"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
06/17/2018 at 12:41 • Filed to: None
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"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa)
06/17/2018 at 12:41 • Filed to: None | 0
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Still looking for a new car. Want: Fun, good on roadtrips/luxurious, reliable. Rode in a buddy’s top-trim Honda Accord and started looking at Hondas, remembered the autos have all kinds of issues and started looking for manuals, realized manual V6 accords are unobtanium but various sorts of 6MT V6 Acuras are everywhere.
Previously considered: Chrysler 300C (first gen), Buick Roadmaster Esatate, Infiniti G35
I honestly don’t know what the TL and TSX are based on or what they really car, but they look sharp, seem to be reasonably peppy, have a glorious Honda 6 speed, and you can find TSXs all day from $3000-5000 and TLs from $4000-7500 in decent shape with “eh” miles.
What should I look for? Advice? Any ownership experiences? How worried should I be about, say, 180k miles?
interstate366, now In The Industry
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 12:55 |
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TSXs are the Accord in the rest of the world. 06-08s have a little more power than 04-05s, but you’ll find an early one much more easily. No V6 on the 1st gen TSX but the K24 is a great engine. 6-speeds are uncommon but not as rare as as on the 2nd gen. The autos on TSXs don’t have the issues of earlier 00s Hondas.
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> interstate366, now In The Industry
06/17/2018 at 12:57 |
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Ah, so if I want a V6 I have to go TL?
RacinBob
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 12:58 |
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2nd gen TSX had the V6 option.
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interstate366, now In The Industry
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 12:59 |
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Yep. Or a 2nd gen TSX, but those V6s don’t come with a manual and they’re still mostly over 10 grand.
The V6s also have a timing belt while the K24 has a timing chain.
HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 12:59 |
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The K24 is better than the V6 in many ways except for power. With the V6 in the 2nd gen TSX there was a lot of oversteer, with the K24 it’s nicely balanced and has good handling. Plus you get better gas mileage on it for your roadtrips.
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RacinBob
> RacinBob
06/17/2018 at 13:00 |
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The 2.4 engine is very reliable and 200000 miles is not uncommon. I would listen for rattles in the cam chain. They do stretch and the guides wear. I suppose a replacement runs $1500.
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HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 13:01 |
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For the TL that has the V6, its faster in a straight line but doesn’t handle as well as the TSX and gets worse gas mileage. That, and I remember hearing it costs more to upkeep or something but take that lightly because I don’t remember for sure.
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute
06/17/2018 at 13:08 |
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Hm. I wonder how much quicker the V6 is? I’d need to drive a TSX to see what I think of it. I was stuck on the V6 because of how great the 6sp V6 accord is supposed to be and wanted the “big engine”
ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 13:16 |
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I drove a 04 TL V6 with the 6MT once. It had no steering feel and it torque steered in 1st and 2nd, so I wasn’t confident to throw it around corners. It was a comfy cruiser tho and the shifter throw/action felt pretty nice.
AestheticsInMotion
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 13:19 |
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G35 coupe seems to check all your boxes. Easily the most fun of all the cars you mentioned, quite comfy, reasonably reliable, cheap.... They’re good looking too, imo
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HondoyotaE38: A Japanese and German Collab...wait a minute
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 13:24 |
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I guess in the end it comes down to personal preference. If you want a fast car for cruising, the TL is for you. If you want a quick nimble car with better handling and gas mileage then take the TSX. Both are available with a manual but the 1st Gen TSX with it is more abundant, both gens of TL with a stick are kind of rare.
Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 13:50 |
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Spring for the best one
KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 14:03 |
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Kinda off topic but Just putting it out there. Something like this is THE TL to go for. 305 Hp, rare Manual, SH-AWD, fast, comfortable, good handling and reliable but it is way beyond your budget.
But if you hate the beak then there’s no point anyway LOL
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
06/17/2018 at 14:27 |
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I’m sure those are super common and easy to find for reasonable money.
