play a vital role in submarine detection and defense. Following WWII, the US Navy fielded its first dedicated antisubmarine warfare (ASW) aircraft with the hunter-killer team of the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . That two-aircraft system was followed by the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , the first purpose-built carrier-borne ASW aircraft that was large enough to carry both the equipment to detect submarines and the weapons to counter them.

The Orion prototype, a converted Lockheed Electra (US Navy)

In August 1957, the Navy issued a call for design proposals to meet Type Specification 146 for a new land-based aircraft to fulfill the ASW role, complementing the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and replacing the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! flying boat. To meet their needs as quickly as possible and to reduce cost, the Navy encouraged manufacturers to modify an aircraft already in production. Concurrent with the Navy request, Lockheed was working on the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , a four-engine turboprop airliner that carried about 100 passengers and was the first large turboprop airliner in the US when it made its maiden flight in December of 1957. Lockheed proposed adapting the Electra for the ASW role, an idea that was accepted by the Navy, and a contract was awarded in May 1958. Production began immediately on a flying prototype, and the first Orion was fitted with a simulated weapons bay and carried a mock-up of the Magnetic Anomaly Detection (MAD) boom in the rear of the aircraft. While by no means a production-ready aircraft, and still looking very much like an Electra, the mock-up gave the Navy a good idea of the feasibility of the design.

A P-3B Orion of Patrol Squadron 9 (VP-9) armed with four Bullpup air-to-ground missiles in 1969. (PH2 D.T. Isenberg, US Navy)

VP-9 (PD 7) P-3B (BuNo 152737) armed with four Bullpup air-to-ground missiles, enroute from NAS Moffett Field to the Point Mugu missile range. Photo taken by PH2 D.T. Isenberg, 13 February 1969. Photo from the Naval Historical Center.While the P-3 retains the wings, tail, basic structure and engines of the Electra, the fuselage was shortened, a weapons bay was added, and upgrades were made to the avionics. Four !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! turboprop engines take the Orion to a top speed of 411 knots (about 466 mph) with a combat radius of over 1,500 miles. Once on station, the Orion can loiter for up to three hours at 1,500 feet. If an enemy sub is detected, ten wing stations and eight internal bomb bay stations can hold up to 20,000 pounds of air-to-surface missiles, depth charges, mines, torpedoes or sonobuoys. The Orion can also carry the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , though that capability was retired in 1993.

A P-3 Orion from Patrol Squadron 10 (VP-10) flies over a Soviet Victor III class submarine. (US Navy)

The P-3 was introduced in 1962, and its primary mission was to track Soviet submarines lurking around US fleets and destroy them if the Cold War suddenly became hot. Patrolling Orions were often shadowed by opposing aircraft and, in one high-profile !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! on April 1, 2001, an Orion operating near China was struck by a Chinese !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! fighter, causing the loss of the fighter. The Orion was forced to land on the Chinese Island of Hainan, leading to an international incident that was eventually resolved with the release of the Orion and its crew and the return of the aircraft. The P-3 has shown a remarkable adaptability, and Lockheed has produced a host of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , including the WP-3D Orion hurricane hunter for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. A total of 757 Orions have been produced, a number which includes 107 aircraft built under license by Kawasaki in Japan. They are operated by a number of export countries, including Iran, who received its aircraft when Iran was still allied with the US. After more than 50 years of service, the Orion soldiers on, but it is in the process of being replaced by the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , another sub hunter derived from a civilian airliner, the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .  

A pair of WP-3D Orion hurricane hunters. (NOAA)

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

August 19, 1871 – The birth of Orville Wright. Orville Wright was one of seven children born to Milton Wright and Susan Koerner. Wilbur, his older brother, was born on April 16, 1867 near Milville, Indiana, and Orville, four years his junior, was born in Dayton, Ohio, where much of the brothers’ groundbreaking work in powered flight took place. When Orville was just eight years old, his father presented him and his brother with a toy helicopter powered by a rubber band. The two were fascinated by it and, when it broke, they built their own. That simple toy inspired the brothers to a lifelong fascination with flight. Neither of the brothers finished high school, and Orville’s first foray into business was as a printer. He built his own press, but then the two brothers decided to capitalize on the bicycle craze sweeping the nation and started their own bicycle repair shop, eventually producing their own bicycles.

