Little work on the Fiat

"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228) 02/28/2018 at 16:14 • Filed to: None

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One of the things that’s pretty critical on Uno Turbo swaps into X1/9s is keeping the oil cool, and of course it doesn’t have an oil cooler.

Thought I’d go big or go home with a 19-row one in case I end up chasing big power. Only place it’ll fit is with the cooler lines sticking up through the boot floor. Luckily there’s some sound deadening and a second floor panel to the boot so with a little modification it should be a rather neat install :)

The grille you can see exits out of the back of the rear valence. I’m assuming there’s airflow there otherwise what would the point in the grille be? Banking on this car being made before designers really got into fake vents...

Darkbrador > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 02/28/2018 at 16:55

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Banking on 70s Fiat engineers is a risky bet ... how ‘bout a fan to help the airflow ?

winterlegacy, here 'till the end > Darkbrador 02/28/2018 at 17:10

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You can never go wrong with a fan. Drill a hole somewhere to add a simple switch to turn it on/off, or get fancy and see if you can add a thermometer of some sort to turn the fan on when the oil gets a little toasty.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Darkbrador 02/28/2018 at 17:54

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Nah Fiat engineers of the 70s generally knew what they were doing. Or the guys in charge of the oily bits at least. The old twincam’s a masterpiece, and they were the first folks to do end-on gearboxes like every FWD car made today.

70s Fiat was on a roll until their recycled-dishwasher steel, dodgy electrics and BL-style workforce unrest let them down ;)

davedave1111 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/01/2018 at 16:35

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“I’m assuming there’s airflow there otherwise what would the point in the grille be?”

On the one hand, the engine cover’s not vented, so any airflow from those intake scoops must come out somewhere. On the other hand, the MGF’s engine ‘intake’ vents are actually sited in an area of aerodynamically induced low pressure - but the X1/9 has those little scoops, and they must do something, right?

Can you get someone on roller skates to hang on behind and tell you if there’s any airflow there? ;)

AuthiCooper1300 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/08/2018 at 06:38

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Certainly. Someone called Aurelio Lampredi used to be in charge of engine development! The famous bialbero (and the single-cam that first appeared on the 128) were his.

(One might even argue that during the 60s-70s period all of Italy was on a roll. Remember Olivetti?)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > AuthiCooper1300 03/08/2018 at 06:49

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Yeah Lampredi was a genius :) designed the bigger of the two varieties of Ferrari V12s too, and headed up Abarth for ten-ish years.

Between Lampredi, Vittorio Jano (although he was Hungarian) and Gioacchino Colombo the Italians were pretty much untouchable for jewel-like engine designs at the time :)

Just read up about Olivetti. You’re right! All of Italy was on a roll.

Actually, I wonder if it’s basically all of Europe’s technology and manufacturing industries. 60s-70s were a golden age for British car design too (tailing off in the 70s), and the Germans were making some of their all-time hits like the 2002 and bulletproof Mercs.

AuthiCooper1300 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/08/2018 at 07:08

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Lampredi was so keen to have lots of torque in his Ferrari engines he even designed and (unsuccessfully) tested a twin-cylinder! And there is a Ferrari four-pot of his (the 500).

Well, everybody was doing more or less OK in the 60s, but in Italy not just the industry was doing well: living standards simply skyrocketed.

Back to your icsunonuove ... are you planning on fitting an oil temp gauge? Driving on the motorway on a cold day in fifth gear... at a sedate pace could actually cool down the oil too much (or make it more difficult to reach proper operating temperature). In those cases you can always block the corner of the grille in front of the cooler, for example. Or you could fit a thermostatic bypass.

I hope your oil cooler never gets machine-gunned with gravel though. A trick in rally 911s was to add two “faucets” and a bypass oil line to the cooler circuit. If the cooler gets shot you isolate it, top up the oil and go on your merry way.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > AuthiCooper1300 03/08/2018 at 07:28

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Interesting. I wonder what the driver behind that was.

It’s got an oil temp gauge but I don’t think it’s actually connected to anything. Certainly doesn’t do anything.

It’ll be fitted with a thermostat yeah (most expensive bit of the setup at £94!). Never really understood the logic of fitting a non-thermostat oil cooler, other than tight pockets. The oil cooler itself is also pretty oversized to future-proof it against potentially upping the power so a thermostat is definitely required.

Hopefully it should be pretty protected where it is, although I will be sure to check it regularly. Maybe a sort of mesh screen placed in front of it might be a good idea if it is getting hit. Some sort of bypass hose I can bolt to the other end of the thermostat in case might be save me getting stranded somewhere.

AuthiCooper1300 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/08/2018 at 07:53

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You mean the 500 engine or the Italian rise to higher standards of living?

The rationale behind a 2.0/2.5 capacity “four” was “instant torque”. It is nice having a sewing machine for an engine, like Colombo’s early designs, but on the twisties you’d be very much at a disadvantage.

Regarding Italy... a situation that has its parallels with Germany’s, for political reasons (or how Japan, Germany and Italy lost the war but “won the peace” – unlike, sadly, the UK)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_economic_miracle

AuthiCooper1300 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/08/2018 at 08:05

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Good call on the thermostat. Except perhaps for Minis in warm countries, a thermostat for the oil cooler is always a must (with Minis it’s simpler and neater to put a muff on the grille, as on 2CVs.).

Pretty sure you have already thought about this... but if you want to overengineer your cooling system I’d start thinking soon about an aluminium radiator –maybe even with a secondary one tucked away wherever you can. A way of moving air in and out of the engine compartment faster would be even more interesting, but not easy to accomplish in an elegant way.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > AuthiCooper1300 03/08/2018 at 08:35

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Yeah an alloy rad will be fitted once I start bumping up the power any further. Maybe with it ducted out the top of the bonnet rather than under the car to reduce front-end lift at speed.

