Why do auto comparisons by auto journalists not use the same tire on all of the vehicles??

"Wrong Wheel Drive (41%)" (rduncan5678) 05/31/2018 at 11:51 • Filed to: None

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I love reading comparisons (or watching the videos) that different automotive publications put together. Some of my favorite are from Everyday Driver but I also enjoy the scale of the Motortrend ones. Of course Jalopnik has done these as well. Every time, I look through a spec comparison sheet at some point and observe that each car has a completely different tire! While they may have “comparable” tires, I have found that aside from driver skill, the choice of tire is the most important factor for a car. Sure in this case, someone like Randy Pobst at the wheel as the test driver it might not REALLY matter. But I just find it interesting that they compare cars in terms of very specific metrics, even though tires alone can be good for a few seconds around a track easily.

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Might as well put all of the cars on the same set of street tires in the car’s appropriate size. I think it’s silly to even consider the “OEM tire” as part of a vehicle’s actual performance. Especially since metrics like tire treadware are not actually regulated and tire technology has advanced to crazy levels. Many of the subjective points in the reviews would end up about the same but it would just make me so much more sure of the lap time differences.

Also,extremely cool that the Type R won hand-over-fist in this comparison. I have loved all of the glowing reviews and even with its ludicrous “gundam styling” I actually kind of love it. I have only seen one in person so far and it was even better than the photos for sure. I’d love to drive one some day. The new Civics are way too large for my taste but so is just about every new car aside from the ND Miata or 86 twins.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 11:54

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because they want to give readers the most accurate comparison of the cars they could go out and buy right now off a dealer lot, not what it would be after changing tires. personally i think it leads to more accurate reviews

facw > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 11:57

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The OEM tire is what you get when you buy the car. For most people it will be on there for year (leasers may never change them). It seems incredibly weird to me to review a product after changing out pieces. If the manufacturer is shipping the car with products that compromise its performance, that’s their fault, and it deserves to be downgraded. It might be interesting to know that that is the case, but most buyers will want to know about what they are taking out of the showroom as opposed to what they might have if they make modifications for performance.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 05/31/2018 at 12:01

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It makes sense for an individual review of a car. Like to just review the merits of that particular car. The problem is that a REALLY good tire can hide a lot of the issues with a car and almost cheat the car to being better than it is. So when comparing the car to others from other manufacturers, it becomes “who can put the tire that cheats the best on the car”. Of course, those particular tires in this comparison really are not THAT different but it is just offputting to me. I don’t think I am anywhere near the “average consumer” anyways so my point is probably moot.

TahoeSTi > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:03

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How did the STi only run a 14.0 in the 1/4 mile? Almost every other STi tested has either run 13.0 - 13.2. Can auto journalists not drive manual transmissions any more?

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:06

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Because if that’s the tire the manufacturer ships it with, that’s how they want to test it. As it comes off the lot, just how you would buy it.

IMO they should do both

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > facw 05/31/2018 at 12:06

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My problem with that is we are talking about performance cars here. People are going to be tuning them and modding them to kingdom come. Warranty voiding to the max! But just changing a tire is not exactly a real mod. I would hope these cars do not come with all seasons but I also imagine they do not have real track tires on them either. I imagine I might be the odd person though for thinking that way.

HammerheadFistpunch > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:07

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Because the OE’s chose a tire carefully, and in some cases have special compounds MADE for the car. It would be silly NOT to compare them on OE tires. Its an engineering component to a degree since the suspension tuning is done around a tire choice.

Spanfeller is a twat > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:09

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Consumers are lazy and won’t change tyres, in more expensive cars (say track special versions like the GT3) then having the same tyres would be relevant because those consumers could bother changing their tyres, but even at an M4 vs c63 level i cannot imagine they would

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:09

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That’s how they’re rolled off the production line and subsequently sold to customers.

This is they way the manufacturers intended each car to be upon delivery to customers.

Party-vi > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:10

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I think you overestimate how many people take their $30K - $50K new toy and start bolting stuff onto them, especially when you consider a lot of these buys were just to get a car reserved and then re-sell it at a jacked up price.

Berang > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:10

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I’ve seen the type R at autocross and was impressed.

As for tires, it makes sense to test with what the car is delivered with, afterall that’s what the buyer is going to get.

Gerry197 > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:12

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They still have to test them how they come, not how you could make them. Tires are expensive (especially on a performance car), most people don’t change them on a new car until they need to be replaced, at that point their lease is up anyways.