Orville Wright with the 1901 glider. (US Library of Congress)

In 1899, Orville and Wilbur fully turned their attention to aviation, and requested publications about early pioneers of flight from the Smithsonian Institution. From the beginning, the pair focused on the difficult problem of flight control, and worked on a system that warped the wings to control flight. Starting in 1900, the brothers built on the pioneering work of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and designed a series of gliders to test their theories. They even went so far as to build their own wind tunnel in their bike shop to test their designs. Their breakthrough came in 1902, when they developed a means to control their gliders in all !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! : roll, pitch, and yaw. The brothers also made a breakthrough when they conceived of the propeller as a spinning wing rather than something more akin to a boat screw.

Orville and Wilbur Wright photographed in 1908 (Author unknown)

Having proven many of their theories with gliders, the brothers were ready to try powered flight. But they needed a suitably light and powerful engine, so they turned to perhaps the greatest unsung hero of the dawn of aviation, their shop mechanic !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Taylor, with guidance from the brothers, built the water-cooled four-cylinder inline engine that would power the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . To save weight, the block was made from cast aluminum, a first for the day. The chains used to turn the propellers were similar to those used on bicycles, but were actually heavy-duty drive chains produced for use in cars. The brothers moved their operation to Kill Devil Hills, North Carolina, near Kitty Hawk, where steady winds and tall dunes would help with their continued experiments. After a toss of a coin, it was Orville who made the flight on the morning of December 17, 1903 that changed the world. Orville’s flight lasted just 12 seconds, and covered 120 feet at a speed of 6.8 mph, but that brief flight ushered in the age of the airplane.

Orville Wright (in left seat, wearing a wool cap) trains 1st Lt. Frank Lahm in the US Army’s first aircraft in 1909 (US Air Force)

Following their initial successes, the Brothers went about the task of proving their achievements to the world, and legally protecting their inventions and discoveries with patents. By 1908, they were ready to display their invention to a skeptical world, and Wilbur traveled to France to perform a series of demonstration flights. In the hopes of winning a military contract, Orville demonstrated the Flyer to the US Army. When the Army purchased a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! on August 2, 1909, it became the first military aircraft in history. The pair faced numerous challenges to their patents, particularly by !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , but Wilbur died of typhoid fever in 1912, two years before the Wrights were victorious in their patent fight, and he did not live to see the success of the company he founded with his brother. Orville, who was not as skilled a businessman as Wilbur, sold the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! to Glenn L. Martin in 1915, and made his last flight as a pilot in 1918 flying a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

The board of the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics photographed in 1929. Orville Wright is seated third from left. The original caption for the photograph identifies him as, “Orville Wright, Inventor of the airplane.” (US Library of Congress)

Though he left the airplane business, Orville continued to be a proponent of aviation, and served for 28 years on the board of the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (NACA), the predecessor to the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (NASA). IN 1936, he was elected to the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Orville flew for the very last time on April 19, 1944 in a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! piloted by reclusive billionaire !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . During the flight, Orville commented that, at 126 feet, the wingspan of the Connie was longer than his first flight 41 years earlier. Orville Wright died on January 30, 1948, three months after !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! broke the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! while flying the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . In a powerful testament to the pace of technological advances that began with the Orville and his brother Wilbur, the world had progressed from the First Flight at less than 7 mph to surpassing Mach 1 in the span of one man’s lifetime. To recognize their achievements, and celebrate the wonder of aviation that the Wright Brothers gave birth to, Orville’s birthdate is celebrated in the US as !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

August 21, 1944 – The first flight of the Grumman F8F Bearcat. The Second World War was not only the heyday of the piston-powered military aircraft, it also witnessed the birth of the jet-powered warplane. But new technologies can be slow to take hold, and while jet power would one day take over military aviation, propeller technology was reaching its zenith, and advanced fighters that had been conceived early in the war reached their full potential as the war drew to a close. The Grumman F8F Bearcat, which first came to the drawing board in 1942, was one of the fastest piston-powered fighters ever built, and the final piston-engined aircraft produced by the storied !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

The prototype XF8F-1 Bearcat at NACA Langley Field in Virginia in 1945. The Bearcat’s lineage with the Hellcat is readily apparent in this profile. (NASA)