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Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 14:30 |
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I don’t know, there’s a surprising amount in my area
https://seattle.craigslist.org/search/cto?query=acura+tl+type+s&sort=date&srchType=T&hasPic=1
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
06/17/2018 at 14:51 |
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No manuals? Odd.
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Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 14:54 |
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If there are any manual Type S’ out there, they would be sold within 30 minutes.
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
06/17/2018 at 15:00 |
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Well... lame. I did find a couple manual IS300s... could be neat. If a car has less than 325hp a manual is a requirement.
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Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 15:26 |
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If you like small RWD cars, the IS300 is a great choice. Do note the backseats don’t fold down in the sedan...
Maxima Speed
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 16:37 |
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I couldn’t buy one if I wanted to. I have literally NEVER seen a legitimate Acura TSX or TL ad on craigslist. 5 times a week Acura’s get posted for 1200-1700 dollars with anywhere from 130,000 to 60,000 miles, in supposedly perfect condition. This has been the case for years on end. Im not even sure Acura Exists anymore ;P
Jkaine
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 19:29 |
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I own 1G TSX 6spd. You cant go wrong with this car. Manual is beautiful and makes up for missing 2 cylinders with the precision balance of motor and clutch. Just get one that has service records and has been tsken care of. You wont be disappointed!
Kristosh
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 20:22 |
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Significantly faster.
TL 6 speed is 0-60 in high 5's (5.8-5.9)
1/4 in mid-low 14's
TSX 6 speed is 0-60 in low 7's
1/4 in mid-low 15's
Pssing at highway/interstate speed is a big difference. TL can lug in any gear due to all the torque, or downshift and rocket off. TSX will require downshifts to move out. A minivan can be stiff competition for the TSX if they try, but it takes a lot more to best the TL off a red light.
As a result, TL is thirstier at pump, heavier and less agile. TSX is more agile and light. Maintenance is similar.
I own a 2004 TL 6 speed A spec and drive a 2005 TSX 6 speed with Hondata ECU reflash. Ask me any questions?
ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 20:22 |
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The family used to have a 03 TL-typeS, with the auto. It was a supremely good high-speed cruising (on more than one occasion driving across Eastern Colorado/Western Nebraska on very rural, small highways, everyone else in the car fell asleep as I cruised at 110-120mph and only slowing to double digits to crest hill in case the county sheriff happened to be on the other side). The lower and stiffer type S suspension that sometimes seemed a bit much in the city meant the car came alive at triple digit speeds or on a good twisty road.
For all the talk about the auto tranny’s blowing up on them, ours never had the slightest problem. We had the car from about a year old and 20k on the clock until it had around 120k. We did have the dealer flush out the tranny fluid every 40k or so (even thought it wasn’t on the maintenance schedule, but we knew better than to not change it every once in awhile), and at around 80k it had the recall done where they fitted an additional oil squirter inside the case. While this car certainly enjoyed on ramps and the occasional high-speed cruise when driven by my dad or I, it was also meticulously maintained and treated well. Most of the time it was mom’s daily driver, and there were no stop light drag races or shenanigans like that with it.
At this point, part of me would be pretty tempted to say that all the ones that were going to have transmissions prematurely blow up have probably all ready done so. Were I in the market for a car like that, I wouldn’t hesitate to buy an auto CL/TL type-s from that time period that had been treated well and came with a whole stack of service records.
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Kristosh
> Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
06/17/2018 at 20:24 |
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WAY too expensive. You’ll easily pay 2-3x what a base 6 speed is worth for a genuine type S. They go for $12-17k depending on mileage. They are marginally better than base model 6 speed and share a lot of performance parts (Brembos, LSD, etc).
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
06/17/2018 at 21:38 |
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Shush, the auto trans issues are justification to insist on a manual. Glad to hear your glowing review of them. I’m liking this cars more and more as I read about them. It is sounding like the TSX may be the safer bet for me, but I’d need to drive one of each to find out, really.
