Need some edumucation in RVs

"PartyPooper2012" (PartyPooper2012) 05/29/2018 at 08:09 • Filed to: None

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Wife and I took our dogs with us this time to go see a friend in another state. While we were driving, we saw some RVs on the road. Since we had to stay in a hotel with dogs we started to kick around the idea of renting an RV. She quickly googled the price and it said something like 300 a night. That’s a bit pricey and I think if the duration was a bit longer, it would have came out cheaper.

Nevertheless, we started thinking about buying one. Quickly checked craigslist and saw some crazy disparity. You can get a tour bus sized RV for like 70k or you can get Walter White/Jesse Pinkman RV for 800 dollars.

Some RVs had something like 18,000 miles on them and others had well into 150k miles. I get it. You may not go anywhere and just camp in your back yard... wear out the insides faster than the engine... or you can do both - drive from alaska to argentina and wear out engine and insides.

How do you put a value on an RV?

Once you park your RV in your driveway, how do you empty out the grey/black water? Bucket? Pump? Where do you put the murky liquids?

What happens to mattresses inside RV when you don’t use it for say a year or few. Won’t they get moldy/musty/nasty?

How does it work with licensing? Don’t you need some sort of extra endorsement before someone gives you keys to a bus and says good luck?

OPPOsaurus WRX > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 08:28

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I looked into taking one out for a vacation a while back it found it to be crazy expensive per mile.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 08:32

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Because of the wide range of styles and use habits RV prices will be all over the place. You just need to find what you like and look at what valuable and determine if it’s worth it to you.

Most campgrounds have a grey/black water dumping/washout station where you get rid of your nastiness before leaving.

As long as you don’t have any leaks and you open it up a few times a year it shouldn’t be an issue.

Nope, you buy a bus you get to drive it here in ‘Merica™. No extra endorsements for anything unless you drive for commercial reasons.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 08:39

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in america because its a private vehicle theres no additional licensing needed

PartyPooper2012 > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 05/29/2018 at 08:43

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That’s insane. The driving a bus part. I mean... I drove a moving truck. Wasn’t hard or anything... but this is a house on top of a bus frame. I’m sure it’s not that hard, but mistakes won’t be easily forgiven. Like taking a turn into a super narrow street with cars half parked on sidewalk because road is tight... INSANE

PartyPooper2012 > OPPOsaurus WRX 05/29/2018 at 08:44

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Yeah. Wife said she wants to go from Connecticut to North Dakota. I said... can you imagine just gas bill alone?

PartyPooper2012 > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 05/29/2018 at 08:45

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I guess... but considering one never gets practice driving a bus (including on the road test for your driver’s license) what are the chances one crashes it into something...

My wife was afraid of parallel parking a Suburban.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 08:46

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It is nuts and there absolutely should be a weight limit to drivers licenses, but this America and I doubt it’ll change anytime soon if ever

Thomas Donohue > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 05/29/2018 at 08:46

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Most states require an endorsement for anything over 26,000 pounds. Most RV’s come in under that...only the ‘truck’ style Class C’s are that heavy and are usually towing something else really heavy.

OPPOsaurus WRX > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 08:47

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this was a long time ago that I was looking into this so I dont really remember the details, but I think it would have been cheaper to fly and rent a car. I’m sure I would miss alot of cool stuff by not driving, but I also skipped over many many miles of blank highway.

PartyPooper2012 > OPPOsaurus WRX 05/29/2018 at 08:50

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We were in Wyoming last summer. Now that’s a lot of blank highway miles. We weren’t in an RV, but still. Our big thing is that we need a place to stay with our dogs.. 60lbs ea. Most hotels have no pet policy or small pet policy.

Flying of course is an option but it would be much cooler to do this once or twice in a life time.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Thomas Donohue 05/29/2018 at 08:59

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I didn’t know that, I found this handy guide to when and where you need it. Apparently here in Wisconsin there is no requirement as long as you are less than 45' long.

random001 > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 09:03

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My outlaws have a bus style. 30 ft, I think, with three slides. We’ve used it a couple times, it’s nice. But yeah, the gas mileage is basically a lolsob

OPPOsaurus WRX > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 09:07

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you could always camp. A lot of places have showers, bathrooms, and inground pools. not to mention that camping would be cheap and has its own special experience.

PartyPooper2012 > OPPOsaurus WRX 05/29/2018 at 09:09

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I have done camping in the past (when I was not married) Now it isn’t an option.

OPPOsaurus WRX > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 09:12

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i know what you mean....

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 09:35

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the chances are very high, especially since they are mostely driven by the retirement crowd. but im just stating the fact that you dont need any additional licensing to drive a class A RV as long as you are doing so for private reasons. if you were doing it for commercial reasons like the drivers who drive indycar and nascar drivers motorhomes from track to track youd need a CDL

PartyPooper2012 > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 05/29/2018 at 09:46

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Thanks for the info. I will consider it in my further searches, but I don’t think buying an RV is a good idea unless you can take it out monthly and put it to good use.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 09:53

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absolutely, my grandparents have always had Class A Motorhomes so i grew up around them but theyd only really use it once or twice a year. i never understood the point of keeping it around only for 1 or 2 trips but it is what it is

nermal > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 10:00

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I have one of the “toy hauler” trailers that I use to haul my motorcycle. Can speak to the trailer types, not to the motorhome types, but most of the general stuff works the same.