Some people do mod them, but that’s more rare then you think. Majority of people will drive their new performance car “as is” for however long they have it.

After it hits the used car market years later and “enthusiast” can actually afford them used, then modding is more common, especially out of warranty.

Even when everyone was testing the 3 “Holy Trinity” hypercars (LaFerrari, Porsche 918 and McLaren P1). They tested them with the tires they came with, not a control tire. If they do that with those cars, what do you expect them to do with a Subaru WRX or Toyota F86?

dogisbadob > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:12

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I want to see them on 15-inch tires like 195/60-15

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > TahoeSTi 05/31/2018 at 12:12

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Maybe it got heavier? I have no idea why Subaru is still using basically the same engine they did over a decade ago!! Considering my ‘06 is lighter, it would probably do better than the new one lol. Its like comparing a lumbering dinsosaur in any modern comparison. I sure hope they use all of that crosstrek money to make a really new STi.

My bird IS the word > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:14

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If tire selection is really the only deciding factor at this point, then why do the handling comparisons really matter?

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Party-vi 05/31/2018 at 12:15

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Oh certainly. I could never fathom paying that much for a car so its a matter of perspective. And replacing tires is the first thing I am going to do on ANY car that I buy. It’s why I hate buying cars with newish tires, since people always make terrible choices that I don’t agree with. Damn people and their all seasons lol.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > My bird IS the word 05/31/2018 at 12:17

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My point is that I have no way of knowing if it is the only deciding factor. I like to believe that it isnt but in the name of science, I like the apples to apples comparison. Tires are not some “integral part” of the car. Sure most people won’t change them and I get that, but its just a major factor for the track comparison stuff. Obviously the street comparison and other stuff like interior, power, and such will not matter.

404 - User No Longer Available > Party-vi 05/31/2018 at 12:18

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And for those who are actually driving them... I think it’d be hardknocked to find one of those cars that aren’t being leased.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Spanfeller is a twat 05/31/2018 at 12:19

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As far as I am concerned, these already are ludicrously expensive cars lol.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 05/31/2018 at 12:20

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That would certainly be interesting. It would showcase how much the tires are “cheating” lol

My bird IS the word > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:20

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Maybe if there were more racing series with cars like this. I mean, people with cars like this drive for fun, or to improve their own times, not necessarily to beat other people. You aren’t wrong, but what I am saying is my mindset is in a different place.

404 - User No Longer Available > HammerheadFistpunch 05/31/2018 at 12:21

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But then, I wonder why the articles don’t point that out when they list out the tire model, maybe with an asterisk or something.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > dogisbadob 05/31/2018 at 12:22

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I think all of these have ~13.5 inch brake rotors. There might be some clearance issues haha.

HammerheadFistpunch > 404 - User No Longer Available 05/31/2018 at 12:25

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Some do, just depends on what mood they’re in.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > My bird IS the word 05/31/2018 at 12:28

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I suppose I wonder how many people actually track these cars anyways. It just seemed like a major point of the article was to compare lap times. Especially since the lap times directly corellated to the ranking of the vehicles. And the difference between fastest and slowest was about 2 seconds. Streets of Willow is a very tight/technical course so tires could easily skew that gap.

Future next gen S2000 owner > TahoeSTi 05/31/2018 at 12:28

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It could be RPM limited. For a couple years the WRX was faster to 60 because you could launch it at any RPM while the STi would only go to a certain RPM when stopped.

HammerheadFistpunch > Future next gen S2000 owner 05/31/2018 at 12:31

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plus the sti’s 6 speed require more shifts than the WRX 5

My bird IS the word > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:33

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They definitely could. I’ve been trying to get away from the autojournalist circle jerk and focus on smiles per gallon. For me that would be a tough one, as I like both the focus and the civic but hate the seats in both.

Ash78, voting early and often > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:35

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I see it as “fairly penalizing” the manufacturer for their OE tire choice. If Honda wants to eke out an extra 1mpg on 700 compound tires, then great — they’ll gain one piece of marketing at the expense of another.

I see it as almost identical to, say, the aggressiveness of DCT shifter settings. The manufacturer chooses their balance.

On the plus side, tires are easily changed. But ideally, like others have said, we would see everything in a certain class be tested with the same tires.

nermal > TahoeSTi 05/31/2018 at 12:37

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Probably an issue with the launches. The fastest way to launch these is to floor the accelerator and dump the clutch while the engine is bouncing off the rev limiter. As you can imagine, this isn’t very good for the car.

