What in the name of everything that is Holy? Hot take to beat all Hot Takes

"KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time" (kngt) 04/16/2018 at 16:38 • Filed to: Honda Accord, hot take, Honda

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“The Accord V6 Coupe Is the Last Real American Muscle Car- This is not a joke.”

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Just came across this. WTF is he smoking? He’s worse than the 2 Door SUV guy on FP.

My bird IS the word > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:46

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technically the 1981 camaro was.

v6=not a muscle car. If you want to say made in america, how much in america? the engine? ok, fine. that accord guaranteed is not 100% american parts so it doesn’t count under that logic.

Clickbait is clickbait.

Future next gen S2000 owner > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:48

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If the definition of a muscle car is an average/non-sporty vehicle stuffed with a big motor, then kinda, maybe, ish.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > My bird IS the word 04/16/2018 at 16:48

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Even the Accord forums are calling him out. And he writes for TTAC, Of course!

For Sweden > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:48

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Jack Baruth

Not eve once

Future next gen S2000 owner > My bird IS the word 04/16/2018 at 16:49

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The GNX disagrees. As well at the TTA.

Spanfeller is a twat > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:50

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Sorry, is this not a muscle car?

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Future next gen S2000 owner 04/16/2018 at 16:51

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Only in a universe where the Accord is RWD and the Challenger/Charger, Camaro, Mustang all don’t even exist.

nFamousCJ - Keeper of Stringbean, Gengars and a Deezul > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:52

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KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Spanfeller is a twat 04/16/2018 at 16:52

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“You see its engine made in Mexico and assembled in Canada(eh)so it’s not a real ‘Murrican muscle car that bleeds red white and blue But this FWD Japanese family coupe is one, because reasons”

Wacko > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:53

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oh crap does that mean TheHondaBro was right?

please don’t let him see this......

Spanfeller is a twat > Future next gen S2000 owner 04/16/2018 at 16:53

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Shut up, I’m imagining a GNX to calm my nerves from all the horrible hot takes of late

Yes...

Spanfeller is a twat > My bird IS the word 04/16/2018 at 16:53

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What is wrong with designed in America? we wouldn’t be building Mopars if it wasn’t for some american engineer in Dearborn.

Urambo Tauro > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:53

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I’m not even gonna touch this one. I still haven’t made up my mind on what the true definition for muscle car should be.

Spanfeller is a twat > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:54

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Well that’s very stupid. Xenophobe take is xenophobe.

WilliamsSW > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:54

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dogisbadob > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:54

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Then the Mustang counts, since it’s an Accord coupe, right? :p

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:54

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And he still reminds everyone how much of a “master” of the english language he is. TTAC never again.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Urambo Tauro 04/16/2018 at 16:55

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Whatever it maybe the Accord V6 is not, IMO and I think many would agree.

crowmolly > My bird IS the word 04/16/2018 at 16:55

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We getting technical in here? Cool.

The F body twins were pony cars. Not muscle cars.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Spanfeller is a twat 04/16/2018 at 16:56

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“I have made up my mind on this hot take so how do I twist logic and find ‘facts’ that help support my statement?” basically.

lone_liberal > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:57

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I knew it was by Baruth (a V6 Accord owner) before I looked.

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:57

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Not a hot take. It’s the truth.

Spanfeller is a twat > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 16:59

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I mean, I get it if some Americans dislike us (after all, some think they remember Alamo) But what the fuck did Canada do?



It is a very stupid hot take, but it does makes you think, what makes you, you? The contents of your character, or the cells in your body and geography?