Value - People that work in sales in the RV business are those that were rejected from shady used car lots, cell phone stores, the DMV, and the Post Office. Seriously, they suck. They make a living by taking advantage of old people that are spending their grandkid’s inheritance. So, screw ‘em. Go to a big RV show in your area, find a model you want, and blow off any sales people there. When you’re ready to buy, email dealers within 500 miles of you negotiating on price. You should be able to get 30-40% off MSRP on a new unit. You can look up used values on www.nadaguides.com. Pick whatever the lowest $$$ figure is for the model you’re looking at with zero options, and that’s your target price.

Service - You’re basically screwed here. RVs aren’t like cars, where any dealer that sells your brand will do warranty work. If you didn’t buy it at a specific dealer, they will try to avoid doing warranty work. Hope you’re handy!

Poo Tanks - RVs have 3 tanks, one for clean water, one for shower / sink water, and one for poo. You can get enzyme pouches from Amazon that help to digest your poo and TP while it’s in the tank. Drop one in before every trip. If you’re staying at a campground, most will have a dump station. At the end of the trip, you dump your tanks. You’ll need a clean water hose, water filter, sewer hose, and black tank flush hose. Hook up the sewer hose, dump the poo tank first, then hook up the flush hose to further clean the poo tank. Dump the shower tank last, as the soapy water will clean out the poo from the sewer hose. Use a different hose for clean water, and get a filter too. Also, keep some disposable gloves to wear so you don’t accidentally get any poo water on your hands.

Licensing - As long as you’re under 26k lbs GVWR, you don’t need an additional license. Add up your truck & trailer if going separate.

Must / Mold / Etc - Use it regularly, and clean it before you put it away.

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 10:02

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My parents have a RV built on a Ford truck chassis(F-350?). It still feels big. It gets around 10-11mpg. It wasn’t too expensive, I think around $15,000; it was lightly used and 2-3 people can stay in it comfortably. I actually think they hit the sweet spot of livability, gas mileage, and maintenance. They have been staying in the south for a month over the past few years and it saves them a little over a house rental/flight/car rental but mostly it’s about the freedom and flexibility for planning trips. They also aren’t big campers but enjoy the outdoors. Win-win.

PartyPooper2012 > nermal 05/29/2018 at 10:14

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Yeah. Thanks for the info. I was thinking more... craigslist RVs. I don’t want to buy new if I am only going to use it once a year or less.

The waters info is helpful, but what happens if dump at the site is full or for whatever reason (forgetfulness) you come home with a tank full of poo. How do you empty it?

Many chimed in on needing extra endorsement only if it’s over 26,000 lbs. I am not planning on driving anything that big. It’s just wife and I with two dogs. maybe a tie die t-shirt hitchhiker - KIDDING.

shop-teacher > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 10:14

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RVs in general are built like hot garbage. They deteriorate rapidly, even when they are cared for. When they aren’t well cared for, they disintegrate at ludicrous speed. Condition is everything, and pay special attention to joints and especially the roof. Get underneath it and poke the floor with a screwdriver in several places. Pay special attention to the floor under the water heater. I had a camper that was 15 years old, and really well taken care of. But the floor was still rotting out because it was interior grade oriented strand board covered in some sort of Nylon fabric. Decided to sell it for a small loss a little over a year later. I’m quite certain if I had kept it for 4-5 more years, I would have had to cut it up and throw it in a dumpster.

PartyPooper2012 > Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle 05/29/2018 at 10:16

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I’ve often wondered about RVs built inside a pickup’s bed. There can’t be a bathroom there... just bed, right?

so if that’s the case, where do you.... umm... go?

PartyPooper2012 > shop-teacher 05/29/2018 at 10:27

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Thanks. It seems like best thing to do would be to rent one.

If i bought one, i wouldn’t use it as often as i would like. It would require much more maintenance than a regular car because it would sit and rot.

I think all these comments answered what I suspected all along... don’t get involved.

Jayhawk Jake > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 10:33

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You stay at a campground with toilets

Jason Spears > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 11:24

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My rule of thumb when considering any vehicle purchase: spend some time with Steve Lehto first.

https://soundcloud.com/search?q=steve%20lehto%20buy%20an%20rv

PartyPooper2012 > Jason Spears 05/29/2018 at 11:30

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Steve and I go way back... if you read my comments to his articles, they go back for few years.

nermal > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 11:37

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Generally you won’t find a dump station that is overflowing - They just go right into the regular sewer system. You may have to wait in line at a busy time, however.

The poo tank isn’t going to explode if you don’t dump it immediately. I’ve let mine go a month between trips with zero issues. You can see a list of public sites @ www.sanidumps.com. Some places you have to pay, others are no charge. I drive through WV a lot and they have free dump stations at certain rest areas on the interstates.