Following the pivotal !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in June 1942, Grumman met with veterans of the battle to discuss the future of US Navy fighters. Pilots who fought against the Japanese discussed the shortcomings of their 1930s-era fighters, and specifically expressed their desire for an increased rate of climb so they could get their heavier fighters above the more nimble Japanese designs. So, to help American pilots gain the upper hand, Grumman designed the smallest possible fighter around the largest possible engine. They began work on what the company referred to as G58 by starting with the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , a fast and powerful fighter in its own right, and used the same !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! radial engine. To refine the design of the fuselage, Grumman shortened it by five feet and removed the dorsal ridge. This gave the new fighter a bubble canopy, the first for a US Navy fighter and afforded the pilot with a significant improvement in visibility. Thinner wings and flush rivets made the plane lighter and more aerodynamic. Where the Hellcat had a large, 3-bladed propeller, the Bearcat was given a slightly smaller, 4-bladed propeller. Further weight savings were found by making the wingtips detachable for carrier storage rather than using a heavy folding mechanism, and by reducing fuel capacity. Thus, the Bearcat proved to be an excellent interceptor, but the Hellcat was still needed for long-range missions. By the time Grumman was finished, the Bearcat was 20% lighter, had a climb rate that was improved by 30%, and, with a top speed of 421 mph, the Bearcat was 30 mph faster than the Hellcat. Grumman also provided the Navy with an extremely powerful fighter that was still small enough to operate from the Navy’s smaller escort carriers that regularly provided air cover for troop landing operations in the Pacific.

F-8F-1 Bearcat of the US Navy Blue Angels flight demonstration squadron. The Blue Angels flew the Bearcat from 1946-1949, the last propeller plane flown by the squadron. (Author unknown))

In October 1944, the Navy placed an order with Grumman for just over 2,000 Bearcats, plus another 1,800 modified aircraft to be built by General Motors. But with the end of the war in the Pacific in August 1945, the Grumman order was cut to 770 and the GM order was canceled altogether. Though the first Bearcats were delivered to combat squadrons and were operational in May 1945, the war ended before the F8F ever saw combat. Nevertheless, the Bearcat became the principal carrier-based fighter for the US Navy after WWII and equipped 24 Navy and US Marine Corps squadrons. French Bearcat pilots saw their first combat during the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and a number of fighters were transferred to the Republic of Vietnam, but they were retired in 1963 before seeing extensive action in the Vietnam War. The Bearcat was also the second airplane flown by the US Navy’s !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! flight demonstration squadron after the Grumman F6F Hellcat, and its size, power and maneuverability made it a popular aircraft among air racers after the war.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Short Takeoff

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

August 18, 1965 – The first flight of the Kamov Ka-26, a light utility helicopter that was built in large numbers and has found its most popular use as an agricultural top dresser. The Ka-26 (NATO reporting name Hoodlum ) is powered by two !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! nine-cylinder radial engines housed in external pods that drive a set of contra-rotating !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , thus eliminating the need for a counter-torque rotor at the rear. A removable pod behind the cockpit can be configured for passengers, medevac or light cargo, and a chemical hopper can also be fitted for agricultural use. A total of 816 were produced from 1969-1985, and it was later developed into the more powerful !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

(US Air Force)

August 18, 1945 – The US suffers its last air combat casualty of WWII. Though the Japanese government had signaled its surrender three days earlier, some Japanese pilots continued to attack American bombers carrying out reconnaissance flights over the Japanese homeland. Two !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , tasked with a photo reconnaissance mission over Tokyo, were attacked by 17 Japanese fighters, heavily damaging one of the Dominators. Three crew members were seriously wounded and 19-year-old Sergeant Anthony Marchione, a photographer’s assistant, was killed. Following the attack, the propellers were removed from all Japanese aircraft to prevent future attacks.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

August 19, 1980 – All passengers and crew of Saudia Flight 163 die from a fire after the plane makes a successful emergency landing. Saudia Flight 163 (HZ-AHK) was regularly scheduled !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! service from Riyadh International Airport to Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Seven minutes after takeoff, a fire broke out in the cargo hold and the passenger compartment filled with smoke. As the fire spread, it burned through the aft passenger compartment floor and severed the engine control cables for the center engine. Despite this, the crew managed to return to Riyadh and land safely, though it continued to taxi for nearly three minutes before stopping on a taxiway. Rescue crews had to drive to where the plane stopped, but did not open the doors to the aircraft until the engines stopped, a full 23 minutes after the successful emergency landing. By that time, all 287 passengers and 14 crew had been killed due to smoke inhalation. It was the second worst death toll in any single aircraft accident after !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , the worst accident ever involving an L-1011, and the deadliest aviation disaster that did not involve a crash or breakup of any kind.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

(Embraer)