Neil drives a beetle and a fancy beetle > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 17:01

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That’s some straight up classic jack baruth mumbling.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > dogisbadob 04/16/2018 at 17:05

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Nissan Altima V6 Coupe. The last Japanese Muscle Car- This is not a Joke.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > lone_liberal 04/16/2018 at 17:09

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He has 2 apparently

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2018/04/ask-jack-seriously-going-take-whole-accord-thing/

Full text if you don’t want to give them the clicks, I hope it’s not our resident e90M3 asking this question LOL

A Mystery TTAC Reader asks:

Jack, I know that you know both BMW and Honda from personal ownership, and you share the need to cart a kid or two around in a daily driver that can also reward driver skill. Here is the issue I have, as a list of competing facts:

1. I care too much about my 2011 E90 M3 ZCP. I had the car paint color-corrected, CQuartz ceramic coated, and the whole front clip covered in 3M film. This is not a humblebrag, it’s a PROBLEM. I worry about where I park. I inspect it when I return to the car. I don’t drive it at all on poor weather days – even rainy days – instead choosing an old backup car that I won’t sell. This annoys my wife to no end.

2. I need one car that can do all things. No, I’m not going to the track, so maybe not ALL things. I mean that I can’t keep the BMW as a garage queen.

3. The M3 is wonderful on a two-lane curvy road by myself, but just too coarse for all of the other parts of life – sitting in traffic, going to the grocery store, out to a nice dinner, etc. I’m not in my twenties or even thirties anymore, and the reward of a properly rev-matched downshift is frequently eclipsed by the desire for a more compliant suspension. Even with the dampers in “Comfort” mode, the Competition Package E90 feels every bump of our decaying infrastructure. I thought I wanted a road-racer that was “good enough” at being a daily driver, but maybe I was spoiled by all of those years that I had a new company car every six months to a year.

4. I can currently sell the BMW for almost enough to buy a brand-new Honda Accord 2.0T Touring with cash. I wonder whether the 10-speed is that good at picking the right gear on corner entrance, and the HUD & ACC/Low-Speed Following features look great from here.

5. If I keep the BMW for five years but take good care of it, it will likely flatten in value and possibly mildly appreciate, as each of the Competition Package M3 generations did before it. This means I could drive/enjoy the car between now and then for a low amortized cost.

So, you can see where this is going. BMW E90 M3 versus 10th Gen Honda Accord? I can’t be the only one seriously considering this. It’s not so crazy, as you can attest to having driven both yourself. So, my “Ask Jack” question is, “Can a driver who loves analog experiences be happy in the new Accord?”, or maybe it should be “Am I an idiot for considering giving up something special for something ordinary, no matter how nice?”

This is a tough one, but let’s jump in with both feet. Any V8 M3 will eventually be a valuable car along the lines of the Porsche 993 and 964. Stick-shift ones doubly so. Factory ZCP cars triply so. Mint-condition stick-shift ZCP cars… well, you get the idea. This is not a car that has any more depreciation in its future.

Which is what makes the idea of swapping it for any new Accord so worrisome. Sure, a stick-shift 2.0T touring is a nice car. But it’s fundamentally a commodity vehicle with at least four years of production ahead of it.

If you have to choose between them, stick with the car you have now. Even if you decided to treat it like I treat my Silverado starting tomorrow — no wash, no wax, driven in bad weather, and so on — you would still come out ahead financially. Plus you’d be driving a car that is miles ahead of today’s M3. You would come to regret buying an Accord, and I think that regret would arrive sooner rather than later.

Or here’s another alternative: You get rid of your backup car and lease an Accord EX for $249/month or whatever they’re going for now. You use it on everything but sunny days and you let the M3 out of the garage as often as you can. No worries, no regrets.

Now for my heartfelt advice: Sell the backup car and buy a 6-speed Accord V6 coupe for $20k or whatever a good one costs now. Enjoy a car that does 95% of what the M3 does without any worries about mileage, wear, or tear. On the days you need that last five percent, fire up your Comp Package Bimmer and let it rip. Just be careful. It’s a short trip down the Accord rabbit hole. One minute you’re just idly shopping for a family car; four years later, you’ve signed up to run World Challenge.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > crowmolly 04/16/2018 at 17:10

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I know the tradition is against me, but I’ve always held pony cars when V8-equipped to qualify for a brevet promotion... because while they’re bespoke platforms, they’re shared architecture with platforms that come in both compact and often midsize . The first gen Mustang suffered size inflation which more or less transformed it into a *Fairlane* two-door instead of a *Falcon* (since the two were nearly the same apart from air space), and the Falcon and X cars were family cars like the family cars that all traditional muscle cars came from anyway.