Christopher Michael
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/17/2018 at 22:08 |
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It seems like a lot of the responses don’t actually know about Acura. If it’s between the choices you listed, there’s only one choice here, the best one. Based on many factors you can find online with other owners, the 4th gen TL, with the SH-AWD option and 6 speed manual. Period.
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> Kristosh
06/17/2018 at 22:14 |
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You make the TL sound real appealing. What’s the price range you’d expect a V6 manual TL to be in?
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/738852088/overview/?aff=atempest&CMP=atempest
It looks like they’re around $5000-6000 vs $4000-5000 for the TSX... I already have a light and nimble Miata so I’m kind of wanting something with a bit more grunt.
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> Christopher Michael
06/17/2018 at 22:32 |
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That’s only 2-3 times what my budget is.
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ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/18/2018 at 00:39 |
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As a driver, I’d take a previous generation CL/TL type S. As a daily driver, a 1st gen TSX with a manual is certainly the safer bet and probably the sweet spot of fun/price/running costs.
Steve
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/18/2018 at 09:43 |
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TL Acuras of that vintage are well known to be absurdly unreliable. Aside from the transmission, they’re famous for phantom crankshaft sensor issues that will cause the car to stall, and often not start again. Had a friend with one of these on a lease a little over 10 years ago. In the shop constantly for no-start or stall issues. A/C compressors also aren’t robust on these, but with the age you’re considering compressor problems will be an expectation on most cars.
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> Steve
06/18/2018 at 10:14 |
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If an AC compressor and a crankshaft position sensor are the only major known issues that’s not too bad. My Miata has more known common failure points.
84 GM Turbo
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/18/2018 at 15:32 |
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I have an 07 TL auto. Bought last year with 145k miles for $5,400, now has 154k miles. I’ve enjoyed it everyday. I know you want a manual trans, the autos of this era had some issues if you didn’t maintain religiously but I think that was all pre 2005?
I looked at and drive at least 10 other TLs before I found “the one” all in the same price range but all in very different conditions. I can tell the leather on my seats have been replaced and look BRAND NEW with soft leather - ALL leather seats of that era are stiff and mostly now brittle and completely cracked and flakey. The leather Acura used must have been the worst quality. I looked at the forums A TON at acurazine.com, and researched everything som I knew what to look for during my inspections and test drives. That era of TL were beat to crap by the 2nd owners who thought they were speed racers, make sure you find a good one owned by an old man or lady, be patient. I was and it paid off.
Also I’d avoid any model with the satellite option, the radio is integrated into it and the touch screen controls suck hard. And the satellite looks old and outdated. Get one without satellite, dash looks cleaner and everyone uses their phone now anyway for GPS. Don’t settle, gems are still out their. I’m glad I got mine. Upgraded from a 2006 manual Civic.
Shift24
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/18/2018 at 16:13 |
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From my experience, get the TL and say no to the TSX. While the K24 is a decent engine they have horrible oil consumption issues. It is a know flaw in the piston rings. They ether get gunked up, have excessive wear, or to thin from the factory causing oil blowby. This a known issue that Honda refuses to fix, look up any accord, TSX, CRV, Civic Si forum that talks about the K24. A buddy who worked for Acura was told BY Acura to Ferrari tune the car. Basically beat the piss out of it to get the rings to seat. If they dont put rings in it. This forum talks about it and how Acura recommends adding 1 quart per 1000 to 1500 miles .
The TL is great when mated up to a Manual. The autos arent bad (no where near as bad as 1st gen) but 05 and newer is when they improved the design. I would replace the radiator if its an auto (anything over 140k). The Timing belts while annoying that they need changed 100K, are better than when the too much oil blowby gets into the cylinders of the K24 causing it to jump timing (Happened on friends 08 Accord ~130K). The TLs do have a water leaking on to ECU issues. I dont know the whole back story but its an easy fix.
