"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/19/2018 at 12:57 • Filed to: None
4
23|
"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch)
06/19/2018 at 12:57 • Filed to: None | 4
| 23 |
in 1994 the cummins 5.9 in the 3500 ram made 175 hp and 420 lbs-ft (if you opted for the manual...auto was somehow less)
in 2014 - current the ram ecodiesel 3.0L V6 makes 240 hp and 420 lbs-ft.
it wasn’t until 2002 that you could even get more than 240 hp from the Cummins, and only (again) with the manual. The auto had to be detuned.
in 17 model years they’ve gone from 245/460 to 385/930 hp/lbs-ft
the 6bt/isb was a great motor, but I think we often think on it a little TOO fondly. It was a great SLOW motor.
crowmolly
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 13:06 |
|
Knowing
exactly
when to use fuel goes a long way.
bob and john
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 13:16 |
|
funny. now that cummins makes LESS with the manual.
BigBlock440
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 13:17 |
|
the 6bt/isb was a great motor, but I think we often think on it a little TOO fondly. It was a great SLOW motor.
Great motors are rarely declared great based on their stock output. They’re often fondly remembered for their longevity, ease of upgrade, ability to make big power on stock components, and their durability while making that big power.
Future next gen S2000 owner
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 13:19 |
|
IIRC that was an ag/construction motor stuck in a truck. 20 years later and we are approaching 1000 ft lbs. Technology can be an amazing thing.
|
HammerheadFistpunch
> BigBlock440
06/19/2018 at 13:24 |
|
Like I said, it was a great motor...that was slow.
Derpwagon
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 13:24 |
|
930 lb/ft from the factory. it boggles my mind.
|
HammerheadFistpunch
> Derpwagon
06/19/2018 at 13:27 |
|
goes to show you though how torque doesn’t mean more power. more than 2x the torque, only a 1.5x the power.
nermal
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 13:32 |
|
The people that yammer on about how great 20+ year old diesels were have never driven a modern pickup.
Take your pick, a new 1/2 ton with the biggest gas engine option will run circles around 1998's best diesel. A 2018 F150 will keep pace in acceleration with a 1998 Mustang GT, a Raptor will be faster.
|
HammerheadFistpunch
> nermal
06/19/2018 at 13:33 |
|
rose colored glasses. Now I will admit there was a golden age of diesel before DPF and when the goal was economy not power. The 1st gen Dmax for example - 300 hp and 520 lbs feet is PERFECT for an economic towing engine.
Milky
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 13:40 |
|
Ram or Chevy has to hit 1000 lb-ft with their new truck. HAS TO.
|
HammerheadFistpunch
> Milky
06/19/2018 at 13:42 |
|
The rumor is that the new GM engine was designed from the get go for 500+ HP and 1075+ LBS-FT. Built in one-upmanship.
|
crowmolly
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 13:43 |
|
At some point there has to be a pinnacle of usability and that sounds like it.
1000 ft-lbs is great... unless you only really use half of it and it comes with a whole bunch of running gear and electronics that are expensive to fix.
|
HammerheadFistpunch
> crowmolly
06/19/2018 at 13:48 |
|
even ford knows it, you can’t call up all the lbs-ft in the first 3 gears. its electronically limited. fat lot of good that does if you are on a steep high climb at max load in 3rd calling for all those ponies that aren’t coming to the party.
jimz
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 13:54 |
|
OTOH, the situation is reversed today; they have to de-rate the engine when paired with the manual transmission. you need the beefy Aisin automatic to get all 930 lb-ft.
Gerry197
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 13:55 |
|
The most common full-size engine on the market right now (Ford 2.7 Ecoboost) makes 325 hp / 400 lbs-ft of torque.
It can tow 8,000 lbs, does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds (Supercrew 4x4 no less), and “can” get 26 mpg (assuming you’re trying to win a hypermiling contest).
Amazing how far we have come.
|
HammerheadFistpunch
> jimz
06/19/2018 at 14:03 |
|
exactly.
|
Derpwagon
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 14:10 |
|
Eh, if anything it says to me how specifically engineered these things are for their use. Once things are moving, you don’t need 1000 hp to keep it moving. Getting it going from a stop though, 1000 ft/lbs sure helps.
|
HammerheadFistpunch
> Derpwagon
06/19/2018 at 14:19 |
|
not...really. I mean 1000 lbs-ft at 1700 is only 22 more hp than 930 at 1700 rpm. Thats all im getting at. It’s why the cummins engines are always 2nd (3rd) fiddle to the GM and FORD engines power wise...the cummins don’t rev. great for mileage, on the long flat stretches, but slowest up the hill.
|
nermal
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 14:32 |
|
Meh. Modern, emission-controlled diesels are reliable, quiet, and don’t stink. Adding a $15 jug of DEF every month or two isn’t the end of the world.
There are two caveats - First, modern diesels need to regularly be driven for extended periods of time at high loads - aka towing a trailer on the highway. Second, you can’t let them sit and idle all day.
|
Derpwagon
> HammerheadFistpunch
06/19/2018 at 14:39 |
|
Sure, I hear you. All I’m saying is that the torque numbers we’re seeing from the factory are staggering. It’s crazy to me, from any manufacturer.
Long-Voyager
> Gerry197
06/19/2018 at 17:10 |
|
My 04 F250 Crew cab long bed 4x4 makes 325hp/560ft-lbs (stock, roughly 400/650 currently), has towed over 10k (I believe 15k rated), and can crack 25mpg on the highway (averaging 19.5 in mixed/hard driving). The new truck is only about 1 sec quicker in the quarter.
That’s from a far larger vehicle with 1/2 as many gears......How far have we come again?
|
Gerry197
> Long-Voyager
06/19/2018 at 17:35 |
|
You’re comparing a Superduty Diesel vs a mainstream 1500 sized truck with a tiny gas motor? Kinda cherry picking two different classes to make a point?
Lets compare apples shall we? A new F250 Diesel has 450 hp / 935 lbs-ft torque. It can tow over 21,000 lbs (conventional) and 34,000 lbs w/ /Gooseneck. There is no official fuel economy numbers since they aren’t required for the class, so can’t put a real number there.
But as for my example, lets compare a 2004 F150 Supercrew 4x4 with the 4.6L V8 middle engine (giving you a break here).
That truck had 231 hp / 293 lbs-ft, with a tow rating of 6200 lbs. 0-60 in 9.9 seconds and rated at 18 mpg highway.
The new 2.7L has 94 more hp / 107 ft-lbs more torque, almost 3,000lbs more towing capability, almost 4 seconds faster 0-60, while rating 8 mpg better highway.
That is serious progress in the 1500 class fullsize truck in every single way imaginable. Apples to Apples, that is huge progress in both classes.
|
Long-Voyager
> Gerry197
06/20/2018 at 07:08 |
|
More power =/= a better vehicle.
Example, that new F250 has 900+ft-lbs, but it cannot use that until after it clears the first 3 gears, making it worthless IMO. To that extent, what is the point of all this power/torque?
The other point you are missing: Old trucks get far better mileage than their “rating”. Many get better mileage real world than their modern counterparts. They’re doing it with less technology, with 3-6 less gears.