August 19, 1969 – Aircraft manufacturer Embraer is founded by Brazil’s Ministry of Aeronautics. Empresa Brasileira de Aeronáutica was founded as a government-owned corporation as Brazil sought to gain a foothold in aircraft manufacturing and reduce its reliance on foreign aircraft manufacturers. Embraer’s first aircraft was the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , a 21-passenger twin-turboprop developed for civilian and military customers. In 1994, Embraer became a private company, though the government retains a share of the company, and it has expanded into the third-largest airplane manufacturer in the world behind Boeing and Airbus, with production facilities in the United States and China. In 2018, Boeing took an 80% stake in Embraer to develop smaller regional airliners in an attempt to counter Airbus’ acquisition of the Bombardier CSeries.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Republic of Korea Air Force)

August 20, 2002 – The first flight of the KAI T-50 Golden Eagle, a two-seat supersonic trainer developed in a partnership with !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and the first supersonic aircraft developed by South Korea. One of only handful of supersonic trainers, the T-50 entered service with the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) in 2005 and is currently operated by Korea, Indonesia, Iraq and the Philippines. The T-50 was an unsuccessful contender for the US Air Force’s !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! to procure a new trainer to replace the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , and an armed version has also been developed for light attack.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

August 20, 1963 – The first flight of the BAC One-Eleven, a short-range airliner and the second jet-powered airliner to enter service in Europe after the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . Also known as the BAC 111 and the BAC 1-11, the airliner was developed to replace the turboprop-powered !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , though early sales were dominated by purchases from US carriers. Originally designed to carry 89 passengers, subsequent variants accommodated up to 119 passengers and, with 244 produced in the UK and Romania, it became one of the most successful British airliners of its day.  

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

(US Navy)

August 20, 1923 – The first flight of the rigid airship USS Shenandoah (ZR-1) , the first of four rigid airships commissioned by the US Navy. Shenandoah was constructed at Lakehurst Naval Air Station in New Jersey and its design was based on the German !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! LZ-96. Like its German counterpart, Shenandoah was intended for fleet reconnaissance duties, and she was the first American airship to cross the North America in 1924, flying from New Jersey to California. Shenandoah was lost on September 2, 1925 during its 57th flight when the airship was torn apart by a thunderstorm over Ohio, killing 14 members of its 43-man crew.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

(Cpl Paul Oldfield/MOD)

August 21, 1974 – The first flight of the BAE Systems Hawk, a trainer developed by Hawker Siddeley (later British Aerospace) to replace the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and still older !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! trainers. The aircraft features a tandem cockpit, and the rear seat is elevated above the student to provide excellent visibility for the flight instructor. The single !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! afterburning turbofan gives the Hawk a maximum speed of 0.84. The simplicity of the design also lent itself to numerous upgrades and developments, including a single-seat ground attack variant in which the forward seat is removed and the space filled with avionics, computers, radar, laser rangefinder or forward-looking infrared. Over a 1,000 have been built, and it is currently flown by 13 nations, including the US Navy, where it is known as the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Connecting Flights

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

If you enjoy these Aviation History posts, please let me know in the comments. And if you missed any of the past articles, you can find them all at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . You can also find more stories about aviation, aviators and airplane oddities at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 12:46

0

It’s interesting that of the four US rigid airships, only one didn’t experience a storm-related loss, and that one wasn’t even made in the US.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 12:51

5

One of my closest friends from church is a retired P3 test pilot and he has a very dramatic war story about flying the recon version of the P3 out of Japan in the aftermath of the KAL shootdown over Sakalin Island. My friend was placed on the crew at the last minute an was on station and had just sat down for his turn at the left yoke when an E8 from back in the tube burst into the flight station clutching his rosary and reporting that the USSR had scrambled fighters with orders to splash the P3. So Robert chopped the power — he said the P3 was as aerodynamic as a toolbox when you cut the power — and scrubbed all of his altitude and plunged to 50 feet off the water and pushed the throttles to the firewall and headed toward the closest American warship. (That ship turned out to be a Russian ship, and he blew by in his P3 at 400+ knots and 50 feet of altitude... ) Along the way, each of his four engines threw a warning light to say that they were getting hot from all the fuel he was pouring into them, which he says he interpreted as a confirmation that they were running at maximum effort. When he found the American warship, he flew a very tight pylon around that ship until an escort arrived to take him back to Japan.

He said that if the Russian fighters that were dispatched had been equipped with look down/shoot down capability, he’d have been splashed for certain .