With as schizophrenic as the relationship was between sizing slot and actual physical qualities , with US compacts often being effectively midsize, the MUST BE MIDSIZE PLATFORM restriction always rang a little false to me. Hell, I looked up a few years back some of the measurements involved, and with F-bodies and Mustangs being at times bigger than their parent companies had been shipping as “midsize” even within a five year period, any attempts at being “technically correct” fall on poor definition.

My bird IS the word > crowmolly 04/16/2018 at 17:12

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We end up getting into venn diagram shit to words that don’t necessarily have good definitions.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/muscle%20car?utm_campaign=sd&utm_medium=serp&utm_source=jsonld

My bird IS the word > Spanfeller is a twat 04/16/2018 at 17:14

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nothing. the article seems to have some problem with a car that isn’t completely made in the usa which basically doesn’t exist anymore.

Chariotoflove > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 17:15

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Clickbait title is clickbait.

Spanfeller is a twat > My bird IS the word 04/16/2018 at 17:16

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NAFTA baby, it’s bad for many, but it did make North America a more competitive region for industry, design, etc, if it wasn’t for it, who knows if Dodge would even be around to make a Challenger

crowmolly > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/16/2018 at 17:16

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It is, I’m being a prick.

The “official” definition of midsize 2 door car with a large v8 excludes certain cars that should otherwise be a slam dunk. Like a Dart GTS or 396 Nova.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Chariotoflove 04/16/2018 at 17:17

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Standard Operating Procedure for a TTAC writer

My bird IS the word > Future next gen S2000 owner 04/16/2018 at 17:18

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I will accept turbo v6s because they have proven competitive.

My bird IS the word > Spanfeller is a twat 04/16/2018 at 17:19

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It’s just the way the world (and business) works now. nothing really that bad about it, it financially ties countries and prevents war.

Spanfeller is a twat > My bird IS the word 04/16/2018 at 17:22

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Well. It’s how good American Foreign policy looks like, League of Nations (before congress cockblocked) and Marshall plan did basically the same and in the end it probably caused the EU, which meant more european countries could become part of NATO, which in the end did sort of made the world chill, north of Gibraltar that is...

Future next gen S2000 owner > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 17:25

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A muscle car is defined by its engine, not its driven wheels. Big motor in a small car is a muscle car.

Challenger/Camaro/Mustang are all pony cars.

My bird IS the word > Spanfeller is a twat 04/16/2018 at 17:59

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Thats cause we (the civilized world) outsourced being poor to third world countries. Cause somebody’s gotta be poor.

Spanfeller is a twat > My bird IS the word 04/16/2018 at 18:08

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We develop our strengths, what you guys see as trash we see as gold, and as pathetic as that sounds, you guys underestimate how much good NAFTA did in my neck of the woods. It could’ve been WAY better had it been a policy focused on workers and efficiency and not corporations and profit margins. It would’ve been amazing for them anyway.

McMike > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 18:23

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 The “muscle coupe” thing was (I think) started by Dodge with that V6 AWD Challenger. They called it “the world’s first awd muscle car”

I will accept the Accord being a muscle car/coupe as long as it is a jab at Dodge.

PS9 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 18:24

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Yes it is. Just look at it.

PS9 > Future next gen S2000 owner 04/16/2018 at 18:27

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3.5L =/= Big.

PS9 > KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time 04/16/2018 at 18:28

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What a steaming load of horseshit.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 04/16/2018 at 19:41

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Dearborn = Ford.

FCA (Chrysler) = Auburn Hills.

