Machine Shop Etiquette

"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword) 06/04/2018 at 12:02 • Filed to: Advice

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So I will be taking my engine to my local “recommended” machine shop. Online reviews are good, but every time I call I get the feeling like they are massively busy and want me to shut up. It’s probably because they can tell I’m a dumb kid.

My engine already has the heads and intake off, and I will be showing up with a box of new parts. Should I hand tighten everything back together or does it not matter? I don’t want to be “that” customer if I can help it. I need this done right and with care, and I know how people are. I don’t want to make anyone’s job more difficult than it absolutely has to be.

Also, I still have a few parts to order, that I am wondering if I should do now or wait until they take a look. parts such as: a couple of pushrods, Harmonic balancer, flex plate, lifters, valvesprings

Obviously I won’t order rings or bearings until they do the actual machine work.

I know good customer service means that I shouldn’t have to worry but we all know the way the world works. What can I do to avoid these problems before they ever even arise?

Definitely not this

crowmolly > My bird IS the word 06/04/2018 at 12:18

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It’s probably because they can tell I’m a dumb kid.

Fuck that. You’re a paying customer and the fact that you are even trying to be courteous says something.

I wouldn’t worry too much about how you deliver it. Just make sure it’s organized and labeled as to what’s yours.

As far as ordering parts, ask them. Sometimes shops have parts and brands that they like and trust. If they inspect the old stuff you may not have to order new.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > My bird IS the word 06/04/2018 at 12:20

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If they cannot treat you with respect, then why give them your business? You might stop in at the machine shop in person and size them up one more time if you really are interested, but there are many machine shops out there. If they want to act like they are doing you a favor by taking your money...

My bird IS the word > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/04/2018 at 12:23

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Except it’s pittsburgh, so my choices are pretty limited actually. Not really a “car” town. The other good place I wanted to take mine quoted me 3 grand because they don’t reuse parts, and at that point I might as well just buy a crate engine.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > My bird IS the word 06/04/2018 at 12:42

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If they want $3 grand, what’s this other route going to cost?

Sovande > My bird IS the word 06/04/2018 at 12:44

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This is actually the reason I hate taking my El Camino to the shop. The one guy I have found near me who can do the work really doesn’t seem interested. The person who works the counter seems really over worked and there is always, always something lost in the translation from what I tell the man in front to what the man doing the work actually hears. It’s a shame they won’t take the time to actually speak to you.

I agree with the suggestion to talk to them at the shop. If they won’t take the time, or treat you like anything other than a paying customer I would find someone else to do the work.

My bird IS the word > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/04/2018 at 12:58

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got quoted 1500 in labor, + parts which I have.

punkgoose17 > My bird IS the word 06/04/2018 at 13:05

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I recommend The Race Place in Wampum, PA Bret is a really nice guy, he helped us out with our SAE Baja when I was in college. He builds race cars and used to race himself so he will do a great job.

punkgoose17 > punkgoose17 06/04/2018 at 13:07

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Here is a Lotus Elan he was working on in March of 2012

My bird IS the word > punkgoose17 06/04/2018 at 13:15

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Looks like a great place, Not unreasonably far away but it looks like he does more racecar stuff, There is a place like this near pittsburgh but they basically told me they didn’t want to reuse my pistons and stuff. I’ll give him a call, I am just trying to squeak past on a budget and these types of places usually don’t like that.

Die-Trying > My bird IS the word 06/04/2018 at 15:19

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its hard to buy parts until you know what you need.... on some stuff, you can get by without having to do any cutting, and reuse old stuff. you have to really check the parts closely to be sure. you have to pay attention when you are dealing with shops, as to what your engine NEEDS, and if they are just trying to sell work. some shops look real hard to push work that you just dont need. you have to be able to look and tell the difference.

most of the time for me, it is a matter of what i plan to do with an engine, as to how much i intend to spend....... for example if i have an engine that has some water spots on the cylinder walls, they look bad, but if they are just spots, that can be honed down to nearly nothing, i wont get the block cut, ill just hone it, even if it smokes slightly.(depends on how severe the spots ar of course) but most shops will be adamant that it MUST be cut. they are kind of particular about the reputation that the work that leaves their shop gets, for some reason. and will push the job as something that needs to get done.....

if it as engine that i want to keep forever, i just might cut it, because i plan to keep it forever. if it is just an engine that i am going to put in a junker to run hard and know i will be alright to sell, then i dont need to spend a lot on it..... it just needs to be good enough.