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/21/2018 at 12:54

1

Quite a story. As is this one , which I’m sure you’ve read. Last airshow I went to was heavily USAF, but there was a beat up P-3 there as well. I shared the link with one of the pilots.

ttyymmnn > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 08/21/2018 at 12:55

0

That is interesting. 

Ash78, voting early and often > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 08/21/2018 at 13:00

0

Death traps

Ash78, voting early and often > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 13:02

2

Orville Wright’s autograph adorns my great grandfather’s pilots license from circa 192 5. It was the interwar period and apparently he did a lot of publicity for flight schools during that time.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 13:03

1

Yes it is. As is the AirSpaceMag story, which I have read several times.

ttyymmnn > Ash78, voting early and often 08/21/2018 at 13:06

1

That’s awesome. I’d love to see a photo of it.

Just Jeepin' > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 13:07

0

Were there changes in safety procedures after Saudia Flight 163?

ttyymmnn > Just Jeepin' 08/21/2018 at 13:07

0

I can’t say for sure, but there were already ample procedures in place. The crew simply didn’t follow them. 

Just Jeepin' > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 13:09

0

What about the rescue crews who didn’t open the doors until the engines stopped?

3point8isgreat > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 13:10

1

This makes me want to go seek out all the weird, and less shiny, planes at the airshow here in a few weeks.

ttyymmnn > 3point8isgreat 08/21/2018 at 13:13

0

Please do. Their crews will be eager to tell you all about them

ttyymmnn > Just Jeepin' 08/21/2018 at 13:13

0

It’s my understanding that t hey’re not allowed to approach the aircraft until the engines are shut down.

valis86 > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 13:15

0

one of my favorite The Oatmeal comics is about Roddenberry.....

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/plane

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 13:21

0

The flight 163 story breaks my heart.

Also, that T-50 looks so small.

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 08/21/2018 at 13:29

1

Such an unnecessary tragedy.

The T-50 is probably about the same size as the T-38, but perhaps a bit fatter. It would be a neat plane to have to run around with, if you had the means. It’s very similar to the YAK-130.

ttyymmnn > valis86 08/21/2018 at 13:31

1

That man walked away from more than his share of crashes. 

E39, K5. Whatever it takes. > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 14:19

0

Thanks for the P3 write up! My Father flew in Patrol Squadron Four (VP-4)(also know as the Skinny Dragons) during the Vietnam War.  Barely out of diapers, I could point out a P3 over any other airplane.

To add...my friend’s father was a Lockheed engineer on the P3. This resulted in Tim’s middle name being Or ion.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 14:37

0

Some pics from the Wright Brothers Memorial in Kitty Hawk from our trip back in June

Ash78, voting early and often > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 14:45

1

SR20 request and ye shall receive! Thanks to my dad who color-scanned the original and printed me a copy for our family history binder.

I had the date wrong — 1917. The old man was maybe 20 at the time. The second page was a “safe passage and render aid” document in 6 languages. As you can see, the French regulated the airways at the time thanks in part to all of their work in those days (far eclipsing what we did with it for the first 2 decades). This pic was in a French monoplane of some kind, none of us are exactly sure which one.

He was (and still is) the wealthiest and most interesting guy from either side of my family. Never had to work much except for passive investments, but mostly traveled in the typical East Coast “idle rich guy” fashion, a la Great Gatsby or Teddy Roosevelt. In the 1950s and 60s he owned a couple Jags at a time, among other endeavors. Smoked 2 packs of filterless cigarettes a day and had healthy lungs until he died around age 80.

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 16:07

1

My thought exactly, a fun plane to run around in.

ttyymmnn > E39, K5. Whatever it takes. 08/21/2018 at 16:25

0

Great story, and thanks for sharing. If you didn’t see it in the other comments, check out this article . It’s fantastic. Thanks for reading.

ttyymmnn > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 08/21/2018 at 16:26

1

It says “genius,” but there was also a hell of a lot of hard work and failure along the way. It’s been many years since I’ve been to that monument. I need to get back. I miss the Outer Banks.

E39, K5. Whatever it takes. > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 16:34

1

Sent the links to my Father. Here was his response...

“ Thanks for the article! Brings back memories of my P3 days. ”

ttyymmnn > Ash78, voting early and often 08/21/2018 at 16:39

1

That’s absolutely fascinating. Thanks. Not that you would ever part with it but I wonder if there’s any monetary  value to that document. Antiques Roadshow!

ttyymmnn > E39, K5. Whatever it takes. 08/21/2018 at 16:39

0

Excellent!