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 04/16/2018 at 19:55

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TIL

jimz > Urambo Tauro 04/16/2018 at 19:58

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“muscle car” really is an obsolete term. back when they first formed in the mid ‘60s, most of the domestics had one car line each; an intermediate/full size car available in 2/4 door hardtop, 2/4 door sedan, and wagon. Chevy didn’t have anything smaller than their full-size car until the Corvair (and then the Chevy II/Nova which killed the Corvair.) De Lorean kicked the segment off by giving GM brass the bird finger and stuffing a hot 389 in the Tempest to create the GTO. Everyone else followed suit, with Ford stuffing ever hotter 390s, 427s, 428s, 429s (only Ford would have three separate engines of similar displacement) into Fairlanes, and Chrysler cramming 440s and Hemis into Chargers, Belvederes, and Coronets.

honestly, the only real modern cars which (in my opinion) are true homages to the muscle car era are the SRT and Hellcat Charger and Challenger. ‘cos we live in an age where a 6,000 lb Lincoln Navigator could smoke a factory stock 1969 Super Bee 440 6-bbl off the line.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 04/16/2018 at 20:07

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I’ve worked in both of those locations (one currently) and also at the now abandoned Plymouth Road Office Complex in Detroit. That was a really neat old building (built in 1929.) Albert Kahn designed, with mahogany walls and marble staircases in the lobby. When I was there it was still called JTE for “Jeep/Truck Engineering.” it was AMC’s old engineering center which was Kelvinator before that; Nash-Kelvinator merged with Hudson in the 1950s to form American Motors Corp, and then it became Chrysler’s after they bought AMC. It got ditched somewhere between when Daimler sold Chrysler off (after ransacking it) and Cerberus taking it into BK.

I’m utterly disgusted how this building was left to rot and be ravaged by scrappers.

Spanfeller is a twat > jimz 04/16/2018 at 20:19

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It is a shame they did that, it looks like a timeless building by now and it should’ve been respected

About AMC

I’m doing some research on AMC for an article about VAM; a “Mexican car maker” that bought knock down kits from AMC and assembled a great deal of cars here to avoid import tax, including countless jeeps

Rumor has it that VAM engineers helped design the famous reverse flow head AMC engines, and after making the VAM Lerma (first non derivative car they made) they got a congratulatory letter from AMCs vice president.

Shamefully the only information left about VAM are some far fetched articles and the online community who claimed their first factory made 10,000 cars a year.... Which is insane for 60s Mexico.

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > Future next gen S2000 owner 04/16/2018 at 20:20

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I fully agree they are Pony cars but the manufacturers themselves use the term Muscle car very often for these, and specifically V8 pony cars are muscle cars by the dictionary definition  

As for the Accord, even if you ignore the driven wheels (Although generally RWD+V8 cars are considered Muscle with some exceptions according to multiple industry sources- Just first page results on Google) 3.5 V6 is not that big because then even a 3.7L v6 G37 Coupe/370Z 3.8L Genesis Coupe are better examples of “Muscle” cars because they have some of the biggest modern V6s and they’re also RWD to boot. IIf the Accord had a V8 then that’s a different discussion. This Baruth guy is just using very broad strokes and taking a lot of liberties with the definition to make his point.

Carbon Fiber Sasquatch > Urambo Tauro 04/16/2018 at 20:33

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Laughably large engine in an otherwise non sporty car has always been mine. Bonus points if it’s non luxury.

jimz > Spanfeller is a twat 04/16/2018 at 20:33

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here’s some of the inside of the building:

I got “hazed” a bit when I started; my first week there I had to pull a vehicle into the electrical garage for testing. Being an old-style concrete building, it had pillars all over the place.

let’s just say a building from 1929 was not designed to make it easy for a Ram 3500 Crew Cab duallie to get through easily.

Derpwagon > Spanfeller is a twat 04/16/2018 at 22:53

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That is a very flattering angle.