Mercedes Streeter > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 12:19

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I wouldn’t say “don’t get involved”, more that know that RVs are almost always a losing proposition. They lose value faster than a new luxury car and are held together with worse quality materials than most items found in a dollar store. Unless you buy new, there will always be something or some things broken at all times during your ownership. And if you buy new, eventually something will break...

Travel trailers are the worst of the bunch. 95% of the time, they’re built to be the largest things they can be while fitting into the tow ratings of an Expedition or non-HD pickup truck and be “affordable” to an upper-middle class family. That means every conceivable corner is cut to drop weight and cost.

My advice here is either to get one with a fluted metal body:

Or one with a plastic and or metal nose:

Reason being is that trailers with a nose and/or walls made of luan often eventually look like this regardless of how well you care for them:

Delamination is basically a RV’s death sentence, and the worst part of it is that even if you do all of your preventative maintenance, it can still happen because luan is a terrible choice for something that has to survive being outdoors and moving at highway speed.

Coaches and other truck or bus-based RVs tend to last the longest. The best of the best of those can basically last forever. These Foretravel Unihomes are a good example of this. I believe most of these things are still on the roads in decent condition.

However, the best of the best will cost you a fortune and they hold their value because of that insanely good build quality.

My advice? Unless you want a classy rolling hotel room, get something cheap that you won’t feel hurt over if it falls apart 5 years from now. Or, get something known for good reliability, which will sometimes mean it’ll cost a little more.

7:07 > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 12:29

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We rented a 43' diesel pusher for a road trip from Utah into Alberta, Canada last Summer. Put 4 or 5 thousand miles on it and loved almost every minute of it. We chose the RV route over flying/hotels/rental because of how much time we would spend driving. We have four kids, all under 10, and it was the best thing ever to have a bathroom, kitchen, and TV while rolling down the road.

Once fuel cost was added in it ended up being more expensive than a rental car and two hotel rooms per night, but the experience was well worth the extra money. So many good memories.

I spent a lot of time on educating myself on youtube in regards to all the different systems you have to maintain in a full-size RV, but mostly tips on how to drive one without killing everyone. That education payed off in spades.

All that being said, if we repeated the trip we’d probably suck it up and just fly there so we could spend more time in the mountains and less time driving through Idaho and Montana (and Southern Alberta, to a point.)

Here’s a picture of Kicking Horse Campground in Yoho National Park in BC. It’s a first-come-first-serve site and we got there early and got the best spot in the park. This is the view I saw just outside the door. Our rig is the one on the right side of the picture:

If you have any questions about the rental process or anything like that, ask away!

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 13:05

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Generally speaking, RVs are a hot mess. Well, RVs that you can I could actually buy are a hot mess. There’s a ton of shortcuts taken to get the price down to the price of a small bungelow ($100-150K).

If you want something that someone put a half of a thought into, you are looking at rapidly inflating price tags, and they still won’t be that good.

I’ve occasionally thought of buying one to haul cars to the track (especially when out of state), but I’d rather take on someone else’s project car, or spend a crapton of money fixing the Audi S4 in my garage than consider a used RV.

Plus you can’t really tow anything with one, until you go up to full-on Freightliner bus chassis, and you may as well say “If you have to ask about the price, you can’t afford it.”

Some of the buses I’ve seen would make a Rolls-Royce Phantom VIII look cheap.

PartyPooper2012 > Mercedes Streeter 05/29/2018 at 13:08

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My conclusion is that it only makes sense to own one of these is if you are retired or have a lot of free time.

If you are not using it, you have to air it out, maintain battery and tires and if you forget, fold it up and put it in the trash.

I will rent one if I ever decide to be THAT adventurous.

Thanks for that info tho. You seem like you have lots of experience in this world..

PartyPooper2012 > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 05/29/2018 at 13:22

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That is a good indication of crapometer - Rather be fixing Audi S4 in own garage than own one of these.

I don’t need a bus size RV. It’s just wife and I with two dogs. We will get a pet friendly hotel room. That is all.

Thanks

PartyPooper2012 > 7:07 05/29/2018 at 13:31

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Thanks. I will probably rent one just to get the experience and see what a working one should look like, but I most likely won’t be buying one for myself. Build quality on average is crap, costs on average are high and maintenance requirements seem more than 25 year old lady in Manhattan.

By the way, we drove the other way last summer - montana, idaho utah.

Some of the scenery wasn’t anything to write home about, but overall road trip was educational and fun at the same time. The simple fact that you can turn the steering wheel and go see some historic mark is worth more than the money you save by flying.

Definitely saw this guy in the middle of nowhere Idaho and did stop

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 14:18

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If it makes any difference, it’s a B5 S4, so guaranteed engine pulls for turbo replacement. :)

Along with general late 90s VW crappy electrics.

shop-teacher > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 19:21

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That is a smart move. Spend the chunk of change that it takes to rent one, and have the experience. Then drop it off and wash your hands of it.

shop-teacher > PartyPooper2012 05/29/2018 at 19:24

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Some of those have what’s called a cassette toilet. It’s a small self contained unit. Some pop-up campers have them too.