Once that’s done the cooling should be plenty for the power I’m after. You can get quite a bit out of these engines, but the upper reaches take a lot of work. Might get there eventually, but for now 180-200bhp would be an absolute riot. It already is at 130ish :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > AuthiCooper1300 03/08/2018 at 08:51

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More the Italy’s economy thing as I’ve looked into the whole ‘area under the curve’ thing for racing engines :)

What’s interesting about Italy is that it (eventually) wound up on the victorious side so shouldn’t have had so many of the sanctions Germany suffered under (which I’m convinced is what swayed them to plow their intellect into economic rebuilding rather than forbidden military development).

Although, one of the interesting twists and turns in Britain’s post-war history was Charles De Gaulle vetoing Britain’s entry into the developing common market in Europe. That one (actually two separate instances) thing severely impacted Britain’s economy during that time (and is one of the reasons Brexit is such a catastrophically terrible idea).

It was also instrumental in wrecking BMC and later British Leyland. BMC banked on large sales in Europe spurred on by lack of import taxes, and tailored its entire lineup to European tastes (cars like the ADO16 and other sophisticated front-drivers). Then, when CDG vetoed the entry in ‘63 I think they were left with a lineup that was ill-suited to domestic tastes and required larger economies of scale than were capable in the UK to turn a profit.

When we finally entered the common market nearly a decade later, they still tried to forge on with their idea, but a decade of financial losses left them without the money for proper development, leading to cars that were behind the competition instead of well ahead.

The rest is history, beginning with the decline of BL in the 70s.

AuthiCooper1300 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/08/2018 at 09:24

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Extremely interesting take on the decline of BMC/BL. Never thought of that before, or the fact that its more sophisticated offerings were squarely aimed at the Continent. (Not so convinced it hurt so much the rest of Britain who probably still had some “captive” Commonwealth markets overseas, but certainly a idea I plan to look into).

The biggest issue for the UK’s economic decline is very much related to the fact that afer 1945 all that Lend & Lease equipment had to be paid for to the US. Germany, Japan, Italy ultimately received extremely generous loans which allowed them to rebuild their industries from scratch. That meant access to the newest technology and processes; Britain, on the other hand, had to “make do” with whatever they had... before the war, while at the same time trying desperately to raise cash to pay the debt with the US. In Britain, in one form or another, rationing lasted well into the well into the 50s.

As you mention, another important factor for the industrial rise of Germany and Japan was that for a long time they were not allowed to invest on defence, freeing cash for development; an unintended effect was that their best aerospace engineers went (mostly) to the motor industry, instead of being snapped up by the defence sector in general and the military aerospace sector in particular.

Italy is a more complex case because technically they won the war, but they had been on the wrong side for quite a long time. By VE, the country was in tatters anyway. But they did receive huge soft loans, same as Germany and Japan, for obvious geopolitical reasons.

AuthiCooper1300 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/08/2018 at 09:37

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Same idea, right?:

This is how Lancia did it with the Stratos. This picture was taken during one of their first rallies. Later they sported a much more modest grille, of course.

Your spare lives in the rear boot, right? What about narrow alloy spacesaver, à la Integrale? It would lighten the rear end a little (and you would have more space for... parts.)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > AuthiCooper1300 03/08/2018 at 10:22

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Yeah precisely that, although not quite as sizeable.

Spare’s actually in a little cubbyhole behind the driver’s seat. Or, at least, it used to be before I took it out ;)

One of the interesting things we discovered is we think that a lot of manufacturers were telling porky pies with vehicle weights back then. We reckon they were stating kerb weights with empty fuel tanks and no driver. With me in it and a full tank of fuel the supposedly 880kg-ish X1/9 was coming in at 999kg on our scales. The turbo will add a bit of weight, but nowhere near that much.

Will be interesting to find out weights of other cars... 

AuthiCooper1300 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 03/08/2018 at 11:23

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Have a look here:

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/brochures_1988_bertone

Admittedly a very late 1.5 one with the big-ass bumpers but still, peso a vuoto = 920 kg.

Maybe 880 kg is in fact some strange CUNA norm from the 70s and its proper description got “lost in translation”.

*CUNA: Commissione Tecnica di Unificazione nell’Autoveicolo. Well into the 80s fuel consumption of Italian cars would be quoted acording to CUNA standards, for example.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > AuthiCooper1300 03/08/2018 at 11:36

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Yeah that’s the thing. Mine’s a late car that’s been converted into an early one. I whipped the rubber bumpers off my old X1/9 before it got crushed by a tree and they weighed 21kg combined. Still a long way off 999kg (without the spare wheel mind).

They’re definitely not including the driver which was the norm back then, but since 1995 has been mandated for European manufacturers. I’m 68kg, which still puts it at 931kg. Turbo and manifold probably weight 20kg over the stock setup, and the uno turbo brakes at the front will weigh more too.

Still doesn’t all quite add up, although I suppose it could be nickel-and-dimed with stuff like electric window motors as things like that...

Really, it just makes me wonder how accurate my Spitfire’s weight is going to be. Whether it will actually be around the 750kg mark, or whether it’ll end up 100kg heavier. Mostly for genital-measuring purposes against E46 M3s ;)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > AuthiCooper1300 03/08/2018 at 11:46

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Very interesting :)

And yeah, it’s far from the sole contributor to the UK’s economic decline in the 70s, but it’s a major reason why our economy suffered in comparison to France, despite ours having greater access to markets further abroad.