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> Shift24
06/18/2018 at 16:15 |
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I didn’t realize the K24 had issues. Usually it’s referred to as a god-emperor of engines. I am thinking the TL would suit my particular situation a bit better, wanting a highway power cruiser.
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Shift24
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/19/2018 at 00:06 |
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They are good when built up and swapped with k20z3 heads. Thats when they become absolute beasts. But one of the first things done is put better rings/pistons.
But it sounds like you just want something quick you don’t want to worry about. So like Andrew Collins and his 200k commuter, I would get a TL. Also to throw it into the mix, look for a manual accord V6 coupe. Probably only find 03 to 07 which aren’t the best lookers but most are decked out with options
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Kristosh
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/19/2018 at 08:01 |
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I’m VERY fond of the TL. It also comes with every premium feature standard (the only option is navigation). The TL comes with premium 225W stereo (Elliot Scheiner dev’d), Heated side mirrors, auto-dimming rear view mirror, Brembo brakes, Limited Slip diff, and a big one for me : Rear A/C Vents. That’s huge for my toddler during the summer!
TSX requires the ‘Tech package’ to get many of those features which sell for more on the used market.
I paid $4,300 for my 2004 6 speed with 149,xxx miles but I did have to replace the clutch for $900 5,000 miles later. Otherwise it’s been a treat. I have a permanent search on CL for manual TL’s and it’s definitely a waiting game but patience is the virtue to exercise when looking.
TSX is a fantastic car as well though, you really can’t go wrong with either but if you want the fast brute highway comfort king that can still blast some MPH’s on the quick. TL is your car. I actually manage 22mpg avg since I’ve owned it. 55-65 is the sweet spot, right at/just over 30mpg if you can cruise at those speeds.
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> Kristosh
06/19/2018 at 08:42 |
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I think I’m convinced on the TL
“I’m VERY fond of the TL. It also comes with every premium feature standard (the only option is navigation). The TL comes with premium 225W stereo (Elliot Scheiner dev’d), Heated side mirrors, auto-dimming rear view mirror, Brembo brakes, Limited Slip diff, and a big one for me : Rear A/C Vents. That’s huge for my toddler during the summer!”
This gave me a boner. Reviews of the car all seem to spend a wild amount of time trying to describe how good the stereo is, and as a big stereo nut that makes me happy.
280-ish horsepower 6 speed luxury car with an LSD sounds like an absolute blast on the highway.
How many miles are on yours now?
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Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
> Shift24
06/19/2018 at 08:47 |
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I originally started looking for V6 accords but they’re harder to find with lots of options and end up being more expensive than the equivalent TL, which is also way easier to find with a manual.
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Shift24
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/19/2018 at 09:26 |
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Hun thats surprising though possible. I see decent number pop up but Cbus may not be the best representation because its Honda’s Backyard.
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Kristosh
> Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To
06/19/2018 at 12:12 |
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167xxx on it as of now! We had my wife’s 1999 Acura TL (Previous Gen body) from 145xx - 237xxx and sold it off to get her the 2007 MDX.
The J series engines (V6) in Honda/Acura have been largely unchanged for about 20 years and are as bulletproof as it can get. Oil changes and timing belts - that’s it.
I know people say they aren’t as ‘nimble’ as the TSX and it’s true. But they still handle WAYYYY better than just about any other FWD sedan out there. I’ve driven a fair amount of turd sedans (GM/Chevy) the TL is closer to a sport sedan than it is a family sedan. I had a 2003 RSX prior to the TL and that sucker was a fly-weight ,flickable, nimble car. And the TL isn’t far behind it on the street.
The audio is good enough that I feel comfortable leaving it 100% stock and enjoying it without upgrading.
someoneatacura
> Steve
07/04/2018 at 13:33 |
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The stall issue on the older TL/CL is from heat soak during winter with winter gas . Haven’t seen crank sensor issues personally.