Oppo, I am pissed.

"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove) 06/29/2018 at 17:27 • Filed to: work rant

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So pissed, in fact, that I am now going to rant about a technical work issue that has nothing to do with cars. Feel free to take a nap or get a drink or something while I get this out of my system.

As part of what I do, I grow mammalian cells in a dish with nutrient-filled growth medium. This rant is about cells made from human embryonic kidney. I need these cells, and so I bought a vial from the American Type Culture Collection, a corporation that maintains repositories of such things so scientists like me can buy them when we need to. So, I buy a vial of these things, it’s about $500 for one little vial. I grow then up, and bad things start growing in them. Probably yeast contamination. They are ruined.

So, we get them to send us another vial. We do controls on our end to prove that we did not introduce any microbial contamination by anything we did or used . Cells are contaminated again, which we document. It’s definitely their fault.

ATCC tech support has us fill out a detailed troubleshooting form about every aspect of what we did and used. Fine. We want to get to the root of the problem. We’re scientists after all.

Instead of working the problem, they used our form to try and poke holes on our end and conclude that we caused the contamination. The long- winded reply I just got in my email is full of corporate bullshit about how they test rigorously and blah blah...all CYA stuff. There speculations hold no water in light of the evidence we provided.  Did they actually do the experiment we did and thaw a vial of the same lot to confirm or refute our result?

No. They did not.

They conclude with this little gem, and this is the best part:

Unfortunately, we cannot offer a free of charge replacement. However, we can offer a 10% discount on the repurchase of 1 vial of CRL-3214.

Gee, a 10% discount so I can throw more of my good money after bad on another vial of your contaminated cells that I can’t use for my research and waste more of my time doing it ! What swell folks they are! I’m going to go see my department administrator now and find out if I can tell financial services to not pay the invoice.

If you’ve stuck with this to the end, here’s an E-type coupe for your time.

LOREM IPSUM > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 17:53

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Guess a charge back on the corporate credit card isn't an option then?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 17:56

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wkiernan > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 17:57

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“ Unfortunately we cannot...” When you say it’s “ unfortunate” then English speakers must conclude that you are saying that you regret it, but you are also saying that for some mysterious, undisclosed reason you are forced to do this thing you regret. Do tell us more? What are these forces acting upon you that require that you do this admittedly regrettable thing?  Who did this to Danny and Sue?

benjrblant > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 17:58

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Always disappointing when someone / some company in a professional work environment’s default reaction is the CYA move. Blame the customer! They’re the idiots! That’ll tell em!

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:04

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That sucks. Reminds me of the Phantom of Heilbronn - the serial killer who left her DNA at 40 crime scenes. Turns out she was a worker at a factory which manufactured the cotton swabs used to collect evidence at the scene....

Whoops.

Any chance you can isolate the kidney cells with a differential growth medium?

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:08

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10/10 would send them well ripened stool samples.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:14

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That’s terrible Cotomer Sevis.

Unfortunately, we cannot offer a free of charge replacement.

Chariotoflove > LOREM IPSUM 06/29/2018 at 18:17

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I just went to the administrator in our department office. She referred me to someone in financial services to make sure, but she thinks I can’t get out of paying the invoice. I’d like it to be like my VISA card, where I can contest a card charge , and VISA handles it for me.

Chariotoflove > wkiernan 06/29/2018 at 18:18

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I know, that language really puts me over the edge! What they mean is, “unfortunately for you , you’re screwed.”

Bastards.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:20

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Sounds shitty. Are there other suppliers you can buy these samples through? If so might be a good opportunity to threaten to take your business (including for other supplies) elsewhere.

My wife is a scientist and has similar rants quite frequently too. Usually it’s some kind of equipment malfunction or freezer going haywire repeatedly, the manufacturer claiming to “fix” it and it repeatedly breaking – and all their experiments getting ruined in the meantime. She’s also had a few instances of them pretty much straight up telling her she’s wrong and doesn’t know what she’s doing, after which she’s usually given them a nice few earfuls.

Chariotoflove > benjrblant 06/29/2018 at 18:21

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Yeah, they want to appear like they care about the customer as long it doesn’t take too much effort.  Then, they’re all, “go away, you bother me.”

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/29/2018 at 18:24

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Well, these are a specially engineered immortalized cell line for growing retrovirus for gene delivery. I couldn’t recreate them feasibly. However, I may have located another source.  And you bet I’ll pay attention to the medium formulation.  I’ll probably do it myself with my own hands this time, just because that’s how I make myself feel better about frustrations, by doing something with my hands.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:25

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W hen we pay invoices I have to approve them for payment, if the service was defective like in this case I have the option of not approving the invoice or setting the payment to $0.

Chariotoflove > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 06/29/2018 at 18:25

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Now that has me thinking. brb...

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 06/29/2018 at 18:27

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“Yeah, unfortunately you guys suck.”

How hard do you think it was to not email that to them?

Chariotoflove > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 06/29/2018 at 18:30

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Oh yeah. Once in a while, if it’s a local or smaller business, they really care about work of mouth. Then, you can get aggressive and make it worth their while to do it right. Harder if they’re a big company with customers from all over the world.

I think I have another source. I may not waste anymore time on these ATCC asshats. I’ m gonna chill over the weekend, and take it up Monday.

Tell your wife she has my sympathy.

LOREM IPSUM > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:31

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That is unfortunate.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:32

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And let me guess - you don’t have other options to buy these cells, either, right? 

Chariotoflove > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 06/29/2018 at 18:32

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I have to approve the disbursement from my grant, as well. The question is, if I refuse, will the university stand up to the company when they freeze all sales to everyone else here until we pay up? I’m told it’s happened before.