Perhaps they had one that other journalists had hammered on too much already?

Tekamul > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:43

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That is mostly untrue. Most of the modifying falls to the 2nd owner, not the first, unless the first has enough money to risk resale value going to 0. The OEM tires are the appropriate choice for these comparisons.

jimz > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:47

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what would be the point? it’s an additional expense for the publications (and it would be a BIG expense in a comparo of performance cars) and it’s still only telling you how a car handles on the tires they chose. If I- as a potential buyer- don’t want the OEM tires or the tires the reviewer chose, I have no additional useful information.

gettingoldercarguy > Spanfeller is a twat 05/31/2018 at 12:52

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That’s not my experience, but ymmv. Most enthusiasts will change tires based on their needs.

WRXforScience > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:53

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We need to see some “special editions” equipped with Bridgestone RE71r’s, they say 200tw on the side.

I know on my BRZ there is about a 2s a lap difference from actual 200tw tires to the RE71r’s and probably about 4s difference from the OEM Primacy tires my BRZ came with.

Tires are the single biggest performance part on the car, to pick up 4s any other way I’d have to add a turbo or supercharger.

gettingoldercarguy > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 12:53

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You’ll love the comparisons in grassroots Motorsports then. They do just this.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > Tekamul 05/31/2018 at 13:19

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I think it may just be the way that I look at the reviews. I would probably never buy a new car anyways. Depreciation makes me want to go used regardless of how much money I have. So to me, I enjoy these reviews from a purely scientific purpose of what I might want to buy as a second or third owner down the line.

This comparo did a good job of equally comparing the cars anyways, and the real point was not about lap times I believe. It was supposed to be “which is more fun” and that means tires dont really matter.

TahoeSTi > HammerheadFistpunch 05/31/2018 at 13:22

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Yeah but other STis had the 6speed and were running 13.0 in 2006....and 06 has shorter gears.

TahoeSTi > Future next gen S2000 owner 05/31/2018 at 13:22

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Must be a 2008+ thing, never had that issue with my 06.

TahoeSTi > nermal 05/31/2018 at 13:23

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I could believe it’s a beat clutch and now it slips.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > jimz 05/31/2018 at 13:26

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For reviewing a car on its own, I definitely want the OEM tire to be used. That I 100% agree with. Its only for the comparisons that I think it makes sense to provide some parity on something like tires. But, I also see the point about the expense. It definitely would not be insignificant and yet would not really make any impact on the results. It is not a “science experiment” and so much of it is subjective anyways, so it makes sense to just do things the way they do.

HammerheadFistpunch > TahoeSTi 05/31/2018 at 13:26

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just relating why some MY wrx had better 0-60

TahoeSTi > HammerheadFistpunch 05/31/2018 at 13:27

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Yeah in the STi you do have to shift to 3rd to hit 60, but even back in 2006 they were testing at 4.5 to 60.

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > dogisbadob 05/31/2018 at 13:40

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just in case you haven’t seen this before (but I’d bet you probably have):

dogisbadob > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 05/31/2018 at 13:41

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yup, I saw it before, still fun to watch

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 13:42

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Starting to see quite a few Civic Type-Rs in my area and they’re growing on me, even the styling. I just don’t know if I’d get rid of the S2k for one though ...

I mentioned this elsewhere but to me it’s like Honda’s take on the Evo/STI class of cars - turbo 2L, big wing, and practicality.

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 05/31/2018 at 13:49

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Those arent exactly “comparable cars” lol. I wouldnt get rid of my Miata for a type R either. Just completely different experiences. But I could easily see it replacing my STi some day, depending on how I feel it drives. Eventually my Subaru will be a maintenance headache anyways.

Tekamul > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 14:11

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Right, I think the issue there is you are not the target audience. The comparos are for new car shoppers. They’re going to read the article, maybe go kick some tires at the dealer lot, make their choice, and live with OEM choices for 5-7 years

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) 05/31/2018 at 16:15

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I know it’s a weird connection to make, but look at a 3rd gen STI hatchback and the CTR side by side and tell me there isn’t some resemblance.

Anyway, as long as we both appreciate the CTR that makes us part of a pretty small club ...

Wrong Wheel Drive (41%) > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 05/31/2018 at 16:28

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I prefer the older CTR that we never got and this is not really anything like those ones. But given current safety standards and all of that crap, its pretty damn cool. My only concern is that it’s a car that only makes it through a few model years and then goes away. Making it unobtainum in the used market or even worse, it will skyrocket in value because of that.