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 18:48

1

I sent my friend the link to the account that I posted. Naturally, he said nothing about that because he’s too modest. But he tells me that in his career he flew a at least 185 P3 variants.

ttyymmnn > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/21/2018 at 19:14

1

That’s why I said “a host of variants” and offered a link. No way to list them all, or even the most important ones. It was a remarkable airframe.

E39, K5. Whatever it takes. > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 20:29

0

Here is his response to the linked article:

“Our planes rarely looked real clean because they flew a lot. The closest they came to being washed was going through a “car wash” after a mission where they were sprayed with high pressure fresh water to get the salt water off. People were always amazed to see the P3 back up.”

Thanks again!

wafflesnfalafel > ttyymmnn 08/21/2018 at 21:02

1

walked through a P3 up at NAS Whidbey with my dad earlier this year - they sound so distinctive...

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Just Jeepin' 08/21/2018 at 21:18

1

As I recall from past research, they couldn't open the doors because the cabin was still pressurized.

ttyymmnn > E39, K5. Whatever it takes. 08/21/2018 at 22:58

0

That’s fantastic. They are true workhorses, no doubt. As for backing up, the description in that A&S Magazine article is priceless. I grew up in Norfolk, VA, and I’ve always had a soft spot for the Navy, though I never served. As a musician, I often played with military players back in the day, and it was always a lot of fun. Being relatively close to NAS Norfolk, we’d see Hawkeyes every day, lots of helicopters, and trips to VA Beach always included lots of Tomcats out of NAS Oceana. Growing up there really stoked my fascination with aviation. Fly Navy!

E39, K5. Whatever it takes. > ttyymmnn 08/22/2018 at 05:05

1

Truly made my Dad’s day! Called him after work and he was so fired up.

Navy brat from 1968 to 1977. Moffet, Barber’s Point, Iwa kuni, Alameda, Miramar. Musician as well.

Photo of Dad from his Cruise Book. Bottom left.  

Rock Bottom > ttyymmnn 08/22/2018 at 11:21

1

I worked with part of the “ P-3 replacement evaluation team” years ago, and they used to tell a funny story about flight test. I guess they were riding along in an upgraded P-3 that Lockheed proposed as a P-8 alternative. Over the Pacific, t he pilot shut off 2 engines and continued along on the mission. The co- pilot turned to the Navy guys   and said “I’d like to see a P-8 do that”.  A good laugh was had by all.

ttyymmnn > Rock Bottom 08/22/2018 at 11:40

1

It’s a very, very solid point. The P-3 vs P-8 loiter time is no contest.  I think the AF is finally coming around to the understanding that jet engines aren’t for everything. I guess it boils down to aircraft that are currently in production vs aircraft that aren’t being made any more and aging rapidly.

Rock Bottom > ttyymmnn 08/22/2018 at 14:45

0

I’d be interested to know how that benefit of faster P-8 transit time was weighted against the stupendous loiter time of the P-3. I’m fairly sure they just lifted most of the detection components (like the AAS pod) and weapons from the late model P-3, so I assume that faster transit time is about the only physical advantage of the P-8? Maybe cheaper infrastructure costs related to it’s 737-ish-ness?

ttyymmnn > Rock Bottom 08/22/2018 at 15:02

1

Yes, I suppose time-to-target would be an important factor, but my unprofessional opinion is that it boils down to having an aircraft that is currently in production. It will be much easier to develop variants, have spare parts, etc. And the larger airframe alone gives them the opportunity for future capabilities.

As I sit and type this, though, I wonder if any thought was ever given to making an ASW Hercules.......

Googling.......

Apparently, LM was all over that idea, but just not for the US Navy. It seems to me that such an aircraft would tick all the boxes: capability, adaptability, loiter time , range. And it’s currently in production. And even better, they’ve even managed to land and Herk and take off again from a carrier in the distant past.  Interesting.

Link

Link

Rock Bottom > ttyymmnn 08/22/2018 at 15:16

0

Heck, we can take this  all the way to T yler’s vision of a truly aquatic C-130!

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/a-c-130-hercules-amphibian-makes-too-much-sense-to-be-t-1716610531

ttyymmnn > Rock Bottom 08/22/2018 at 16:19

1

Interesting! I didn’t read the whole piece (Tyler always needed a good editor, and he still does ), but I’m guessing there would need to be some significant strengthening of the hull. But I suppose it could work. Still, I think you’re better off with a flying boat that was designed form the git-go as a flying boat.