The university isn’t exactly stellar at cotomer sevis, either.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:34

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No way to isolate the kidney cells you have? All of the lab work I’ve done was with animals, not cell lines. I just remember using selective and differential media for isolating cells when I took microbiology in college. I figured there must be a way to do it with the cells you have.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 06/29/2018 at 18:34

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I may have located another source. I’ll call Monday. I don’t like wasting money, but  I’m more upset at being treated shabbily and at the weeks we lost because of these ass monkeys instead of doing research.

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/29/2018 at 18:38

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Well, you can treat with antimicotics and antibacterials to try and week out the contaminant. It’s kind of like chemotherapy for cells. But you need to figure out what you have first, and then you worry that the cell lines has changed properties after being through that wringer. So, you have to characterize them to be sure.

It’s moot at this point, because when the flask got overrun, it killed everything, and we bleached it.  But, I like your kind of thinking.  Wanna come work in a research lab at a frustrating job for little pay but good benefits?

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:42

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As part of what I do, I grow mammalian cells in a dish with nutrient-filled growth medium.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:44

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The time you’ve wasted is way more valuable than those cells - hope you find a better source!

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 06/29/2018 at 18:44

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Yeah, it’s kinda like that, except I have a white coat, and my beard is better trimmed.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 06/29/2018 at 18:46

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Thanks.  I knew Oppo would cheer me up, regardless.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:48

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Just like alcohol, but cheaper and less hangover!!

You never emailed me, did you? o__O

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 06/29/2018 at 18:50

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Nope, but I was planning to root through the old posts and dig up that addy.

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:54

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And spam the shit out of it, right?? It’s at yahoo if I wasn’t clear enough.

Sounds like a good stiff drink may be in order for you tonight - we’re getting pizza, maybe I’ll crack open a red here...  

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 18:57

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You ever see that movie?

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 19:00

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My first job out of college was as a research assistant in a medical college. After six months on the job, Dr. S. told me that I needed to quit and go to grad school. He   acknowledged my contributions to his work by including me as an author on his papers. I think this was also a way to motivate me to go back to school. It worked.

I always liked research and teaching advanced courses, but having to teach freshmen while worrying about getting grants drove me away from academia. I would seriously consider going back to academia after get my kids through college. That is, if I could find the right position.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 19:21

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While it may or may not work out, I’d like to think there is a staffer in the finance office that is going to be happy to get a green light to flex a little bureaucratic muscle.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 06/29/2018 at 19:44

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I dunno what’s for dinner, but I do have a cool beer in the fridge.

Some would argue that everything I write is spam...

WilliamsSW > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 19:51

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It’s Oppo - it’s all spam in one form or another

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 06/29/2018 at 19:51

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Of course.

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/29/2018 at 19:53

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I teach professional students. They still act like freshman, though.

The grant writing and uncertainty are tough. And the compliance. Oh the compliance! Mouse protocols, biosafety protocols, loads of crap to wade through just to keep doing the good parts.

But some days, it’s all worth it.

Chariotoflove > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 06/29/2018 at 19:54

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Gotta find that person and egg him on.

Chariotoflove > WilliamsSW 06/29/2018 at 19:59

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There is that.

But with Coke or Pepsi?

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/the-olympia-restaurant-cheeseburger-chips-and-pepsi/3506023

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 20:28

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I hear you. We had both mice and rats. We were also dealing with controlled substances. Dr. S. had a lot of work going on, so I had a whole mess of undergrad, grad, and med students to oversee and instruct. Dr. S. set up the protocols , I made sure they were followed. The best part was teaching the students everything from proper care and handling of the animals to sample preparation and analysis. I miss those days.

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/29/2018 at 20:30

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I hate rats. I hate mice. I hate having to pay per diems. But there’s no way around it.

I met my wife in a lab. I’d love it if she could organize and run the lab.She’d have everything ship shape.  Alas.    

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 20:47

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Mice I don’t like. Little bastards always want to bite. Rats, however, are surprisingly docile. I had to do GI intubations and give injections, but I was never bitten by one of the rats. Since we were dealing with animals addicted to controlled substances, we were the only ones allowed into the animal room. It meant we had to do our own cage swaps, but it did save us quite a bit on per diems. I was the one who had to keep everything ship shape in our lab. Some of the students were walking disaster zones. Those were the ones I wouldn’t allow to operate any of the expensive equipment. I always knew which ones were going to be bad just by watching them handle a pipette.

Steve in Manhattan > Chariotoflove 06/29/2018 at 20:48

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This is like after ZIPCAR totally fucking up a rental (my sister and I using gasoline to scrub numbers off the windshield) they offered me ONE HOUR of free driving! No, refund half my rental. Fuckers.

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/30/2018 at 14:13

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Yeah, I did my own animal work until I could find people I trust and train them. We are blessed with fantastic licensed animal techs that keep the facility in top shape.

I’ve heard lots of rat people say they like them better than mice, and they are nicer when they’re used to being handled. But they cost so darn much. And you can’t easily do gene knockouts in them, though that is changing. 

Chariotoflove > Steve in Manhattan 06/30/2018 at 14:14

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Yeah, pretty much. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 06/30/2018 at 20:37

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Licensed? That’s a thing now?

Chariotoflove > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/30/2018 at 21:19

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Oh yeah. AALAS Labo ratory Animal Technologist certification ( LATg ). The two we have not only run the facility, they also help the residents with surgery experiments, keep and dispense veterinary drugs, handle receiving of animals,  and run the sentinel program .

TheRealBicycleBuck > Chariotoflove 06/30/2018 at 21:22

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Neat!