some bits though, like cam bearings, are parts that are cheap enough. and the ones in the engine might still have life left in them. but they are a part that you say “as long as i have the engine this far apart, might as well change them”, because they are that hard to get to at any other time. its just another job that shops push, where the cost is more the labor to do it......

but there is work that needs to be done ,that shops will find for you, and its good to be able to recognize when your parts need to have money spent on work you werent planning on.

sometimes its cheaper to find another part(same but different)from another car, and get that one, than it is to spend money on getting parts entirely refurbished. and sometimes you can get brand new replacements for what it costs to get work done. its a matter of shopping around and knowing a value.......

machine work adds up quick, no two ways about it........ but it is the most important money you will spend.....

My bird IS the word > Die-Trying 06/04/2018 at 16:14

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Well I mean, it was a good running engine to start with. most of the “rebuilding” is in the gaskets and bearings, I don’t anticipate too much trouble. From my own inspection, there is some pitting on the pushrods (which I will replace) but this is relatively speaking overbuilt for the amount of power it’s making. after seeing the sludge, I really want the block deep cleaned and painted though.

The engine isn’t a good performance engine. I am not even sure they make colder plugs for it. The body it’s going into is basically worthless. I do, however, plan on restoring the whole car. at this point, I don’t really want to hotrod it since I can and should get another car for that. So realistically? I just want an engine that I don’t have to ever worry about again. No tuning, no fuckery. I just want to drive the car again so I can determine if I want to sell it, because without the car running and driving I will lose my shirt on this project. with it running I can salvage it.

My bird IS the word > punkgoose17 06/04/2018 at 19:50

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He says that he doesn’t do engine work personally, farms it out to high end shops

punkgoose17 > My bird IS the word 06/04/2018 at 21:40

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Sorry I could not be more helpful.

My bird IS the word > punkgoose17 06/05/2018 at 12:18

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It’s NP. This job was bound to suck just like every job on this car.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 06/07/2018 at 16:09

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Hey Stranger. I will eventually be doing an engine of my own and my understanding is the labor on that is in the $1,500 range. I have a lot of skills and may try to tackle it myself. I’d like to...

But I have lots of parts and I hope to get Rusty road worthy over the summer. I’ll never take it more than thirty miles from home, but road worthy.

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/07/2018 at 18:16

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yeah, like i said, it all depends on what all you are going to need to have done to it. depending how solid of shape an engine is in, sometimes you can get away without needing to spend much at all.

i usually spend for a simple valve job, on heads that i know dont need serious work.(seats or guides put in) on blocks, i usually get fresh cam bearings installed. i do my own freeze plugs, they are easy enough. depending on what the cylinder wall looks like, and if it has any kind of major ridge at the top of the cylinder, i might have the block cut, but it would have to have some major scoring, or massive water spots(i am cheap). and if it does need to get cut you have to take it as far as it takes to clean up the surface. most of the time i can cut the cylinder ridge myself. and when it comes to the crank, you dont want any scarring or water spots. just cut it and dont look back. its best to keep them standard, as they have a hard cap, that is tougher, and more durable than it will be after it is cut......

those are the major important ones......

you can go crazy on other stuff, and spend money quick, that will add up FAST..... and they are things that are not necessarily needed by your engine, but dont hurt to do anyways. but it gets spendy quick........ things like align honing, block squaring, decking the head surfaces, balancing, blueprint assembly, offset grinding, resizing caps, mains or rods, sleeving cylinders........ all things that could use getting done, but not really worth the expense most of the time if it doesnt need it......

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Die-Trying 06/07/2018 at 18:22

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I’ve got an Old Guy advising me who is as expert as they come and also not into wasting any money and he gives me both barrels when he thinks something is not worth spending on. He has prescribed a Comp Cams 268H cam, 307 pistons (which are crowned and raise compression by around 0.8:1), and lifters and such. I’m going to run a 292 exhaust manifold with a bigger diameter exhaust pipe — think 50s moving van exhaust note — and a 350 CFM Holley two-barrel (7448) carburetor on an Offenhauser intake manifold that marries to the exhaust manifold for intake manifold heat purposes. And a T-5 five speed to replace the three-on-the-three. I told him I want to do it myself and he’s worried I’ll make a costly mistake, though if he lived closer, he’d readily come look over my shoulder. I’m going to try and get him to watch me via Skype.

Die-Trying > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/07/2018 at 18:36

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heh, no replacement for old guy supervision......